When to call on a Cardinal?

[JReducation]

Someone asked if the priest willing to say the Mass is a Jesuit. Yes, he is. He also currently says the TLM in the Jesuit Residence’s chapel on occasion.

This is called the conventual mass. As superior I have the right and authority to limit where my priests celebrate the EF. I can restrict them to the conventual mass or I can restrict them to celebrate it only for the laity, but never for the community or I can choose to say that they can only use Latin on certain holy days. That’s what Summorum Pontificum refers to when it uses the terms major superiors and proper law. It’s referring to the laws that govern the religious community, which the major superior implements and only the general chapter can interpret. The same with Vatican II. It says that Latin must retain its place of primacy. But it does not say that my religious community has to be the one to protect the primacy of Latin. As superior, I have the power and freedom to decide that this is best left to monastic communities. Unless there is a law that all religious communities must protect the primacy of Latin, no superior is bound to do so.

The person at the top can say to this priest that he can celebrate the EF in the community chapel or the OF in Latin, but not in the student’s chapel. Canon Law gives the person in authority this power and said power cannot be challenged by the laity. Only the general chapter has the authority to challenge it.

I’m not quite sure I follow, but that’s probably because I don’t quite understand what pastoral need is and how I would go about demonstrating it. Can you (or anyone knowledgeable in this area) explain this more?

Thanks again for your help Brother.

When we speak of pastoral need, we mean that which the soul needs. In this case, if I were the superior who has to give the priest permission, I would deny it because the request is a whim. So what if you prefer Latin. We don’t live in Rome. I’m using a dramatic example here. I’m not that nasty.

However, if you came to me and said that the mass in Latin is helpful to your spiritual life because . . . then it’s no longer a whim. As a minister, I have a moral obligation to seriously and prayerfully consider your request. I may still turn you down, because I have reasons that trump your spiritual needs. However there is a guarantee that I will prayerfully and sincerely consider it.

For example, I may turn you down because the priest in question has two masses on a Sunday and this Latin mass would be a third, which is not allowed unless it can’t be helped. I may turn you down because putting a Latin mass on the schedule for 50 people displaces 500 people who would have attended an English mass at that time. I may turn you down because at the community chapter the vote was 3 to 1 never to celebrate a mass in Latin for the laity. That’s unlikely, but if there were such a vote, that would force the superior’s hand, no matter how sympathetic he feels toward your spiritual need.

In any case, the fact that you are presenting a spiritual benefit is very different from a preference. This forces me to have to consider it. Your chances of getting what you requested are improving. As an educator, I don’t have to accommodate to your preferences. I’m there to run a school, not to please you. But as a religious, I have to place your spiritual welfare above your education. That’s a pastoral need. Do you see what I’m saying?

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

 

[marci]

Is the order required to adhear to the magisterium? If they wanted to perform marriage ceremonies for same sex or divorced persons, would they be able to?

When the pope speaks infallibly on a subject, must they follow?

 

[Melchior_1]

Is the order required to adhear to the magisterium? If they wanted to perform marriage ceremonies for same sex or divorced persons, would they be able to?

No.

The Right of Exemption is applicable towards several portions of Canon Law, and several areas of discipline/customs.

When the pope speaks infallibly on a subject, must they follow?

Yes, because that’s doctrine.

The language used at Mass and the Form of Mass being changed, are both disciplines.

 

[marci]

No.

The Right of Exemption is applicable towards several portions of Canon Law, and several areas of discipline/customs.

Yes, because that’s doctrine.

The language used at Mass and the Form of Mass being changed, are both disciplines.

Thanks!

 

[JReducation]

Is the order required to adhear to the magisterium? If they wanted to perform marriage ceremonies for same sex or divorced persons, would they be able to?

When the pope speaks infallibly on a subject, must they follow?

No one is exempt from dogma and moral law. This is the same for every Catholic.

The Right of Exemption is applicable to many male religious. It means that certain laws do not apply to them. It also means that they are not subject to the authority of any bishop. If they are males, the major superior is their ordinary with all of the powers of a bishop, but is never a bishop. Bishops may not set foot in their houses or on their property without permission from the superior of the house. The lay faithful have to comply with the precept of the Church and financially support their apostolic work, but may never interfere in their affairs. This was a major problem a long time ago. Many wealthy families would donate to a religious community and then make demands on the community. There was a sense of entitlement.

In some situations it means that if the religious community agrees to enter a diocese to take over a parish or some other work that belongs to the diocese, the bishop and the superior reach certain agreements. One of the requirements is that the diocese cannot impose anything on the religious community that is contrary to its charism, mission or the wishes of the superior. For example, if Father X is a Jesuit and preaches that birth control is OK on the fourth Sunday of the month (I’m being silly) and you run out and call the bishop, the bishop can say that Father X cannot preach in his diocese. He cannot remove Father X from his diocese. Only the superior can do that.

Father X can remain in the diocese and teach, care for the sick and the poor or whatever the superior decides. But the bishop cannot decide that Father X is a heretic and tell him to get out of Dodge City. Father X may be a priest, but he’s first a religious and that’s a line that the bishop and the laity cannot cross. Father X has rights that other people don’t have. One of them is the right to be governed by his superior and no one else.

This is why I always ask why is it that Catholics who have religious in their parishes attend a Sunday mass but it never occurs to them to even ask who is the superior. Some people assume that the pastor is automatically the superior. This is true 9/10 times. But if the superior is not a priest, he can’t be the pastor. In that case, the pastor answers to a superior who is a brother. That’s the person to whom you want to speak AFTER you have spoken to the priest who has caused you to be disturbed.

If the community is of diocesan right, then it does not have the right of exemption. The bishop can certainly intervene. If it’s of Pontifical Right only the pope can intervene. Popes make it a habit of never getting involved in the affairs of religious unless they are of epic proportions.

Here is something to remember. What you and I may consider a problem of epic proportions, to a pope who is looking at a worldwide Church with 23 sui iuris Churches and two billion Catholics, this may be a nuisance and not a problem of epic proportions. He may just never deal with it, but allow it to take care of itself or ask someone beneath him to look into it.

I always say that very often our world only goes as far as that with which we are familiar. The more you know, the larger your world. Problems take on a perspective proportionate to the size of your world.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

 

[Cat]

This is just some “motherly” advice for the OP, based on the experience of me and my husband way back when we were in college, and also on the experiences of my two daughters who recently completed their college degrees.

It is GOOD to get off campus!

Many times, college kids tend to sequester themselves on or near campus, often because they don’t have transportation.

This sequestering leads to a very narrow point of view of humanity. All you see is college students and professors and administrators, along with a few lunch ladies and janitors. And of course, every bartender and barhop within a mile radius of the college, along with all the Starbucks’s employees and employees of other coffee shoppes near the college!

College students seldom see little children, or teenagers or old people. And they seldom see anyone who is not associated in some way with “college” and campus life.

That’s why I say that it’s GOOD to get off campus! Go to St. John Cantius–there is plenty of bus transportation in Chicago. You will see families with little ones and babies–good! You will see teenagers and old people and people of your parents’ ages. It’s awesome!

And all of these people will have rich lives that have nothing whatsoever to do with your college, and that’s awesome.

It really broadens your perspective and your education to experience “life off campus.”

Hopefully you can get involved in the parish life. Hopefully the parish has traditions and socials and events that are unique to their parish (check it out!–see if they have a turkey dinner in November–supposedly the Turkey Dinner at St. Mary’s Catholic Church in Pecatonica, Illinois is legendary in it sheer deliciousness, and maybe this Chicago parish also has a delicious dinner that will give you a nice change from college food!!).

Godspeed to you!

 

[spartan_cop]

Thanks for the responses everyone.

I erred when I said we are “demanding” our Mass. What I should have said was we are petitioning for a redress of grievances and for permission to go forward with this Latin Mass. Why the OF instead of the EF? I felt that the people in charge would be more accepting to the OF because it’s the same Mass that is currently said in the chapel but we want it in Latin instead of English.

Some posters have pointed out that we (the petitioners) may be unreasonable asking for a Latin Mass when there are other options for us to go to one, even if they are off campus. But I would say that we are not being unreasonable. After all, as spartan_cop has pointed out, the University does permit multiple forms of worship within the chapel, almost all of which is of a liberal tilt. We are petitioning for an additional Mass to be added to the schedule which we feel would not be burdensome given the situation (that we have all the materials, there are vast swaths of free time the chapel is available, and we even have a priest willing and ready to say the Mass). The Campus Ministry’s denial of our request felt more like liberal ideology getting in the way of spiritual decisions rather than true legitimate concerns. If liberals can have their forms of worship on campus, why can’t conservatives? I would understand their decision if we truly were putting undue burdens on Campus Ministry such that they could not meet our request at this time, but as the facts stand that is just not the case. The question then becomes “why can’t we have this form of the Mass?” instead of “why should we be barred from this form of the Mass?” Campus Ministry has not answered that question to my or my colleague’s satisfaction and we therefore plan on continuing this push.

Last thing I wanted to clear up: one of the first posters thought that Cardinal George may not have jurisdiction over Loyola. As far as I know Cardinal George does indeed have jurisdiction because of his role as superintendent of Catholic schools in Chicago. Therefore his jurisdiction extends to Loyola. Can someone correct me if I’m wrong?

I also wanted to add that someone stated that St. John Cantious is only 9 miles away. When you live in the city that’s really far especially if you don’t have a car. Public transportation takes forever especially during winter. If you do have a car then it’s hard to find parking. Trust me I know, and I know the administration very well, unfortunately. As the OP as put it they tend to have very liberal/unorthodox mentality of running things. Sadly, CM falls under that umbrella as well.

 

[spartan_cop]

Someone asked if the priest willing to say the Mass is a Jesuit. Yes, he is. He also currently says the TLM in the Jesuit Residence’s chapel on occasion.

I’m not quite sure I follow, but that’s probably because I don’t quite understand what pastoral need is and how I would go about demonstrating it. Can you (or anyone knowledgeable in this area) explain this more?

Thanks again for your help Brother.

This is theology/philosophy talk, and he’s right. If you bring this type of talk to the table you might have a better chance. You have to bring good theological arguments why Latin should be brought in. What does it bring to the community? The preference argument won’t work as you well know. I am majoring in theology so I have some idea

 

[Inego_de_Loyola]

Is there any update?

 

[coolduude]

Is there any update?

Unfortunately, no. I haven’t had the time to write a letter laying out the case for pastoral need so it’s all on hold for now. Perhaps next semester I’ll take up the struggle again.