When to Speak Up in Class

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Hi CAF,

I am currently taking a required class called “Modern Social Problems” through my local college. The college is very liberal itself, and my professor is very extreme, so I knew I’d have an interesting time in the class. Nevertheless, I was ready to use it as an experience to grow, discuss controversial topics with people of conflicting opinions, and learn something new.

My first impression of my teacher was not a good one. The first thing she said to us were extremely inappropriate things. She also used a lot of unprofessional language/profanity. However, after the second class, I noticed a couple things…

Firstly, she flipped off her supervisor who requires that a final be given in the class. Secondly, she continually belittles and hates on America. She talks about how it is a terrible place, how all Americas are stupid, how she dislikes it greatly (she is an American). And third, she said that she found the American flag to be incredibly ugly. I am not just reading into her words, she said that exactly. As an American, I found that completely inappropriate and unpatriotic. I know all people are entitled to their own opinion on how the American flag looks (I suppose some people aren’t a fan of red, white, and blue?), but stating that it is ugly with so much disgust as she did was insulting to all the people who fought and died for it!

My question is, is there anything I should do? At what point is is appropriate to speak up? She states things in the classroom that are not a matter of political beliefs (whether I agree or disagree), but a matter of simple statements that are unpatriotic as Americans (ex: the flag is ugly).

Thank you for your time! God bless!
 
There is likely little you can do directly without causing your grade to go into the tank. I know these types and they are petty and vindictive. Video tape the class (if you can do it discreetly) and make her a star on YouTube. That might generate some heat on her if it goes viral.
 
SnowAngels said:
Hi CAF,

I am currently taking a required class called “Modern Social Problems” through my local college. The college is very liberal itself, and my professor is very extreme, so I knew I’d have an interesting time in the class. Nevertheless, I was ready to use it as an experience to grow, discuss controversial topics with people of conflicting opinions, and learn something new.

My first impression of my teacher was not a good one. The first thing she said to us were extremely inappropriate things. She also used a lot of unprofessional language/profanity. However, after the second class, I noticed a couple things…

Firstly, she flipped off her supervisor who requires that a final be given in the class. Secondly, she continually belittles and hates on America. She talks about how it is a terrible place, how all Americas are stupid, how she dislikes it greatly (she is an American). And third, she said that she found the American flag to be incredibly ugly. I am not just reading into her words, she said that exactly. As an American, I found that completely inappropriate and unpatriotic. I know all people are entitled to their own opinion on how the American flag looks (I suppose some people aren’t a fan of red, white, and blue?), but stating that it is ugly with so much disgust as she did was insulting to all the people who fought and died for it!

My question is, is there anything I should do? At what point is is appropriate to speak up? She states things in the classroom that are not a matter of political beliefs (whether I agree or disagree), but a matter of simple statements that are unpatriotic as Americans (ex: the flag is ugly).

Thank you for your time! God bless!
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This is a perfect question for your college advisor. Likely this is not the first time someone has brought this to their attention.
Is she the only person teaching this course?
Maybe speak to the Dean of Students as well. They might have some advice fro you that would be helpful without sounding like a snitch. You have legitimate concerns, but I have to tell you…such is college life. Sometimes you get wonderful, superb teachers, and then sometimes they purposely like to “stir the pot” to see what students will debate/discuss. offer in response.
I’m sure the many college professors on CAF will have something to say…I’ll be interested to see what they post.
 
What I would personally do is pass the class first, and then if you feel necessary, lodge any complaints.

As people here have told you, if you directly confront this instructor, you will fail.
 
SnowAngels said:
Hi CAF,

I am currently taking a required class called “Modern Social Problems” through my local college. The college is very liberal itself, and my professor is very extreme, so I knew I’d have an interesting time in the class. Nevertheless, I was ready to use it as an experience to grow, discuss controversial topics with people of conflicting opinions, and learn something new.

My first impression of my teacher was not a good one. The first thing she said to us were extremely inappropriate things. She also used a lot of unprofessional language/profanity. However, after the second class, I noticed a couple things…

Firstly, she flipped off her supervisor who requires that a final be given in the class. Secondly, she continually belittles and hates on America. She talks about how it is a terrible place, how all Americas are stupid, how she dislikes it greatly (she is an American). And third, she said that she found the American flag to be incredibly ugly. I am not just reading into her words, she said that exactly. As an American, I found that completely inappropriate and unpatriotic. I know all people are entitled to their own opinion on how the American flag looks (I suppose some people aren’t a fan of red, white, and blue?), but stating that it is ugly with so much disgust as she did was insulting to all the people who fought and died for it!

My question is, is there anything I should do? At what point is is appropriate to speak up? She states things in the classroom that are not a matter of political beliefs (whether I agree or disagree), but a matter of simple statements that are unpatriotic as Americans (ex: the flag is ugly).

Thank you for your time! God bless!
Click to expand...
If discussion is invited in the class on the topics on which she is speaking, then speak up. Granted, whether or not the American flag is ugly is really just her opinion, and calling her unpatriotic because she doesn’t like the flag and you do seems a bit of a stretch. The symbol of the flag is more meaningful than its actual design. However, its design was (as I understand it) quite imbued with meaning, so it might be worth pointing that out and asking her what she feels would have been a better choice. Again, this is all assuming that discussion is invited.

If, however, discussion is not invited and the professor is simply using her classroom as her soapbox, then I don’t recommend challenging her in class. You’ll look belligerent, and ultimately, you’ll lose because you can’t win an argument with that kind of power imbalance. It might be difficult to bite your tongue, but do it. Believe me, I’ve been there - I once had a law school professor look at our class and state unequivocally that she did not believe a devout Christian acting according to their beliefs would ever be able to pass the “reasonable person’s test”. I kept my mouth shut, and then allowed myself to have my say during the semester-end teaching reviews instead.
 
Here is what you can do.
  1. If it is not too late drop the class and wait for it to appear on the schedule later on. Also file a written complaint through your academic adviser, the dean of students and the appropriate department head.
  2. If dropping is not an option file a written complaint with your academic adviser, the department head, and the dean of students.
  3. Be brutally honest in any post course professor evaluation.
  4. If possible record unprofessional conduct as it occurs in class.
 
Thank you all for your responses!

@CthgeDelendaEst, I can imagine she wouldn’t appreciate being put on YouTube either!

@pianistclare, I don’t have a personal college advisor. I wonder if my community college does…She is not the only person teaching the course, but after researching the teachers and the reviews students have made on them, she is the one that my sister and I determined to be the best choice. I have definitely experienced that! I’ve had amazing and not-so-amazing teachers!

@Micosil, I was considering doing exactly that. First pass, then go to the Dean.

@casslean, she certainly doesn’t mind people speaking up at all, but I’m not sure she encourages discussion. In this case, I wasn’t sure what to say so I said nothing. Unfortunately, there are no teacher reviews for the summer sessions. :confused:

@Blue_Goose, thank you for your suggestions! I am not going to drop the class, but I will start recording anything disturbing.
 
Switch classes. If they say you lose money, then talk to the Dean.

This kind of abuse of undergrads happens too often. It needs NEEDS real people to push back.
 
As for recording conversations- you might want to check whether it is legal to record in class first.
 
Even the smallest school has a student advocate or a Dean of students. .
Ask at the Admin building.
 
I would not say too much until the final grades were in. At that time, I would write a letter expressing my concerns to the department chairman, and the dean. i would not mention religion or the New Testament or Jesus in my letter, since the dean might think you are a kook. I would say that her teaching methods are discriminatory, unfair, and slanted toward a sick view of society or something like that, keeping religious symbols out of the letter, but p(name removed by moderator)ointing your serious objections to what she had taught.
 
Tomdstone said:
I would not say too much until the final grades were in. At that time, I would write a letter expressing my concerns to the department chairman, and the dean. i would not mention religion or the New Testament or Jesus in my letter, since the dean might think you are a kook. I would say that her teaching methods are discriminatory, unfair, and slanted toward a sick view of society or something like that, keeping religious symbols out of the letter, but p(name removed by moderator)ointing your serious objections to what she had taught.
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To be fair, nothing she has said is unfair or discriminatory. They are upsetting and perhaps even insulting, but they are really consistent (in type, though perhps not content) that you would find from any strong-minded professor. It would be best to explain, fairly, that she seems to allow her personal feelings to unduly influence her teaching, and in doing so, she creates an atmosphere that does not invite further discussion. Professors can have opinions, and they can have controversial opinions, but when those opinions become such an entrenched part of the course that they drown out contrary opinions, then there is a problem.
 
casslean said:
To be fair, nothing she has said is unfair or discriminatory. They are upsetting and perhaps even insulting, but they are really consistent (in type, though perhps not content) that you would find from any strong-minded professor. It would be best to explain, fairly, that she seems to allow her personal feelings to unduly influence her teaching, and in doing so, she creates an atmosphere that does not invite further discussion. Professors can have opinions, and they can have controversial opinions, but when those opinions become such an entrenched part of the course that they drown out contrary opinions, then there is a problem.
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true. Some of my best professors were the ones that everyone loathed because they were controversial.
Try not to take their remarks too personally. It’s just a class. Over soon. But like I said previously, if it’s really egregious in your opinion, there’s always an advocate. Maybe wait till after you get your “A” though. 😃
 
SnowAngels said:
Thank you all for your responses!

@CthgeDelendaEst, I can imagine she wouldn’t appreciate being put on YouTube either!

@pianistclare, I don’t have a personal college advisor. I wonder if my community college does…She is not the only person teaching the course, but after researching the teachers and the reviews students have made on them, she is the one that my sister and I determined to be the best choice. I have definitely experienced that! I’ve had amazing and not-so-amazing teachers!

@Micosil, I was considering doing exactly that. First pass, then go to the Dean.

@casslean, she certainly doesn’t mind people speaking up at all, but I’m not sure she encourages discussion. In this case, I wasn’t sure what to say so I said nothing. Unfortunately, there are no teacher reviews for the summer sessions. :confused:

@Blue_Goose, thank you for your suggestions! I am not going to drop the class, but I will start recording anything disturbing.
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I am a college professor and I would argue that your first priority should be to pass the class. The reason is a practical one, in most schools, professors have almost all the rights when it comes to grading. It is almost impossible to make a professor change a grade if they are not going to do it willingly. In my opinion, speaking to the dean probably won’t do much good. They are often loathe to take on professors because there is little they can do to discipline them. I like the Youtube approach, assuming it is legal. I wouldn’t want it done to me, but then again I am not too controversial in the classroom.
 
SnowAngels said:
Hi CAF,

I am currently taking a required class called “Modern Social Problems” through my local college. The college is very liberal itself, and my professor is very extreme, so I knew I’d have an interesting time in the class. Nevertheless, I was ready to use it as an experience to grow, discuss controversial topics with people of conflicting opinions, and learn something new.

My first impression of my teacher was not a good one. The first thing she said to us were extremely inappropriate things. She also used a lot of unprofessional language/profanity. However, after the second class, I noticed a couple things…

Firstly, she flipped off her supervisor who requires that a final be given in the class. Secondly, she continually belittles and hates on America. She talks about how it is a terrible place, how all Americas are stupid, how she dislikes it greatly (she is an American). And third, she said that she found the American flag to be incredibly ugly. I am not just reading into her words, she said that exactly. As an American, I found that completely inappropriate and unpatriotic. I know all people are entitled to their own opinion on how the American flag looks (I suppose some people aren’t a fan of red, white, and blue?), but stating that it is ugly with so much disgust as she did was insulting to all the people who fought and died for it!

My question is, is there anything I should do? At what point is is appropriate to speak up? She states things in the classroom that are not a matter of political beliefs (whether I agree or disagree), but a matter of simple statements that are unpatriotic as Americans (ex: the flag is ugly).

Thank you for your time! God bless!
Click to expand...
You should drop that class before she maliciously gives you a bad grade.
 
SnowAngels said:
Hi CAF,

I am currently taking a required class called “Modern Social Problems” through my local college. The college is very liberal itself, and my professor is very extreme, so I knew I’d have an interesting time in the class. Nevertheless, I was ready to use it as an experience to grow, discuss controversial topics with people of conflicting opinions, and learn something new.

My first impression of my teacher was not a good one. The first thing she said to us were extremely inappropriate things. She also used a lot of unprofessional language/profanity. However, after the second class, I noticed a couple things…

Firstly, she flipped off her supervisor who requires that a final be given in the class. Secondly, she continually belittles and hates on America. She talks about how it is a terrible place, how all Americas are stupid, how she dislikes it greatly (she is an American). And third, she said that she found the American flag to be incredibly ugly. I am not just reading into her words, she said that exactly. As an American, I found that completely inappropriate and unpatriotic. I know all people are entitled to their own opinion on how the American flag looks (I suppose some people aren’t a fan of red, white, and blue?), but stating that it is ugly with so much disgust as she did was insulting to all the people who fought and died for it!

My question is, is there anything I should do? At what point is is appropriate to speak up? She states things in the classroom that are not a matter of political beliefs (whether I agree or disagree), but a matter of simple statements that are unpatriotic as Americans (ex: the flag is ugly).

Thank you for your time! God bless!
Click to expand...
Well, I would suggest going to her privately and saying, “I understand that you want to get students to think critically about nationalism, but if that’s your goal maybe you should reconsider making flip remarks that come across as casually disrespectful. I want to learn from you and to understand your point of view, and I would be able to do that better if you presented your views differently.” Or something to that effect. There is no comfortable way to handle this kind of thing, but videotaping her secretly, as some have suggested, is (from my point of view as an ex-professor) dishonorable.

As Chesterton pointed out more than a century ago now, the best critiques come out of love, not contempt. Your professor needs to understand that if students see her as despising and hating her country, they won’t be very open to the serious things she has to say.

Edwin
 
stinkcat_14 said:
I am a college professor and I would argue that your first priority should be to pass the class. The reason is a practical one, in most schools, professors have almost all the rights when it comes to grading. It is almost impossible to make a professor change a grade if they are not going to do it willingly. In my opinion, speaking to the dean probably won’t do much good. They are often loathe to take on professors because there is little they can do to discipline them. I like the Youtube approach, assuming it is legal. I wouldn’t want it done to me, but then again I am not too controversial in the classroom.
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👍👍👍

The Youtube approach would be very effective if it were a private college or university. You could title it: “Why Parents Should NOT Send Their Kids to This School” You could also “copy” the alumni organizations with a title of : “Why Donate and Support This Tripe”.
Most big alumni donors are wealthy conservatives…and after a few phone calls to the dean…that “professor” would be out on the street…tenured or not.
 
Zoltan_Cobalt said:
👍👍👍

The Youtube approach would be very effective if it were a private college or university. You could title it: “Why Parents Should NOT Send Their Kids to This School” You could also “copy” the alumni organizations with a title of : “Why Donate and Support This Tripe”.
Most big alumni donors are wealthy conservatives…and after a few phone calls to the dean…that “professor” would be out on the street…tenured or not.
Click to expand...
I just want to point out that this professor isn’t, by any account we’ve heard so far, doing anything except voicing some opinions that bother this particular student. She has the right to do that, the same as a conservative professor does and should have the right to voice their opposition to the government’s stance on abortion or same-sex marriage.

The problem arises if and when her style effectively silences students from voicing contrary opinions - and if that is happening, she should be made aware, as should her department. But that is a teaching flaw that can be corrected, not a reason to try to have someone removed from their job.
 
Zoltan_Cobalt said:
👍👍👍

The Youtube approach would be very effective if it were a private college or university. You could title it: “Why Parents Should NOT Send Their Kids to This School” You could also “copy” the alumni organizations with a title of : “Why Donate and Support This Tripe”.
Most big alumni donors are wealthy conservatives…and after a few phone calls to the dean…that “professor” would be out on the street…tenured or not.
Click to expand...
I’m definitely not going to tape my professor and post it online. It doesn’t entice me. Plus, it seems more mean than anything else.
 
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