When to Speak Up in Class

[SnowAngels]

I just want to point out that this professor isn’t, by any account we’ve heard so far, doing anything except voicing some opinions that bother this particular student. She has the right to do that, the same as a conservative professor does and should have the right to voice their opposition to the government’s stance on abortion or same-sex marriage.

The problem arises if and when her style effectively silences students from voicing contrary opinions - and if that is happening, she should be made aware, as should her department. But that is a teaching flaw that can be corrected, not a reason to try to have someone removed from their job.

Thank you for your reply! I completely agree with you. All people have a right to voice their own opinion on issues.

I do have to say that your second paragraph describes my teacher accurately. Like you mentioned, I plan to finish the class successfully, and then I’ll consider talking to the Dean.

 

[SnowAngels]

Well, I would suggest going to her privately and saying, “I understand that you want to get students to think critically about nationalism, but if that’s your goal maybe you should reconsider making flip remarks that come across as casually disrespectful. I want to learn from you and to understand your point of view, and I would be able to do that better if you presented your views differently.” Or something to that effect. There is no comfortable way to handle this kind of thing, but videotaping her secretly, as some have suggested, is (from my point of view as an ex-professor) dishonorable.

As Chesterton pointed out more than a century ago now, the best critiques come out of love, not contempt. Your professor needs to understand that if students see her as despising and hating her country, they won’t be very open to the serious things she has to say.

Edwin

I like Chesterton’s point!

 

[Hazen_Pingree]

Should college professors be allowed to bully their students for political or unexamined personal reasons? I think that is what is going on here. There’s a lot of anger on display in this classroom.

Ask yourself: What is being taught here? We know that the professor thinks the flag is “ugly” (whatever *that *means – is she making a statement about her personal taste in graphic design – or is she saying that what the flag represents is ugly? – big difference), and we know that she uses inappropriate and even profane language. These are all signs of a teacher who shouldn’t be teaching.

Teaching Modern Social Problems doesn’t require the instructors opinions on graphic design or on America. And it certainly doesn’t require her to use vulgarity when speaking to her students. If she were professional, she could present the subject material in an objective manner. Vulgarity isn’t objective. Her opinions on her home country aren’t objective. If she has a case to make, she should be able to do so in a way that doesn’t insult the sensibilities of her students.

What do students learn when a professor steps over the line? Certainly, they don’t learn the subject. They learn that the college allows its instructors to bully its students. They learn that the instructor is incontinent and cannot control her emotions. They learn that she is ineffective and lacking in ability. They don’t learn the subject matter.

I can’t help but worry for her students. Why should they have to pay for such incompetence?

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

I’m definitely not going to tape my professor and post it online. It doesn’t entice me. Plus, it seems more mean than anything else.

Then I guess you were not really as incensed and offended as I was reading your OP.

I was offended to know that a college professor thinks "

ALL Americans are stupid

". Granted some are…but I AM NOT. So i take that personally.

I, like you, find it “completely inappropriate and unpatriotic” to disrespect the American Flag. As someone who has fought a war and one other armed conflict under that Flag, I, like you say, am insulted.

Quite frankly, if what you posted is true, that person has no business indoctrinating decent American youth.

I believe it was George Bernard Shaw who said:

Those that can, do…
Those that can’t, teach.
And those that can’t teach become college professors.

 

[SnowAngels]

Then I guess you were not really as incensed and offended as I was reading your OP.

I was offended to know that a college professor thinks “”. Granted some are…but I AM NOT. So i take that personally.

I, like you, find it “completely inappropriate and unpatriotic” to disrespect the American Flag. As someone who has fought a war and one other armed conflict under that Flag, I, like you say, am insulted.

Quite frankly, if what you posted is true, that person has no business indoctrinating decent American youth.

I believe it was George Bernard Shaw who said:

I am offended, but I don’t want to post anything on YT because that seems to just create a problem - not solve one.

I agree that all Americans are not stupid - I was as surprised as you are that she said that.

Nothing too horrendous happened today in class, thankfully. I think a good first step is to pray for my teacher.

 

[Ignatius]

I like Chesterton’s point!

So, did you approach your teacher on this? If so, what did she say?

Please keep us posted on this situation.

 

[Ignatius]

I like Chesterton’s point!

How’s it going? Any update?

 

[SnowAngels]

How’s it going? Any update?

Sorry for not getting back to you sooner!

Class is terrible…my teacher hates on people with white skin - saying we are evil. She repeated a couple things she originally said - Americans are stupid, my college is stupid, etc.

So far I have a 100 average in the class, so I’m not worried about passing…I just pay attention and stay quiet. I appreciate you checking up on me! Thank you for all your advice so far!

Luckily, we are in week three of six! :dancing:

 

[SnowAngels]

So, did you approach your teacher on this? If so, what did she say?

Please keep us posted on this situation.

My teacher is very closed about opinions that contradict hers. In fact - all information is not presented as opinion but as fact.

I will continue to pray for her!

 

[Hazen_Pingree]

What is so disturbing about this to me is that, while you (SnowAngels), are aware that this instructor is flawed, there may be others in your classroom who are not aware of her (and I think I’m using this word precisely) conceit. Your uninformed classmates will believe the lie and pass it along to others. This is most unfortunate.

The fact that you have a 100 average also tells me that…

A. She does not ask her students to parrot her opinions in her tests and quizzes, or

B. She wants her students to embrace her opinions and they’ve acquiesced for the sake of passing on – no one wants to “rock the boat.”

In the first instance, her framework for testing (not teaching) would be laudable. In the second instance, however, both the students and their teacher are pursuing – and validating – falsehoods. She, perhaps out of ignorance – but more likely out of arrogance. And the students, perhaps out of anxiety over punishment or resignation in the face of a lie.

It is the second instance that is most troubling. It is a shameful thing that all of your classmates have been placed in such an untenable situation. It is an abuse of authority.

I understand that you are not in the position to instruct the instructor, but when someone teaches a lie or an opinion that cannot be challenged in public, that person needs correction. When we remain silent in the face of lies, we perpetuate those lies.

 

[casslean]

I understand that you are not in the position to instruct the instructor, but when someone teaches a lie or an opinion that cannot be challenged in public, that person needs correction. When we remain silent in the face of lies, we perpetuate those lies.

I agree, but in this situation, correction cannot be done directly. It will have to be indirect and appropriately timed. That means speaking to the head of the department once the class is finished and the professor is no longer in a position to penalize the student.

SnowAngel, I’ve dealt with professors who felt it was appropriate to bash the students in their classes. In law school, professors like to patronize us all by telling us how privileged we are (I’m sure you’ve heard all about “white privilege” as well). Just filter those comments out - you cannot change the mind of someone who doesn’t want to change.

 

[SnowAngels]

What is so disturbing about this to me is that, while you (SnowAngels), are aware that this instructor is flawed, there may be others in your classroom who are not aware of her (and I think I’m using this word precisely) conceit. Your uninformed classmates will believe the lie and pass it along to others. This is most unfortunate.

The fact that you have a 100 average also tells me that…

A. She does not ask her students to parrot her opinions in her tests and quizzes, or

B. She wants her students to embrace her opinions and they’ve acquiesced for the sake of passing on – no one wants to “rock the boat.”

In the first instance, her framework for testing (not teaching) would be laudable. In the second instance, however, both the students and their teacher are pursuing – and validating – falsehoods. She, perhaps out of ignorance – but more likely out of arrogance. And the students, perhaps out of anxiety over punishment or resignation in the face of a lie.

It is the second instance that is most troubling. It is a shameful thing that all of your classmates have been placed in such an untenable situation. It is an abuse of authority.

I understand that you are not in the position to instruct the instructor, but when someone teaches a lie or an opinion that cannot be challenged in public, that person needs correction. When we remain silent in the face of lies, we perpetuate those lies.

An instance like that happened on Monday…she was talking “identifying as American”, and how Americans can choose if they want to be Americans at all…and a boy raised his hand and said, “I’m a third generation American, and I don’t consider myself American – in fact – I don’t even want to be called American!” He said it would be insulting to be called an American.

Much to my surprise, her first test was on completely on terms and approaches to social problems - mostly objective stuff. What I get on the paper I handed in we shall see…

 

[SnowAngels]

I agree, but in this situation, correction cannot be done directly. It will have to be indirect and appropriately timed. That means speaking to the head of the department once the class is finished and the professor is no longer in a position to penalize the student.

SnowAngel, I’ve dealt with professors who felt it was appropriate to bash the students in their classes. In law school, professors like to patronize us all by telling us how privileged we are (I’m sure you’ve heard all about “white privilege” as well). Just filter those comments out - you cannot change the mind of someone who doesn’t want to change.

I agree with you.

Yes…I’ve hear that at least five times a day…

 

[GLam8833]

The fear of man is a snare, don’t be intimidated by this
teacher, stand up to her, she is just another created
being, maybe MOST students in the class feel the same
way as you… SPEAK UP and say “I don’t agree that
the American flag is ugly, because it represents the
freedom of speech that YOU are using!!!” Don’t fear
being put on the spot, God will give you words that
no Ph.D. professor will be able to answer, be “Right
and Just”. I’ll say a prayer for you.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

Nevertheless, I was ready to use it as an experience to grow, discuss controversial topics with people of conflicting opinions, and learn something new.

It sounds like the professor may actually be doing an excellent job at sharing conflicting opinions and a new perspective.

Firstly, she flipped off her supervisor who requires that a final be given in the class.

It’s probably best to leave that between her and the supervisor.

Secondly, she continually belittles and hates on America. She talks about how it is a terrible place, how all Americas are stupid, how she dislikes it greatly (she is an American).

I like where I live (in the USA). However I also understand not everyone in the USA has had experiences similar to mine and thus are not going to have the same feelings. Despite all of it’s positives the USA does also have some negative marks on its history too. There were the eugenics experiments, experiments testing various chemicals (like mustard gas) on citizens , the great Arizona abduction, the sundown towns, red lining practices, and the treatment of the indigenous from the arrival of the first europeans up to living memory just to name some of the examples that come to mine. Knowledge of these things can change someone’s view of the country, especially if that person has either directly experienced something or is the child of someone with direct experience.

This may be a great opportunity for acquiring an understanding about someone’s whose views and experiences are different than your own. If you are interest I would suggest asking some questions to get a better understanding of her stance. If you are not interested, like what was suggested earlier just concentrate on passing the class.

From your description she makes me think of the professor Angela Davis ref, ref]. It also reminds me of the time that Fredric Douglas was asked to speak at a 4th of July celebration and said some things that might be considered unpatrioticref], though I don’t think any of his remarks were said to be insulting to anyone.

And third, she said that she found the American flag to be incredibly ugly. I am not just reading into her words, she said that exactly. As an American, I found that completely inappropriate and unpatriotic. I know all people are entitled to their own opinion on how the American flag looks (I suppose some people aren’t a fan of red, white, and blue?), but stating that it is ugly with so much disgust as she did was insulting to all the people who fought and died for it!

…I may be a statement on aesthetics. If I said that I thought “wigs look silly on men” I don’t think that would necessarily be the insult to the founder fathers that wore them. If the flag is being seen as a proxy for something she doesn’t like in the USA then it may be important to keep in mind that not everyone’s experience in the USA has been the same.

My question is, is there anything I should do?

I don’t think so.

At what point is is appropriate to speak up?

If you take an approach of both seeking to understand her position, really mean it, and if she feels you are being genuine then you can probably have a discussion exchanging views at any time.

 

[SnowAngels]

Thank you all for your help! The semester ended (I got an A)! :thumbsup:

 

[Theo520]

Well, you asked for an experience, and you are getting one

Speaking up with this teacher could come back to bite you, so you need to be politically smart about the whole thing.

First, get one of those cheap recorders so you don’t have to take notes, and start recording your lectures. If the profanity is over the top, at least you will have some evidence and it’s not he said / she said. dailycaller.com/2015/06/30/highly-decorated-lsu-professor-fired-for-occasional-profanity/

In a class on social problems, I’d expect the teacher doesn’t think America deals appropriately with our issues, and isn’t patriotic. Keep an open mind since teachers sometimes are just trying to challenge you to think outside your normal viewpoint. However, recordings of her tirades won’t do you any harm:thumbsup:.

At this point, I’d feel comfortable challenging her on any points where you hold a strong knowledge or conviction and see how it goes. She may welcome the debate and even reward you.

Hi CAF,
My question is, is there anything I should do? At what point is is appropriate to speak up? She states things in the classroom that are not a matter of political beliefs (whether I agree or disagree), but a matter of simple statements that are unpatriotic as Americans (ex: the flag is ugly).

Thank you for your time! God bless!