When Two Men Live Together

[wabrams]

JKirkLVNV:

No, I quite serious. It’s great, provided you have a good confessor. And you’re absoved of your sins. What could be better?

Just a strange concept to me, thats all.

 

[TarAshly]

I would say mind your own business unless you have solid proof. You could cost these men their jobs and they may be nothing more than room mates. my husband lived in a house with a couple of his buddies for two years before we got married and TRUST me aint nothing gay about that man! Lots of people buy homes together, my aunt and a friend of hers from work bought a home together, apartments are small, noisy and you quickly out grow them. trust me there i live in one. This person whos telling you this is human and could be lieing to mistaken or a gossip. you just never know. let me put it this way. I am taking art this semester in school. I would have bet money that he was gay from his mannerisms, his way of dress everything. come to find out hes married with three kids. they may just be dear old friends. dont ruin someones life over a rumor.

Cupofkindness:

Thank you for all of your replies. I don’t want to accuse people of a crime they didn’t commit, so your concerns are understandable. And, while people have roommates that are the same gender, it would be unusual for a couple of men to buy a pricey home together. Usually, one roommate owns the home and the other rents from the home owner.

What you must realize is that I have it from a reputable person who works at the school that these men, to put it in that person’s own words, are “flaming homosexuals.” No teenager told me that. And I believe this person. Thanks again!

 

[Cupofkindness]

My original post was not what anyone thought about the information pertaining to the two men in question. Since I don’t doubt my sources, and since I’m not going to give anymore information about them on a public forum, the matter of whether the information is true or not really isn’t the reason I started this thread.

I feel like I’m on trial here. All I am looking for is specific Church documents or teachings pertaining to this matter, not everyone’s opinion about two men, their sexual preferences, their living situation or my personal views on homosexuality. And while I find the stories about other odd living situations interesting, they don’t address my concerns. My problem is that in all likelihood gay men are quietly “out” at a Catholic school. Why would anyone think I would stoop so low as to spread unfounded gossip? I am thinking of making a very major change in the life of my children, why would I be so cavalier about such an important issue as this one?

This is not a joke and I must admit that I feel that some of you are trivializing this matter with comments that are not appropriate.

If you don’t have anything to post that will move this discussion forward, please begin a new thread to air your concerns about side issues raised on this thread. Thank you. And to those of you who have addressed my concerns, I appreciate your help.

 

[TarAshly]

Cupofkindness:

But even though I don’t have proof, why should that prevent me from speaking to the priest about this matter?

?

BECAUSE you could ruin the lives of innocent people. You could cost them their job. If you have no proof and youre not comfortable with it pull your kids out and homeschool them or find another school until you feel the situation is remedied. this is thin ice over a burning candle.

 

[LSK]

Cupofkindness:

But even though I don’t have proof, why should that prevent me from speaking to the priest about this matter?

If these rumors are true, then this is a very grave situation. These men a living a lifestyle with children who are in that school because their parents want them away from this sort of immorality. If the students know it, then the students may well see some hypocracy, that what the Church teaches is unimportant. If these men are gay, it isn’t a secret. People know right now. I see it as a wolf in sheep’s clothes sort of situation. Do we wait until someone, like a child, sees something inappropriate?

We are talking about men in a leadership role at a Catholic school. Even if there are rumors present, this matter needs to be addressed and perceptions corrected if these men are in fact leading chaste lives.

Are all of you telling me that I would be wrong to speak to the priest running the school?

I do not think you would be wrong to speak to the priest running the school; however, I do think you might have to be prepared to be told that:
a) your information is incorrect OR
b) the school is aware of the situation and has decided to take a different approach than what you want them to take

My experience has been that we are sometimes unprepared for a ‘negative’ outcome, i.e. that what we want to get is not what we get. If, my sister in Christ, you believe you can approach this with a true attitude of loving humility and obedience, accept whatever may be the outcome and then make your decision to either remove your children, go above the priest’s head, or be told that the gentlemen in question are not homosexual and your reliable information is wrong then you are fine.

And you should never NEVER worry about going to a priest with ANY concern. By all means, go and speak with him. No one is discouraging you from that - but you asked us how you should be prepared and how you should approach it.

I feel you should read up on the CATECHISM section on homosexuality. Then you should assemble only the FACTS you have about these two men…NOT rumor or innuendo…and if your reliable source is not brave enough to accompany you or let you use their full name then leave out the ‘flaming’ accusation.

 

[TarAshly]

could have been a little more charitable but i agree.

mikec1:

i have a problem with this topic due to the fact that most people are hipocrits, the bible tells us to love one another and our neighbor, you clearly have a problem with that, i do realize the bible says that homosexuality is wrong, but what people do in the bedroom is **none **of your business. im sure your children do not go around school telling their friends what you do in your home, you should mind your own business, as long as those gentlemen are not hurting the children or telling everyone of their personal situation who are you to divulge that information. what if you were gay or whatever and you realize the society we live in and how it looks, would you want some ignorant person like yourself to tell everyone your business as long as you are not hurting anyone and it stays in the confines of your home. i think that you should stop worring about other peoples business so much and take care of your own life.

 

[Other_Eric]

felra:

It is a consideration to qualify your comments to this serious request of this OP with a face to indicate the jest of your comment. I take your above comment as sarcasm.

Please let us know if this comment was in fact intended as a serious suggestion, and if so, it would be helpful to the OP to explain the rationale behind such a brash suggestion.

Hi felra!

It was indeed a serious suggestion. If someone has reason to believe that a homosexual is employed in a school then it seems to me that the method of finding this out is to:

1. 
   *]Directly confront the individual in private;
   *]If this fails, confront him with a group;
   *]If both of the previous methods fail, then take the matter up with the relevant authority.
   
   On one hand, if you are wrong and the individual does not turn out to be a homosexual then it can be laughed off as an innocent error on the part of the person asking. If, on the other hand, he is found to be a homosexual, then you have identified a possible threat to the spiritual well-being of the student body and very likely saved them from a sexual predator.

 

[TarAshly]

HOLD ON THERE! my sister is a single mother with no father in the picture and she has never ONCE taken welfare! she works hard everyday to provide for my niece. I’d watch the generalizations cup! and what goes on between me and my husband in our bedroom is none of your business. youre not the only tax payer out there ya know! I pay taxes for all the same thing you pay taxes on and i dont want to know what goes on behind your bedroom doors or anyone else’s for that matter. I dont think you understand the ramifications if these are false accusations.

Cupofkindness:

Actually, what people do in their bedrooms is my buisness. Especially in matters concerning sex outside of marriage. I pay the taxes that support thousands of families on welfare that have no father in the home to support his children. I pay taxes for the medical care of millions of people who do not have medical insurance, and that medical care includes funds for the treatment of STDs and AIDS. I pay taxes to support the police department that polices sexually oriented businesses and crimes against other citizens. So what people do in their private lives is my business, because I’m affected by it. What happens in this instance behind closed doors is something I don’t even want to think about. As for me and my children, what happens behind my bedroom doors is what God has planned for humanity: two parents with young kids who are so exhausted every night they’re asleep before their heads even hit the pillow! That is His plan, right?

But back to what I was saying, I don’t mind paying those taxes, people need this sort of support, and thankfully we live in a society that is wealthy enough to provide some standard of care. However, what we choose as a society affects everyone in it. Not only financially, but also spiritually. And let me tell you in no uncertain terms that this situation is agony for me. I am responsible for my children’s souls before God, not these two men. It is my job to protect my children, and if I need to remove them from this school I will do so. But not without a word to the people in charge. And thank you, felra, for your gracious support.

 

[Other_Eric]

Cupofkindness:

My original post was not what anyone thought about the information pertaining to the two men in question. Since I don’t doubt my sources, and since I’m not going to give anymore information about them on a public forum, the matter of whether the information is true or not really isn’t the reason I started this thread.

I feel like I’m on trial here. All I am looking for is specific Church documents or teachings pertaining to this matter, not everyone’s opinion about two men, their sexual preferences, their living situation or my personal views on homosexuality. And while I find the stories about other odd living situations interesting, they don’t address my concerns. My problem is that in all likelihood gay men are quietly “out” at a Catholic school. Why would anyone think I would stoop so low as to spread unfounded gossip? I am thinking of making a very major change in the life of my children, why would I be so cavalier about such an important issue as this one?

This is not a joke and I must admit that I feel that some of you are trivializing this matter with comments that are not appropriate.

If you don’t have anything to post that will move this discussion forward, please begin a new thread to air your concerns about side issues raised on this thread. Thank you. And to those of you who have addressed my concerns, I appreciate your help.

Hi Cupofkindness!

If you are sure that these men are practicing homosexuals then it is even more incumbent upon you to confront them directly.

 

[TarAshly]

No Wabrams flamming is an ugly thing to say. Its derogatory and certainly not a charitable or CATHOLIC description of any kind.

wabrams:

I’ve always taken ‘flamming’ to mean very open about being homosexual.

 

[TarAshly]

I dont think its brash at all. she should be an adult and confront the men shes speculating and gossiping about.

felra:

It is a consideration to qualify your comments to this serious request of this OP with a face to indicate the jest of your comment. I take your above comment as sarcasm.

Please let us know if this comment was in fact intended as a serious suggestion, and if so, it would be helpful to the OP to explain the rationale behind such a brash suggestion.

 

[BillP]

Cupofkindness:

…My problem is that in all likelihood gay men are quietly “out” at a Catholic school.

NONE of your previous posts indicate that these two gentlemen have made an issue of their sexual orientation. All you have the unqualified assertion of some “reliable source”. I repeat unless this “reliable source” has first hand knowledge of the sexual orientation of these two men then he is something less than reliable.

Cupofkindness:

Why would anyone think I would stoop so low as to spread unfounded gossip?

Because that is what it appears that you are doing. You may believe that these two men are homosexuals, but you don’t KNOW it. THAT makes it unfounded, and thus “gossip”

Cupofkindness:

I am thinking of making a very major change in the life of my children, why would I be so cavalier about such an important issue as this one?

Why are you being so cavalier about the reputations and livelihoods of two men?

By all means go to your priest, but be prepared to be lectured about Charity and Gossip.

Have you heard the Bible verse about the mote and the beam?

 

[movingmom]

Just a question…how could the two men lose their jobs if they say that they are NOT homosexuals?

I think for them, it’s better that the truth get out there either way then to let the rumor mill spin. And yes, I don’t believe a Catholic school is suitable place for homosexuals to work. They can always work in a public school if need be, especially if they turn out to be overall good teachers.

 

[felra]

TarAshly:

I dont think its brash at all. she should be an adult and confront the men shes speculating and gossiping about.

Okay, shoe other foot – “Hi, my name is _____, the rumor mill has it that you are living in a homosexual relationship. Do you care to confirm or dispel this rumor?” Hhmmm? …I don’t know. I absence of concrete evidence, I would have second thoughts.

For example, I currently live next door to a cohabitating young [heterosexual] couple, who in public conduct themselves as more than friends. We have recently found out that the female works at a local Catholic elementary school. Taking your advice, I should be an adult and confront this female cohabitating neighbor, who by obvious speculation (I will spare you some of the more concrete details from my wife’s girlfriend as a credible source stumbled across) is living in an arrangement contrary to Church teaching?

 

[Other_Eric]

felra:

Okay, shoe other foot – “Hi, my name is _____, the rumor mill has it that you are living in a homosexual relationship. Do you care to confirm or dispel this rumor?” Hhmmm? …I don’t know. I absence of concrete evidence, I would have second thoughts.

For example, I currently live next door to a cohabitating young [heterosexual] couple, who in public conduct themselves as more than friends. We have recently found out that the female works at a local Catholic elementary school. Taking your advice, I should be an adult and confront this female cohabitating neighbor, who by obvious speculation (I will spare you some of the more concrete details from my wife’s girlfriend as a credible source stumbled across) is living in an arrangement contrary to Church teaching?

Hi felra!

Christ does not always ask us to do that which is comfortable.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Cupofkindness:

My original post was not what anyone thought about the information pertaining to the two men in question. Since I don’t doubt my sources, and since I’m not going to give anymore information about them on a public forum, the matter of whether the information is true or not really isn’t the reason I started this thread.

I feel like I’m on trial here. All I am looking for is specific Church documents or teachings pertaining to this matter, not everyone’s opinion about two men, their sexual preferences, their living situation or my personal views on homosexuality. And while I find the stories about other odd living situations interesting, they don’t address my concerns. My problem is that in all likelihood gay men are quietly “out” at a Catholic school. Why would anyone think I would stoop so low as to spread unfounded gossip? I am thinking of making a very major change in the life of my children, why would I be so cavalier about such an important issue as this one?

This is not a joke and I must admit that I feel that some of you are trivializing this matter with comments that are not appropriate.

If you don’t have anything to post that will move this discussion forward, please begin a new thread to air your concerns about side issues raised on this thread. Thank you. And to those of you who have addressed my concerns, I appreciate your help.

I don’t know you and I must accept at face value that your intentions are good. However, there is something a little “Gladys Kravitz” about the whole thing. Have they kissed or held hands or presented themselves as being married in front of or to the kids? Expounded the “benefits” or “positives” of being gay? That’s when I would object, long and loud. Until then, appearances can be deceiving. I would mind my own business, until something overt happens. Until then, there’s nothing to “sink one’s teeth into,” as it were.

 

[Cupofkindness]

I’ve already talked to my priest… It’s the priest running the school that I hope to speak to.

It’s unlikely that I would approach these men first.

And by the term ‘out’ I don’t mean that it’s common knowledge or flaunted or openly discussed, but that many people know about it, like co-workers might know about a single person in a serious dating relationship.

And if these men say they aren’t gay, well, then, game over. I’m either wrong and I would apologize or they are lying, and I would probably apologize anyway.

And for heaven’s sake, TarAshley, I didn’t say YOUR sister! It’s a fact that millions of people receive government assistance, so what’s your point? That not all single parents don’t accept government assistance? Is that news to anyone? Let’s just try to focus on the subject and if you can’t make any contribution to this thread, show a little self-restraint and move on.

So let me repeat myself, in light of the Church’s position on homosexuality and fornication, what do you think I could use in terms of Church documents in a discussion with the head of this school to help support my view that sexually active homosexuals really don’t belong at a Catholic instituion in a position of influence over the children?

By the way, who is Gladys Kravitz?

 

[TarAshly]

No I’d tell you to mind you own business and that you are not the authority of the Church. if its a problem for you ask your priest to go see her. ask your priest what you should do. I am amazed how many people dub themselves the Catholic police and just decide that everyone should live as they live. its not the most charitable way of doing things. If i am not mistaken Felra you started a similar thread about these neighbors of yours and got similiar responses as Cup is getting on this thread… certain things are not your business, I live across the way from some college age kids (i am too) who tend to party every night, and i know that they are not exactly moral martys but i dont go running over to the landlord and tell em “EVICT EM! THEYRE NOT BEING MORAL AND THERE ARE GIRLS OVER THERE OVER NIGHT!” i simply place my statue of Mary in the window, be kind to them and pray for them. thats what we should do. not police everyone to death. just my :twocents:

felra:

Okay, shoe other foot – “Hi, my name is _____, the rumor mill has it that you are living in a homosexual relationship. Do you care to confirm or dispel this rumor?” Hhmmm? …I don’t know. I absence of concrete evidence, I would have second thoughts.

For example, I currently live next door to a cohabitating young [heterosexual] couple, who in public conduct themselves as more than friends. We have recently found out that the female works at a local Catholic elementary school. Taking your advice, I should be an adult and confront this female cohabitating neighbor, who by obvious speculation (I will spare you some of the more concrete details from my wife’s girlfriend as a credible source stumbled across) is living in an arrangement contrary to Church teaching?

 

[movingmom]

I know I am going to get flack about this…

I think two heterosexuals living in sin is a little different than two people living as homosexuals. Both are sins, but one is certainly more inflammatory than the other, thus good gossip fodder.

I still say stop the rumor mill and pose the question diplomatically to the men, they deserve a chance to clear their names.

 

[TarAshly]

Gladys Kravitz!!! Thats a good one!

JKirkLVNV:

I don’t know you and I must accept at face value that your intentions are good. However, there is something a little “Gladys Kravitz” about the whole thing. Have they kissed or held hands or presented themselves as being married in front of or to the kids? Expounded the “benefits” or “positives” of being gay? That’s when I would object, long and loud. Until then, appearances can be deceiving. I would mind my own business, until something overt happens. Until then, there’s nothing to “sink one’s teeth into,” as it were.