When Two Men Live Together

[Libero]

CupofKindness, I think what you do about that this matter is a bit risky. First off (I haven’t read the entire post) do the teachers teach a specific subject? If these men teach geography or IT then there obviously will not be a great chance of the church’s beliefs being talked about, compared to religion lessons. Secondly, if this school is a good school, then therre won’t be any situation where the teachers sexual orientation shall be talked about (other than between pupils). Not only this, but kids talk and spread rumours anyway, it doesn’t even matter in some cases if a techer is living with another man, rumours occur merely if a student thinks a teacher is gay. If these children are old enough to be impressionable and work all this out, then they are old enough to know the proper church teachings, they won’t be influenced by two teachers, if your children start believing ideas contrary to church morals on this topic, then that would mean that you are failing in your task as a catholic parent. You alone will be able to counter this issue. I would do nothing about it, as realistically it won’t make that much of a difference to your children, this view is also shared by Cardinal O’Brien, he stated that homosexual teachers (even in union) should be allowed to work in catholic schools.

 

[Heart_Of_Mary]

Benedictus:

I would be very careful. You suspect that these men are gay, but you don’t know for sure that they are. They evidently haven’t made it public if they are. In such a case, it is probably best if their private lives remain private. It’s reasonable to assume that they are merely roommates and friends–nothing more.

I** wouldn’t do or say anything about it.**

I agree! If the mere suspicion of a situation is enough to possibly ruin these two men’s lifes, then NOTHING should be done - on your part. If you knew these two men personally and you were not getting your “information” from a third party, then that would be a different matter.

How sad that two men or two women cannot share housing without drawing the suspicions of others…Merely living together should not automatically mean the people are homosexual. If that were the measuring instrument of what was acceptable and what was not, then what would that say about nuns and priests??

If YOU observe behavior that you believe is unacceptable then approach the proper school authorities - otherwise stay out of it.

KB

 

[Heart_Of_Mary]

Cupofkindness:

Thank you for all of your replies. I don’t want to accuse people of a crime they didn’t commit, so your concerns are understandable. And, while people have roommates that are the same gender, it would be unusual for a couple of men to buy a pricey home together. Usually, one roommate owns the home and the other rents from the home owner.

What you must realize is that I have it from a reputable person who works at the school that these men, to put it in that person’s own words, are “flaming homosexuals.” No teenager told me that. And I believe this person. Thanks again!

If they are “flaming homosexuals” then why can’t you witness their behavior for yourself? Why do you need the word of another? Even if you DO trust the person, you should be able to back up the accusations yourself.

KB

 

[Heart_Of_Mary]

OK - this is my LAST reply…

Here it is: Why do you not ask them yourself? If you do not want to do this, then you need to ask yourself why…Gossip is Gossip is Gossip - no matter how “reliable” the “source” is UNLESS that source is the person/persons in question. What if it were YOU that someone thought was gay because of a certain other person’s gossip? Would you not prefer to be approached FIRST before someone takes their misguided accuations to a priest? Go to the source; only then will you have someting legitimate to work with.

KB

 

[spiritblows]

Heart Of Mary:

If they are “flaming homosexuals” then why can’t you witness their behavior for yourself? Why do you need the word of another? Even if you DO trust the person, you should be able to back up the accusations yourself.

KB

You have a point here, it doesn’t sound as if this is a cut and dried case.

I think that the Bishops should really reevaluate whether they should be hiring non-practising Catholics in our Catholic schools. This policy would solve all these problems. Under the current policy, you really can’t pick on homosexuals. What about fornicating unmarried teachers, or other irregularities?

You should have a rule that all employees should be faithful to Rome as a condition of their employment. They should prove it too. I don’t understand hiring people who might be hostile to the Church…

 

[Libero]

You should have a rule that all employees should be faithful to Rome as a condition of their employment. They should prove it too. I don’t understand hiring people who might be hostile to the Church…

The only problem here is that our catholic schools may suddenly find themselves with a great shortage of qualified teachers.

 

[Karin]

spiritblows:

You should have a rule that all employees should be faithful to Rome as a condition of their employment. They should prove it too. I don’t understand hiring people who might be hostile to the Church…

And just how would you make a person prove it?

 

[Cupofkindness]

I can’t witness this behavior because the school is a school and parents just don’t wander around the halls looking into people’s classrooms and offices, that’s why. I’m able to go into the school for a lot of reasons, but fact-finding missions such as this one are beyond the scope of most parent visits.

And as Spiritblows suggested, you can demand that people do demonstrate their faithfulness to Christian tradtion. Proving it can be as simple as mandating that each employee of a Church affiliated organization sign a pledge stating that they believe that the moral teachings of the Church are correct and they promise to live by those teachings. It’s like a contract or a vow. And yes, there would be a turnover in employess at the onset, as the people who want to live life a little differently than Catholic teaching allow find a new path. But in the long run, you will build a very solid body of faithful Catholics serving whatever particular group the organization is charted to serve. Holding people to a high standard, one that is realistic, one that is God’s will, and one for which abundant graces are available for, is a very good thing for everyone. Plus, it’s easier for people to get to heaven when they lead a virtuous life. Why should any Catholic organization settle for less?

 

[Karin]

Cupofkindness:

And as Spiritblows suggested, you can demand that people do demonstrate their faithfulness to Christian tradtion. Proving it can be as simple as mandating that each employee of a Church affiliated organization sign a pledge stating that they believe that the moral teachings of the Church are correct and they promise to live by those teachings. It’s like a contract or a vow.

And who is checking to see that these people did not lie to keep their jobs and how do you check it…demand to enter peoples homes?

 

[Bella3502]

And who is checking to see that these people did not lie to keep their jobs and how do you check it…demand to enter peoples homes?

We have a woman teaching in our Catholic High School, who had her tubes tied after her 3 baby 10 years ago. She signed such a “statement” in order to teach in the school. No one asked her if she had her tubes tied. She didn’t lie, but she didn’t disclose either.

 

[Loboto-Me]

I agree, I wish there were such a “contract” for catholic people in such positions. Even if they didn’t honor their contract, that would give Catholic schools and such, a legal footing to dismiss those who don’t get back on track after fair warnings.

Unfortunately, I don’t know if there is such a contract, and because of this, it makes it difficult to dismiss those who go against catholic teaching purposely.

Bella, while we were out of line with Church teaching, my husband and I decided that it was best for my husband to have a vasectomy after our 5th child. Years later, we realized that we had left our faith (sometimes these things happen slowly and quietly). We confessed our sin, and were absolved. Catholics who have had permanent procedures done in the past aren’t necessarily bad catholics. Some of us are reverts and converts.

 

[Katie1723]

Thing is, there probably aren’t too many people among us that could pass a questionaire wherein we have been totally and completely faithful to all of the teachings/beliefs of our faith. We are human, and all of us at one time or another have done something that would be considered a sin. I believe we should have stringent guidlines when hiring teachers for our schools, but we don’t live in a Big Brother society, yet anyway, where everything we do everywhere all the time comes under scrutiny. There is a privacy thing somewhere that says our private lives are just that. On the flip side, when you put yourself in a position such as that of teacher, you darn well better know that you will be called to task for your actions.
~ Kathy ~

 

[Karin]

Katie1723:

Thing is, there probably aren’t too many people among us that could pass a questionaire wherein we have been totally and completely faithful to all of the teachings/beliefs of our faith. We are human, and all of us at one time or another have done something that would be considered a sin. I believe we should have stringent guidlines when hiring teachers for our schools, but we don’t live in a Big Brother society, yet anyway, where everything we do everywhere all the time comes under scrutiny. There is a privacy thing somewhere that says our private lives are just that. On the flip side, when you put yourself in a position such as that of teacher, you darn well better know that you will be called to task for your actions.

~ Kathy ~

Such a shame that the nuns and priests are not the sole teachers in Catholic Schools any longer…than none of this would be an issue!

 

[Katie1723]

Karin:

Such a shame that the nuns and priests are not the sole teachers in Catholic Schools any longer…than none of this would be an issue!

Even when I was in grade school in the late 50’s early 60’s there were one or 2 lay teachers. I had a lay teacher in second grade…and was she ever mean! But in any case, even nuns and priests are human and therefore have " foibles" we may not be privy to.And being a nun or priest is no guarantee that every thing they say is in line with church teachings.
~ Kathy ~

 

[Karin]

Katie1723:

Even when I was in grade school in the late 50’s early 60’s there were one or 2 lay teachers. I had a lay teacher in second grade…and was she ever mean! But in any case, even nuns and priests are human and therefore have " foibles" we may not be privy to.And being a nun or priest is no guarantee that every thing they say is in line with church teachings.
~ Kathy ~

**Well that is true…"**And being a nun or priest is no guarantee that every thing they say is in line with church teachings"…

 

[Heart_Of_Mary]

Karin:

Such a shame that the nuns and priests are not the sole teachers in Catholic Schools any longer…than none of this would be an issue!

The CHANCES of this being an issue may be less, but do not fool yourself; there are gay priests (previous issue discussed on boards and in news) and I am guessing lesbian nuns. People are people and those who wear a collar or habbit are really no different than the rest of us. They are, however, held to a higher standard.

KB

 

[TarAshly]

So Catholic singles are not worthy enough? or couples who can’t conceive? I dont understand why you are out to create such a eutopia in that school. what about divorced teachers? should they be fired too? they too have gone against Catholic teachings in a Catholic school. I understand your frustration cup of kindness. Please dont take this the wrong way but is it possible for you to home school? I have heard many success stories form the home schooling moms in the family life forum. That way you would have no doubt who was teaching your kids. you could shelter them from all that is undesireable for you and your family.

Cupofkindness:

Tinkerbell and Forest-Pine, thank you for your replies. Spiritblows, I hear where your coming from and I’m sorry for your childhood experiences. I have suffered the same sort of things from the various “arrangements” my divorced parents had as I was growing up in San Francisco during the 1970s. And since I grew up in that part of the country, I have had more than my fair share of experiences with gay men, including gay teachers (my French teacher). And I would say that a lone gay teacher wouldn’t upset me so much per se, it’s just that two gay counselors living together at a Catholic school that I find so deeply objectionable. Should the boys at this school have these men held up as role models who are there to help them sort out their direction in life? Why can’t the school hire good Catholic men who are happily married with children? And you’re right, it costs us dearly to send our children to this school.

 

[TarAshly]

Not exactly, the Catechism teaches that Homosexuals should not be discriminated against, or treated unkindly in any way shape or form. so im being influenced by the Catechism.

spiritblows:

Dear Cup of K,
The school is probably influenced by the attitudes of the larger society and thinks that they shouldn’t be ‘judgemental’ and must show their ‘tolerance’. Unfortunately, the mass media, which is in the hands of those with liberal values, has brainwashed much of our society on this matter.

I agree with you, it’s a public scandal. Unfortunately, the school is probably also concerned with legal matters that will influence this decision. They might be opening themselves up for a lawsuit if they fired these men in our current climate we live in.
**and the men should sue them if they are fired over unfounded rumors and gossip. **

I think it’s naive of anyone to think that if 2 men have bought a house together, that they’re just roomates, btw. That’s totally unrealistic thinking, IMO.

so my husband and his college buddies who all lived in a house together, to split the rent and expenses while they were students…thats not allowed? that makes them gay? all but one is married now and the one single is in a steady relationship with a female.

 

[TarAshly]

Wabrams is right, my husband is a home owners insurance specialist. we have two homes that have this type of situation. Bachelor pads basically. more often than not its guys right out of medical or law school. just to save money and they will be working so much it wont matter whos there.

spiritblows:

Well, I stand corrected then. You learn a new thing every day. I really had no idea about this trend.

 

[TarAshly]

Katie1723:

Excuse me, but isn’t gossiping a sin? And unless you have been in their bedroom/s you have no right whatsoever to question their habits anymore than they would yours. It sounds to me like all you have are a bunch of gossipy people trying to start something.Suppose someone saw you hugging a girlfriend?? would you want them to think you are lesbian?? And as far as people living together, it is possible to live WITH someone and NOT be “involved” sexually. You assume far too much and you know what they say about assuming…never assume lest you make an a** of u and me.

CupofK…as I see it, the only delicate problem you have is that of minding your own business.

~ Kathy ~

I agree Cathy, my best friend and i rented an apartment together, just the two of us, one bedroom apartment (twin beds) and we hugged each other a lot, we are both married now, she even has a baby. nothing homosexual about that, just two good friends living together. Now is it different because we are women?