When Two Men Live Together

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Cupofkindness:
I want to thank those of you who have posted supportive replies that have helped me clarify my thinking.thank you to everyone who told her what she wanted to hear. we who oppose your views are not trying to be uncharitable, we are just simply offering a different opinion. sorry if i offended, i just simply wanted to offer you a different point of view.

I agree with Spiritblows and those others who believe that we should expect the best in the way of the character of teachers and counselors in Catholic schools. It is completely justifiable to expect that these people, who are forming the future generations of the Church, to live to the highest standard proclaimed in the Gospel: “Be perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect.” Every Catholic should strive to live with this end in mind. so many do try but it seems as if we dont live to certain peoples standards we are failing miserably and should be punished or something. I try in every way to imitate Mary and Jesus in their CHARITY and all other things, i can not be perfect i am human. Thank God for confession. Im sure you’ve been there before too. as has every teacher in that school most likely.

As to those of you who accuse me of idle gossiping, let me repeat myself one more time: the information I have is not gossip. These are facts reported to me by people whom I trust. I believe the teenager that said this as much as I believe the adult. These are good Catholic people who have no more reason to distort the truth than I do. Would your replies have been any different if a third party reported seeing them kissing? Would that fact add more credibility to my case? ok i was a teenager, i dont care how good you are, if a teacher ticks you off or the situation makes a good story they are going for it. and it doesnt make them bad at all, it makes them young and immature and a teenager. and some adults are not much more mature than teenagers, i cant help but wonder if your friend (the adult) really truly believed this was such a problem, why didnt she got to the headmaster herself? why gossip about it? why try and send you to do the dirty work? this is purely out of concern for your cup, it just sounds fishy to me, and YES if they had seen them kissing that would be totally different!

Remember, I never asked for help discerning whether their living situation was sinful or not. Yet so many of you have deemed my actions intolerant and unchristian because you believe I’m making a wrong assumption. not a wrong assumption dear friend, just an assumption. assumptions are dangerous, especially in a situation like this.

After discussing the startling amount of antagonism I’ve received here with my DH, we can only conclude that all of the relentless work that the gay rights movement of the past generation to change perceptions about homosexuality, to make that lifestyle “just another color of the rainbow,” a lifestyle as good as a hetrosexual one (just different!) have been sadly successful in eroding the fundamental values of a large number of Catholics. **not true, i personally dont believe in homosexual marriage, i believe being a homosexual is a sin, but i also believe what the catechism says about showing them kindness and charity and not discrimination. again you paint to broad a stroke with that big red paint brush. **This is evident in so many of the posts that declare that what happens behind closed doors are none of anyone’s business. **I dont think thats what the posters meant (forgive me if i am wrong) I think where you put that what goes on in peoples bedroom IS your business, i think that rubbed people the wrong way. **This is quite a victory for gay rights activists at the expense of the truth. I have no doubt that the situation at this Catholic school represents the spoils of this battle. Cup youre painting again. you still dont know the truth of the situation.

The concept of sin is watered down thanks to the godless relativism of our time. For many unfortunate souls, ‘sin’ is a useless expression that has no meaning for them. They will find out in the end what God thought of their ‘lifestyle.’ **thats very harsh. do you assume to know God’s heart and what he will do with the homosexuals? We should all care about the truth and how it applies to everyone we know. agreed but we can not be the morals police. not even all Catholics live correctly, and the Catholics who would assume they do should examine their concious and head for the priest, no one is perfect or even CLOSE except for Christ himself. In both the Bible and in Church teachings homosexual behavior is called a grave sin. Why are some of you so quick to defend it? I can only conclude that several of you think that homosexuality is completely acceptable. How regrettable. again that whole assuming thing. /**QUOTE]
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and she shouldnt have to. again certain things are between a person and their priest.
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Bella3502:
We have a woman teaching in our Catholic High School, who had her tubes tied after her 3 baby 10 years ago. She signed such a “statement” in order to teach in the school. No one asked her if she had her tubes tied. She didn’t lie, but she didn’t disclose either.
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Katie1723:
On the flip side, when you put yourself in a position such as that of teacher, you darn well better know that you will be called to task for your actions.

~ Kathy ~
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Kathy i agree with pretty much everything you said here. However the said fact of the matter is that this statement i quoted here is a large factor in why we are so short teachers in this country. In other countries teachers are held in a high regard, as scholars and educators. Here parents treat them like glorified babysitters and pee ons. I am in school to be a teacher and this is one aspect i am SEVERLY dreading. my mother in law is a teacher, my husband was a teacher until he quit because of parents and the garbage they dump on the classrooms. My husband taught special education and some idiot parent claimed they saw my husband pinch a child. when they reviewed the tapes in the classroom it was VERY clear that my husband was trying to pick the child (an 18 year old man i should say, the student was heavier than my husband) trying to pick him up off of the floor using a technique which is not a pinch, its a hold they are taught and instructed to use when a child is being difficult. He was absolved completely and the district offered to renew his contract. he did not accept thank God and he gets a call every year from that same school district wanting him back. He will never go back, because a parent didnt know what she was talking about, threatened to sue my husband and tried to have him fired, she made our lives a living hell for months over this. when he was clearly innocent. This is the problem Cup, check your facts! and parents please be kind to your childrens teachers, they have one of the hardest jobs in the world, get paid dirt for salaries (especially in most Catholic schools) but they do it because they care. no one becomes a teacher because they wanna get rich quick…or ever for that matter.
 
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Cupofkindness:
I want to thank those of you who have posted supportive replies that have helped me clarify my thinking. LSK, thank you so much for the passages from the Catechism on Chastity and Homosexuality.That is exacly what I was looking for. I appreciate that you took the time to post that information. I will be spending some time in prayer reflecting on what that means with respect to this situation.

I agree with Spiritblows and those others who believe that we should expect the best in the way of the character of teachers and counselors in Catholic schools. It is completely justifiable to expect that these people, who are forming the future generations of the Church, to live to the highest standard proclaimed in the Gospel: “Be perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect.” Every Catholic should strive to live with this end in mind.

As to those of you who accuse me of idle gossiping, let me repeat myself one more time: the information I have is not gossip. These are facts reported to me by people whom I trust. I believe the teenager that said this as much as I believe the adult. These are good Catholic people who have no more reason to distort the truth than I do. Would your replies have been any different if a third party reported seeing them kissing? Would that fact add more credibility to my case?

What I find worthy of note is how many of those posting on this thread are defending these men in question and taking me to task for even questioning this situation at all. Remember, I never asked for help discerning whether their living situation was sinful or not. Yet so many of you have deemed my actions intolerant and unchristian because you believe I’m making a wrong assumption.

After discussing the startling amount of antagonism I’ve received here with my DH, we can only conclude that all of the relentless work that the gay rights movement of the past generation to change perceptions about homosexuality, to make that lifestyle “just another color of the rainbow,” a lifestyle as good as a hetrosexual one (just different!) have been sadly successful in eroding the fundamental values of a large number of Catholics. This is evident in so many of the posts that declare that what happens behind closed doors are none of anyone’s business. This is quite a victory for gay rights activists at the expense of the truth. I have no doubt that the situation at this Catholic school represents the spoils of this battle.

The concept of sin is watered down thanks to the godless relativism of our time. For many unfortunate souls, ‘sin’ is a useless expression that has no meaning for them. They will find out in the end what God thought of their ‘lifestyle.’ We should all care about the truth and how it applies to everyone we know. In both the Bible and in Church teachings homosexual behavior is called a grave sin. Why are some of you so quick to defend it? I can only conclude that several of you think that homosexuality is completely acceptable. How regrettable.
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Hi Cupofkindness!

This notion that you have of avoiding any and all contact with the men in question and relying upon hearsay to threaten another’s livelihood, I have difficulty characterizing as anything other than an act of cowardice. It may be understandable given the irrational emotionalism that surrounds this issue but it is certainly not conduct becoming of a soldier of Christ.

In the end, someone is going to have to go up to one or both of these men and ask them all of the uncomfortable questions to find out what the truth really is. I merely suggested that if it was an issue so important to you that you be the one to do it. Instead, it seems, you want to delegate that responsibility to someone else. Irrespective of whatever falsehoods these men may be bestowing upon the student body, what lesson might a child take from this episode? Simply that when confronted with evil the best thing to do is remain in the shadows and wait for others to do the messy work of directly opposing it.
 
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spiritblows:
Dear Katie,
I disagree with you. Scripture says that we are to avoid even “the appearance of evil”. Read Proverbs. It’s full of references to the importance of keeping one’s good name intact. Obviously, these two men have not hidden their living arrangements, nor made any attempt to explain it.

I personally think that Catholic schools should only hire Catholics in good standing with the Church. Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t Nuns do the majority of the teaching in Catholic schools, once upon a time?

Also, I don’t think this is a ‘gay’ thing. I think all the teachers should be held to high standards. Hey, teachers have a way of infusing their own philosophies into their teaching. I remember teachers doing so all the time. Catholic schools should be taught by Catholic teachers, period, in my ever so humble opinion…
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In my small town, our Catholic School teachers earn about $7,000 less than if they worked at a public school. It is not about holding up a standard that only Catholic teachers teach, but who is willing to take such a drastic pay cut, and who is dedicated enough to do so. Our senior teacher is Lutheran, and probably the best teacher we have.
 
Other Eric:
Hi Cupofkindness!

This notion that you have of avoiding any and all contact with the men in question and relying upon hearsay to threaten another’s livelihood, I have difficulty characterizing as anything other than an act of cowardice. It may be understandable given the irrational emotionalism that surrounds this issue but it is certainly not conduct becoming of a soldier of Christ.

In the end, someone is going to have to go up to one or both of these men and ask them all of the uncomfortable questions to find out what the truth really is. I merely suggested that if it was an issue so important to you that you be the one to do it. Instead, it seems, you want to delegate that responsibility to someone else. Irrespective of whatever falsehoods these men may be bestowing upon the student body, what lesson might a child take from this episode? Simply that when confronted with evil the best thing to do is remain in the shadows and wait for others to do the messy work of directly opposing it.
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Yes, I agree. St Paul said that very thing. The first thing to do is go to the men and ask them, then if that doesn’t work, take a witness. But, if the school has no policy in place, there is probably nothing that can be done.

I personally wouldn’t have a problem with a gay man as long as he kept it totally to himself and was private about his life. But, this is more complicated because his apparent ‘partner’ also works at the school. It is quite ackward and people, including some kids, are starting to wonder what’s going on. I think they owe it to the 2 men to allow them to explain themselves. What’s wrong with simply asking them?
 
Other Eric:
Hi Cupofkindness!

This notion that you have of avoiding any and all contact with the men in question and relying upon hearsay to threaten another’s livelihood, I have difficulty characterizing as anything other than an act of cowardice. It may be understandable given the irrational emotionalism that surrounds this issue but it is certainly not conduct becoming of a soldier of Christ.

In the end, someone is going to have to go up to one or both of these men and ask them all of the uncomfortable questions to find out what the truth really is. I merely suggested that if it was an issue so important to you that you be the one to do it. Instead, it seems, you want to delegate that responsibility to someone else. Irrespective of whatever falsehoods these men may be bestowing upon the student body, what lesson might a child take from this episode? Simply that when confronted with evil the best thing to do is remain in the shadows and wait for others to do the messy work of directly opposing it.
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AMEN!

KB
 
Also, if so choose to confront this situation, you had better be armed with a whole lot more than “someone saw”…or “I heard that”…In other words…go with a whole lot more than suppositions and innuendos. Get some solid evidence that corroborates your story.

Like another poster said…do the work YOURSELF if you are so positive about the situation.

And something else you might consider, what happens if you are wrong?

~ Kathy ~
 
Come to think of it, my brother and a college classmate rented a townhouse together back in the 80s. I can assure you they were not gay at all. So you need more proof than just “someone said” or the rumor mills of the students. These days the subject is so much in the news the children may not realize that they run the risk of either calumny or detraction if the allegations are not true. This is also a sin and can damage a person’s reputation beyond repair.
 
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goofyjim:
Come to think of it, my brother and a college classmate rented a townhouse together back in the 80s. I can assure you they were not gay at all. So you need more proof than just “someone said” or the rumor mills of the students. These days the subject is so much in the news the children may not realize that they run the risk of either calumny or detraction if the allegations are not true. This is also a sin and can damage a person’s reputation beyond repair.
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I do believe that is the one that says “Thou shall not bear false witness against thy neighbor”👍

KB
 
How about something like this:

“‘Tom’ there’s been some talk going around about you and ‘John’. Rather than indulging in hearsay, we thought we’d go directly to you. Since this is a Catholic school, some are concerned regarding your living arrangements. Word has gotten around that you and John have bought a house together and many believe that you are living as a gay couple. Even some of the students are aware of these suspicions, which is creating somewhat of a scandal. Could you explain this to us? We thought that any continued speculation not based on the facts would be harmful, so thought it would be better to ask you directly.”
 
I think thats a good idea, to confront the men head on. rather than risking them losing their jobs and livelyhood over rumors and lies.
 
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