WHEN was the earliest Liturgy we would recognize today?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ravyn_Guiliani
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
R

Ravyn_Guiliani

Guest
WHEN was the earliest Liturgy we would recognize today? I just read Justin Martyr’s First Apology c. 150AD and it mentions the prayers and blessing of bread and wine and the partaking and then the collection for the poor, but about when would the Liturgy become something that resembles what we have in our current Missals? (I do not wish this to turn into a debate over STYLE of Liturgy–just want to know when the basic form we use of specific prayers and responses and such became the norm.) thanks.
 
Ravyn_Guiliani said:
WHEN was the earliest Liturgy we would recognize today? I just read Justin Martyr’s First Apology c. 150AD and it mentions the prayers and blessing of bread and wine and the partaking and then the collection for the poor, but about when would the Liturgy become something that resembles what we have in our current Missals? (I do not wish this to turn into a debate over STYLE of Liturgy–just want to know when the basic form we use of specific prayers and responses and such became the norm.) thanks.
Click to expand...
Justin is the most complete. There are others like the Didache that have bit and pieces. The Order of the Mass has constantly changed over the centuries.
 
Br.Rich_SFO said:
I not aware of the history of the Eastern Liturgies. When was this Liturgy composed originally?
Click to expand...
It is likely that major elements were written by the saint himself. It is deffinatly in a form similar to what is now used by the third century.
 
Br.Rich_SFO said:
I not aware of the history of the Eastern Liturgies. When was this Liturgy composed originally?
Click to expand...
There are no extant early copies of this liturgy. I think generally the copies most commonly reproduced are from the 8th-9th centuries. A modified form is used in the Syriac Churches, another recension in the Maronite and yet another occasionally (once or so) in the Byzantine tradition. However, certain similarities are seen between it and the discourses of St. Cyril of Jerusalem (but also certain differences).

The two primary divisions that may be made are between the Greek and Syriac texts (the Greek text is what is provided at NewAdvent) The original St. James is kind of reconstructed by scholars- but even then, then are unsure because both (Greek and Syriac) the earliest extant versions might have been modified. The early Syriac text is thought to be more ancient than the Greek one.

The modern texts though have altered the intercessions, the Institution and slight places elsewhere. Moreover, based on derivations from the Catechesis of St. Cyril (or pseudo-Cyril, whichever) and the fact that St. James is commonly ascribed to Jerusalem, there are certain conjunctures about various parts. For e.g. that the section between the Institution and Epicelsis is Alexandrian in nature and borrowed.
 
The Liturgy of St James is accepted by the Eastern Churches as being written by him. The above information I have read before and I do not believe is accurate. The Liturgy is still celebrated on a daily basis in monasteries throughout the world in Aramaic and Arabic. This is just a housewifes description of events, but my understanding. In the early centuries the people would process through the streets on the way to church - Hagai Sophia - there were hymns and songs that developed through these processions that happened each time. So Sts John Chrysostom and Basil, reorganized the DL and added these hymns troparions and kontakions (there are also other names) to it, and brought about more order. So that is why as surgei said it contains the same elements. One of the differences in the two is the length of the silent prayers taken by the priest.
 
mliles.com/melkite/apostlejamesbrotherchrist.shtml 23 October and Sunday after the Great Feast of the Nativity According to the Flesh of Holy God the Son within the Holy Trinity / Our Lord, God and Savior, Jesus Christ - (Commemoration of the Holy and Just Man Joseph, spouse of The Theotokos; of James, brother of the Lord; and of David, the King and Prophet- St. James the Apostle, the Brother of the Lord and First Bishop of Jerusalem, strenthened the Church in Jersusalem). St. James the Apostle, the Brother of the Lord and First Bishop of Jerusalem,wrote one Epistle. He suffered martyrdom at a very advanced age in 62 AD, being thrown from the parapet of the Temple in Jerusalem. Biography The parentage of St James the Apostle, the Brother of the Lord and First Bishop of Jerusalem is not certain. According to many Oriental Church Fathers, James is the son of “Cleophas” or “Clopas” (also called “Alpheus”) and Mary. Cleophas or Clopas was the brother of St. Joseph, the foster father or step father of Holy God the Son within the Holy Trinity / Our Lord, God and Savior, Jesus Christ. Mary was the first cousin of The Theotokos. In that culture, the word “brother” refered to blood brothers, half brothers, step brothers, and first cousins. According to many Oriental Church Fathers, St James the Apostle, the Brother of the Lord and First Bishop of Jerusalem is the blood brother of Saint Simon the Apostle and Saint Jude or Thaddeus the Apostle. According to many Oriental Church Fathers, St James the Apostle, the Brother of the Lord and First Bishop of Jerusalem is same person as James, son of Alpheus, who was one of the original twelve Apostles. Other Oriental Church Fathers believe that these two James are two different people. According to many Oriental Church Fathers who believe that St James the Apostle, the Brother of the Lord and First Bishop of Jerusalem is same person as James, son of Alpheus; St James the Apostle, the Brother of the Lord and First Bishop of Jerusalem is also called Holy Hieromartyr James the Lesser.
 
Pani_Rose said:
The Liturgy of St James is accepted by the Eastern Churches as being written by him. The above information I have read before and I do not believe is accurate.
Click to expand...
I’m a bit curious to why you don’t believe it is fully accurate. Could you recommended resources to read up this?
 
One can recognize the Divine Liturgy in some early second century paintings in various archaeological finds.

Which divine liturgy is questionable…

Given that the liturgy of St James is cited as dating to approximately 370 in its earliest surviving form (Orthodox Wiki), and St Basils reforms could not occur until he was in position to do so (370)…

But likewise, one would probably recognize the prior liturgies well back to that described by Justin Martyr, and the 1913 Catholic Encyclopedia has a wonderful synopsis of the early liturgy derived from Justin Martyr, which predates his 167 AD death:
1913 Encyclopedia:
Putting it all together we have this scheme of the service:
Code: 
* 1. Lessons (lxvii, 3).
* 2. Sermon by the bishop (lxvii, 4).
* 3. Prayers for all people (lxvii, 5; lxv, 1).
* 4. Kiss of peace (lxv, 2).
* 5. Offertory of bread and wine and water brought up by the deacons (lxvii, 5; lxv, 3).
* 6. Thanksgiving-prayer by the bishop (lxvii, 5; lxv, 3).
* 7. Consecration by the words of institution (? lxv, 5; lxvi, 2-3).
* 8. Intercession for the people (lxvii, 5; lxv, 3).
* 9. The people end this prayer with Amen. (lxvii, 5; lxv, 3).
* 10. Communion (lxvii, 5; lxv 5).
Click to expand...
newadvent.org/cathen/09306a.htm

Note that all elements exist in almost all known early liturgies which survive; ccel.org hosts an english edition of the apostolic constitutions, including a treatise containing translations of a number of early liturgies: ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf07.xii.i.html

So you would probably recognize most if you observed the whole liturgy. At least, by the second century, the concept of a liturgy and a (at least localized) ritualization of the Holy Sacrifice was present in several accounts, and those accounts show us something which we would recognize, and see as kin to our own forms. What the rubrics were? it could vary.

Some paintings show the entire assembly gathered around the Altar Table, while others show a clear celebrants and faithful distinction; some are ad populam, some ad orientam.
 
The Liturgy of St. James was written by the Apostle St. James himself, the brother of our Lord and the First Bishop of Jerusalem. He celebrated this Liturgy (the Holy Qurbana) on Wednesday after the Pentecost Sunday in St Mark’s monastery (‘Upper Room’). This Liturgy is the source of all the eastern liturgies which is the ancient right of Jerusalem. The Judeo-Christian character of this Liturgy itself is an evidence for its origin in Jerusalem. The Bible witnesses that the Apostle St. James was a pillar of the Jerusalem church (Acts 15; Gal 2: 9) and he had a definite role in the formation of first Christian mode of Liturgy. In the Syrian liturgical family the so called Antiochean right is divided in two, the West Syrian and East Syrian liturgies. The East Syrian Liturgy is most commonly used by the Nestorian Church; it includes the anaphoras of Nestorius, Adai and Mari and Theodore of Mopsuestia. The West Syrian right is used by Syrian Orthodox , Syrian Catholic and Maronite churches… socdigest.org/articles/05feb05.html
 
It depends on who is the “we” that is doing the recognizing.

If by “we”, you mean the typical Latin Catholic, I would assume the description given in the Roman Ordines would be the earliest description recognized.
 
bpbasilphx said:
It depends on who is the “we” that is doing the recognizing.

If by “we”, you mean the typical Latin Catholic, I would assume the description given in the Roman Ordines would be the earliest description recognized.
Click to expand...
Well at the time, “WE” were one. It is my understanding that ‘WE’ breath with both lungs. Now the question was ‘what was is the earliest form of liturgy we recognize today’. One can use the Jerusalem Liturgy if you like. A bit of explanation follows…

Liturgy of Jerusalem

The Rite of Jerusalem is that of Antioch. That is to say, the Liturgy that became famous as the use of the patriarchical church of Antioch, that through the influence of that Church spread throughout Syria and Asia Minor, and was the starting point of the development of the Byzantine rite, is itself originally the local liturgy, not of Antioch, but of Jerusalem. It is no other than the famous liturgy of St. James. That it was actually composed by St. James the Less, as first Bishop of Jerusalem, is not now believed by any one; but two forms in it show that it was originally used as local rite of the city of Jerusalem. There is a reference to the Cross among the prayers for catechumens–“Lift up the horn of the Christians by the power of the venerable and life-giving cross”–that is always supposed to be a reference to St. Helena’s invention of the True Cross at Jerusalem in the early fourth century. If so, this would also give an approximate date, at any rate for that prayer. A much clearer local allusion is in the Intercession, after the Epiklesis: “We offer to thee, O Lord, for thy holy places which thou hast glorified by the divine appearance of thy Christ and by the coming of thy Holy Spirit” (these are the various sanctuaries of Palestine) “especially for holy and glorious Sion, mother of all Churches” (Sion, in Christian language, is always the local Church of Jerusalem. See JERUSALEM.) “and for thy holy Catholic and Apostolic Church throughout the whole world” (kata pasan ten oikoumenen, which always may mean, “throughout the whole Empire”). This reference, then, the only one to any local Church in the whole liturgy – the fact that the Intercession, in which they pray for every kind of person and cause, begins with a prayer for the Church of Jerusalem, is a sure index of the place of origin.

newadvent.org/cathen/08371a.htm
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top