When we teach Truth are we telling people not to think?

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nickybr38

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A branch from this thread: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=634924&page=4

In response to rhiannonh but of course all are welcome to weigh in. 🙂 If you want to see what I am responding to just visit the original thread but I think the question stands on it’s own fairly well…

If you know something to be true… do you allow those in your care to think contrary to that truth?

For example. Would you allow your niece to believe that the earth is protected by a giant glass bowl? If she were to voice this belief to you would you correct her or would you let her go on with her incorrect thinking?

The Catholic Church is like our mother. She instructs us. She guides us. She corrects our misinformed ideas. She contains the fullness of truth.

We can think all we want but she has truth.

If we want to think that God is female that’s fine but the Church WILL tell us we’re wrong. Period. She is not afraid to do so and it is, in fact, her duty to correct us.

So then seeing things from this angle… what is wrong with authority? What is wrong with those who have been trusted with our care correcting us when we go astray?

Ideas CAN hurt. If we think the wrong things, if we foster unhealthy ideas about God and His church that could potentially damage us spiritually quite a bit AND it can make us targets for the ‘false shepherds’ that Jesus warns us about in Scripture. The Church knows this and so she corrects us when we fall into error.

Does that make sense?
 
nickybr38 said:
Would you allow your niece to believe that the earth is protected by a giant glass bowl?
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Funny you should mention that, because in the late 1500’s & early 1600’s the Church actually believed the earth was in a crystal bowl. The Catholic Church professed the celestial sphere orbs theory developed by Aristotle. In these celestial models, the stars and planets are carried around by being embedded in rotating crystal spheres moving around the Earth.
 
Voting4Life said:
Funny you should mention that, because in the late 1500’s & early 1600’s the Church actually believed the earth was in a crystal bowl. The Catholic Church professed the celestial sphere orbs theory developed by Aristotle. In these celestial models, the stars and planets are carried around by being embedded in rotating crystal spheres moving around the Earth.
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🙂 Way to pick apart my analogy. 😉

But I hope you know what I meant by the example rather then choosing to pick apart the example.

The original comment that sparked this, btw, was that the Church seems to encourage people not to think.

Edited to Add: And when I say the Church teaches truth I am speaking only about issues of faith and morals.
 
Wow, anyone who thinks the Church teaching truth means that then we stop thinking has not really thought about Church teachings! What a mental workout this has been for me!
 
I know what you mean. Many members in my former church say that Christian romance novels (the ones that don’t have any references to sex) are evil or sinful. One woman even went so far to say it was a form of “porn for women” because they stimulate a woman’s sexuality. I don’t agree with this. There are other positive elements to romance and romance novels besides sex. A lot of them are about people who are struggling with their faith, and find their way spiritually. I am not saying there is not better stuff to read out there for Christians. But to say they are sinful seems to be going to an extreme. If the authors are promoting sexual purity and chastity, how is this sinful? I feel those people in the church had an idea about it in their heads, and people assumed that since this person was a pastor, everything he believed and said was “according to scripture.” This bothers me.
I think if taken to far, these kinds of ideas can mislead people to believe things that are not necessarily true and can cause deception. That is why people need a personal knowledge of the scripture so they can tell when something mentioned in the church contradicts scripture.
 
Jesusismyfriend said:
I know what you mean. Many members in my former church say that Christian romance novels (the ones that don’t have any references to sex) are evil or sinful. One woman even went so far to say it was a form of “porn for women” because they stimulate a woman’s sexuality. I don’t agree with this. There are other positive elements to romance and romance novels besides sex. A lot of them are about people who are struggling with their faith, and find their way spiritually. I am not saying there is not better stuff to read out there for Christians. But to say they are sinful seems to be going to an extreme. If the authors are promoting sexual purity and chastity, how is this sinful? I feel those people in the church had an idea about it in their heads, and people assumed that since this person was a pastor, everything he believed and said was “according to scripture.” This bothers me.
I think if taken to far, these kinds of ideas can mislead people to believe things that are not necessarily true and can cause deception. That is why people need a personal knowledge of the scripture so they can tell when something mentioned in the church contradicts scripture.
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This doesn’t necessarily apply to the Catholic Church. Things that the Catholic Church teach about morality and faith are pretty well documented. A priest can tell his congregation that Jesus was not truly divine BUT his congregation does not have to take him at his word, they can turn to the Church to confirm or deny his statement.

Scripture is not clear on issues that we face today. How we know what to do about contraception and what to do about abortion and other such issues can not be clearly tackled just with Scripture. It’s just not that easy. Besides which, take ten Christians, give them all the same Bible verse and they’ll all have a different understanding of what that verse means. We need the Church to guide us in truth. There’s just no way around it.

Without the Church we are all in little sailboats by ourselves with nothing but a book that was written two thousand years ago that we may or may not understand.

But I am uncertain what rhiannonh meant by her original statement so I eagerly await her response.
 
Telling people “this is how things are, and they cannot change and anything else is incorrect” is of course telling people not to think, in a way. You don’t need to make your own opinions on the Bible as we tell you the correct ones to think. So in a way, I agree. This of course isn’t necessarily a bad thing - school, whether at home or public/private teaches you how to think.
 
I always wondered that. But then I realized they SHOULD think. Believing what you are told does make you Christian. Thinking on what you are told and still agreeing with it does.
 
Not quite what I was originally saying :tiphat:

Gods love is simple. :hug3:

We make it hard for ourselves :juggle:

Why is that? :gopray:
 
rhiannonh said:
Not quite what I was originally saying :tiphat:

Gods love is simple. :hug3:

We make it hard for ourselves :juggle:

Why is that? :gopray:
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I thought you wanted to discuss what I had said, not twist it into something to suit own discussion…🤷
 
rhiannonh said:
I thought you wanted to discuss what I had said, not twist it into something to suit own discussion…🤷
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I do want to discuss what you said. Up to now I have been conversing with others about how they interpreted things. But I would love to hear what you originally meant and your response to the ideas shared here.

I can promise that I won’t make fun of your ideas but I can’t promise what others will or won’t do.

PS: That’s the problem with public discussions. They very easily get twisted but now is your opportunity to clarify what you meant. 🙂
 
I am not bothered about being made fun off

but when you set something out so that everyone misunderstands what is really being said, then its a lost cause.

we can discuss this maturally or you can play games

the choice is yours because it don’t matter to me. The above posts suggests you’d rather play games. its your choice
 
rhiannonh said:
I am not bothered about being made fun off

but when you set something out so that everyone misunderstands what is really being said, then its a lost cause.

we can discuss this maturally or you can play games

the choice is yours because it don’t matter to me. The above posts suggests you’d rather play games. its your choice
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I have no idea what you’re talking about? I don’t wish to play games, I wish to hear why you believe the Church encourages us not to think.

Until you answer I can only speculate and discuss other ideas which have been put forth (which may or may not be ideas you prescribe to).

You asked me to start this thread, so I did… You can choose to weigh in or not. That’s up to you. In the end I only wish to know why you believe the Church encourages us not to think. That’s all.
 
Go back to the orginal post I made on that.

I worry that the church encourages us all not to think because of the type of responses I have read on here. I have posted before about the usage of duty in encouragement of each other. We go to church etc because we love God. Its simple. We go to church when we are emotional, whatever the emotion is of God because that emotion shows that we love God.

To tell someone they should because it duty and obligation to, because that is what is being taught… that to me does not encourage thinking. Just roboticness. God didn’t make us as robots but made us free to serve. The message given out through various threads here suggests you all go to church out of obligation and duty and not therefore being free to serve.

God is put in this kind of box so that we are able to understand him better. The Roman Catholic box, The Anglican Box, the Methodist Box, the Ecumenical Box, the free church box… Which ever God is boxed in we all follow what the church teaches us. Sometimes we need to think outside and really work out that we go because we are indeed, free to serve God, not out of duty or obligation but out of love. think outside the box to bring us nearer to the God we are taught to love and serve.

Okay so what about those negative moments in our lives when everything else is failing or we feel like stopping going to church etc. It is easier to keep going when you are free to serve God rather than when someone tells you, you should do so.

May be and I will agree that may be its samentics here that could be at fault etc, with the difference between thinking and duty… Thinking means that you are free to serve and love God. Duty means that one has to serve and love God. In the way I see it. Whether its right or wrong, I do not know and will give that to God. Its just the way I see it based on a lot of posts made here.
 
rhiannonh said:
Go back to the orginal post I made on that.

I worry that the church encourages us all not to think because of the type of responses I have read on here. I have posted before about the usage of duty in encouragement of each other. We go to church etc because we love God. Its simple. We go to church when we are emotional, whatever the emotion is of God because that emotion shows that we love God.

To tell someone they should because it duty and obligation to, because that is what is being taught… that to me does not encourage thinking. Just roboticness. God didn’t make us as robots but made us free to serve. The message given out through various threads here suggests you all go to church out of obligation and duty and not therefore being free to serve.

God is put in this kind of box so that we are able to understand him better. The Roman Catholic box, The Anglican Box, the Methodist Box, the Ecumenical Box, the free church box… Which ever God is boxed in we all follow what the church teaches us. Sometimes we need to think outside and really work out that we go because we are indeed, free to serve God, not out of duty or obligation but out of love. think outside the box to bring us nearer to the God we are taught to love and serve.

Okay so what about those negative moments in our lives when everything else is failing or we feel like stopping going to church etc. It is easier to keep going when you are free to serve God rather than when someone tells you, you should do so.

May be and I will agree that may be its samentics here that could be at fault etc, with the difference between thinking and duty… Thinking means that you are free to serve and love God. Duty means that one has to serve and love God. In the way I see it. Whether its right or wrong, I do not know and will give that to God. Its just the way I see it based on a lot of posts made here.
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Thank you for clarifying your position. 🙂 I appreciate that.

My response would be that sometimes when we don’t feel like worshiping or serving God, that is when duty saves us. Sometimes just going through the motions inspires emotion.

I understand your concern but as a Catholic who has never missed a Sunday Mass I can tell you that on the days when I LEAST feel like going to Mass I feel God’s blessing the most intensely. That duty pushes and encourages me to seek God, even when I don’t feel like it. That duty pushes and encourages me to love Him, even when I don’t feel Him.

I think where you might be getting confused is that for many of us (not all of us), we chose to accept these duties that the Church has given us. I was not born or raised Catholic. I came into the Church knowing full well what was expected of me and I made the choice to accept the obligation.

I can only speak from personal experience, but before I became Catholic I had the approach to faith that I could do what I wanted, when I wanted. If I didn’t feel like going to Church, I just didn’t go. If I didn’t feel like praying, I just didn’t pray. If I didn’t feel like spending time with God, I just didn’t… and because I had the option to just not do these things I drifted farther and farther away from God.

For me having a Church that says: You must do these things (go to Mass, observe Holy days, pray, etc. etc.) is a blessing. Having that restriction stops me from drifting away from God, even when I’m just going through the motions! (Believe it or not… I think God is pleased when we make the effort even when we don’t feel like making the effort).
 
We can all only speak from personal experience on here but a lot fail to remember that as they post their own stuff…

I did cover about going to services when least want to. However, all seem to aim at sundays easily enough. But there are 7 days in a week not 1 in 7. There aren’t always services available in your own specific church etc.

A lot is made of sundays but what about the rest of the week or are Roman Catholics only concerned with sundays?
 
rhiannonh said:
We can all only speak from personal experience on here but a lot fail to remember that as they post their own stuff…

I did cover about going to services when least want to. However, all seem to aim at sundays easily enough. But there are 7 days in a week not 1 in 7. There aren’t always services available in your own specific church etc.

A lot is made of sundays but what about the rest of the week or are Roman Catholics only concerned with sundays?
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We can attend Mass every single day. But Sunday is the day we remember Christ’s resurrection. It is mandatory because of this and because we are commanded to Remember the Sabbath (in Scripture). For Christians the Sabbath is the Lord’s Day. 🙂 And we Remember.
 
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