When were our souls created?

[Verita]

This week in RCIA our Deacon came and talked to us about the Creed. During the discussion he said that our souls are “eternal” and that they existed with God before they came down to inhabit our physical bodies.

My husband (my sponsor) and I are sure this is very, very wrong. However, the Catechism has little to say about it. Could anyone here shed some light on this problem?

 

[thistle]

This week in RCIA our Deacon came and talked to us about the Creed. During the discussion he said that our souls are “eternal” and that they existed with God before they came down to inhabit our physical bodies.

My husband (my sponsor) and I are sure this is very, very wrong. However, the Catechism has little to say about it. Could anyone here shed some light on this problem?

CCC 366 The Church teaches that every spiritual soul is created immediately by God - it is not “produced” by the parents - and also that it is immortal: it does not perish when it separates from the body at death, and it will be reunited with the body at the final Resurrection.

 

[FCEGM]

This week in RCIA our Deacon came and talked to us about the Creed. During the discussion he said that our souls are “eternal” and that they existed with God before they came down to inhabit our physical bodies.

My husband (my sponsor) and I are sure this is very, very wrong. However, the Catechism has little to say about it. Could anyone here shed some light on this problem?

Your Deacon isn’t a Mormon, is he?! In the strict sense, “eternal” refers to the uncreated nature of God Who has no beginning and no end. This, from Our Sunday Visitor’s Catholic Encyclopedia, is to the point:

Creatures can participate in God’s eternity, but they cannot be eternal in this strict sense. For this reason, Catholic theology has distinguished between eternity strictly speaking and the “aevum” or “aeviternity” which is enjoyed by spiritual substances (angels and human souls) whose life has a beginning but no end. It is in this sense that creaturely person are said to enjoy the eternal life of heaven.

Further, the teaching of the Church is that every individual soul was immediate created out of nothing by God.

Another quote, this time from Ludwig Ott’s Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma:

Creationism, taught by the vast majority of the Fathers, by the Schoomen, and by modern theology, holds that eacn individual soul is created by God out of nothing at the moment of its unitification with the body. This doctrine is not defined; it is, however, indirectly expressed in the decision of faith of the 5th Gernal Lateran Counsil (pro corporum, quibus infunditure, multitudine multiplicanda: D738). Pope Alexander VII, in a doctrinal assertion on the Immaculate Conception of Mary, which formed the basis of the dogmatic definition of Pius IX, speaks of the “creation and infusion” of her soul into the body (in primo instanti creationes atque infuisionis in corpus). . . Pope Pius XII, in the Encyclical “Humani generis,” teaches “The Catholic Faith obliges us to hold firmly that souls are immediately created by God.”

That should be enough to show your deacon his error. I hope this is the only bump in the road in your RCIA program.

 

[Verita]

Thanks for the great sources. I knew it was wrong. (I think it could even be called heresy.) But I wanted to have proof.

Sadly, I fear this is only the beginning of my problems with our Deacon. Our first sunday at this parish he taught heresy in the homily, and our first formal RCIA class he gave the most misleading and incomplete talk on Baptism I’ve ever heard. He even implied that he does not think Baptism is necessary for salvation. I fear that I’m going to be battling with him all year.

 

[FCEGM]

Thanks for the great sources. I knew it was wrong. (I think it could even be called heresy.) But I wanted to have proof.

Sadly, I fear this is only the beginning of my problems with our Deacon. Our first sunday at this parish he taught heresy in the homily, and our first formal RCIA class he gave the most misleading and incomplete talk on Baptism I’ve ever heard. He even implied that he does not think Baptism is necessary for salvation. I fear that I’m going to be battling with him all year.

Any chance of enrolling in RCIA at another (and better) parish?

 

[Verita]

I don’t know if there is anywhere better. And I also feel a sort of obligation for the other people in the class because I do know the Catholic faith. I studied it extensively before going to RCIA. I feel that if I leave and there is no one to point out his gross errors then the people I am leaving behind will end up with an entirely false impression on Catholic teaching.

 

[YinYangMom]

Does your pastor know what the deacon is teaching?
Does the Director of Religious Education know?
It should fall upon the pastor to correct the problem…
but I’m aware it’s quite possible these days to have the pastor agree with some erroneous teachings…
still, out of charity, it should be brought to his attention.

 

[Verita]

I think the Deacon is the director of religious education.

The problem is that everyone loves the Deacon and consider him an expert on all things Catholic. He is the one who usually gives the homily. I’ve only seen the Pastor do it a few times.

It’s going to be a challenge dealing with him, but I think it’s necessary. Everyone in this Church just soaks up every word he says as absolute truth.

 

[Damascus]

I think the Deacon is the director of religious education.

The problem is that everyone loves the Deacon and consider him an expert on all things Catholic. He is the one who usually gives the homily. I’ve only seen the Pastor do it a few times.

It’s going to be a challenge dealing with him, but I think it’s necessary. Everyone in this Church just soaks up every word he says as absolute truth.

You should stay. You have to do something and keeping an eye on him all the time is not your only option.
As another poster stated- go to the Pastor no matter how you view him.
That is number one. Why? because if after you bring this to his attention and he ignores or condones this stuff- now YOU have done your part with him.
Make sure you also send a letter to him - the first outlining your concerns and requesting a meeting with him. The second one as a follow up that summarizes what transpired at that meeting.

Number 2- you have to contact your Dean. (IF in your Arch it is structured this way) Call your Arch and ask them who he is and how to reach him. Phone call is not enough.
Once again, a letter.

Your Arch can give you the chain of command. But be honest and charitable all along the way.

This is serious.
I will pray for you to have the strength to do something to help this parish out.

The Arch will give you the information you need to go forward with this process.

 

[Verita]

Well, I’m glad others think it is as serious as I do. I wanted to talk to him about what he said on sunday but he rushed out before I had the chance. I also didn’t want to say anything in front of the class until I had some proof he was wrong.

I want to talk to him about it before I do anything else. But he is a busy man it seems.

Our RCIA class is such a mess. There are more “Team Member” than catechumens(?) and all of them seem to serve no other purpose that to say how they feel about the scripture readings for the day.

 

[Damascus]

Don’t worry. All these things may be happening for a good reason.
The first one that comes to mind is that YOU will be motivated to be a RCIA leader one day to insure proper insruction to others!

God works in mysterious ways.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

This week in RCIA our Deacon came and talked to us about the Creed. During the discussion he said that our souls are “eternal” and that they existed with God before they came down to inhabit our physical bodies.

My husband (my sponsor) and I are sure this is very, very wrong. However, the Catechism has little to say about it. Could anyone here shed some light on this problem?

Our souls are created by God out of nothing at the moment of our physical conception. The human soul is “Immortal” not “Eternal”.

 

[Verita]

Our souls are created by God out of nothing at the moment of our physical conception. The human soul is “Immortal” not “Eternal”.

My thoughts exactly. I was mainly looking for documentation on this.

Don’t worry. All these things may be happening for a good reason.
The first one that comes to mind is that YOU will be motivated to be a RCIA leader one day to insure proper insruction to others!

Actually, that is something I am interested in at some point.

 

[FCEGM]

I don’t know if there is anywhere better. And I also feel a sort of obligation for the other people in the class because I do know the Catholic faith. I studied it extensively before going to RCIA. I feel that if I leave and there is no one to point out his gross errors then the people I am leaving behind will end up with an entirely false impression on Catholic teaching.

:tiphat: God bless you with fortitude as you continue on your journey of faith! You will truly be doing a great work of charity in remaining there. It would be wonderful if all RCIA programs were like a nice picnic on the beach; too often they’re like landing on Omaha Beach on D-Day.