When were the Gospels written? And by whom?

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Ben…

You said:

The gospels were written 50+ years after Jesus had been gone. About 15+ years after Paul was full-fledged into his work of spreading his Gospel. And all the four gospels were written after all the Pauline Letters were in circulation.

If you check the prefaces to the Gospels in the New American version of the Bible, sponsored by the Bishops’ Committee of the
Confraternity of Christian Doctrine, the gospel according to Mark was written in the year 70 after the destruction of the Temple, the
gospel of Luke in 75, Matthew in 85 and John between 95 and 100
CE. Mind you, this is a Catholic report.

**Yup…but Jesus is with His established church via the Holy Spirit. **

Now, by whom were the gospels written? The writers were all Gentiles disciples of Paul, for two reasons: The first is that none
of the writings of the Nazarenes, disciples of Jesus was approved into the Canon of the NT due to their controversial character vis-a-vis the writings of Paul which were the partern used for the Canonization done in 327 CE by the Fathers of the Church. There were several other gospels which were rejected, that got either destroyed or hidden in the undergrounds of the Vatican.

The other reason why the gospels come from a Gentile pen is based on the fact that the authors had too poor a knowledge of being Jewish, and were too anxious to remove the blame for the death of Jesus from the Romans unto the Jews. This is Pauline influence, who all his life always kept a grudge against the Pharisees in general for having never allowed him to build a church in Israeli soil, and to the Nazarenes in particular.

**How do you know he kept a grudge? :confused: Why would Paul, Sha’ula who was a devout Jew…lifelong Torah observant Jew of the sect of the Pharisees, become a beacon of light for CHRISTIANITY???

Sha’ul belonged to one of the strictest sects of the Jews. “…I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee…” (Acts 23:6). He did not say; “I was a Pharisee, he said; “I am a Pharisee…yet he was still one of Christianities most prolific advocates for Christ…Why was that???

Sha’ul studied under the head of the Sanhedrin (the highest court in Judea). “…brought up in this city (Jerusalem) at the feet of Gamaliel…” (Acts 22:3). Sha’ul was himself most likely a member of the Sanhedrin, which fits perfectly the Jewish practice of stoning: “And cast him (Stephen) out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man’s feet whose name was Saul (Sha’ul).” (Acts 7:58). Since it was the responsibility of the members of the Sanhedrin to witness public stonings, Sha’ul was present (in an official capacity) at the stoning, while those who were witnesses against Stephen were required to cast the stones.

Why would such a convicted and headstrong hater of this new Jesus sect, which he believed was terribly blasphemous, and offensive to his God of the O.T., have such a huge change of heart, which, ultimately, imprisoned him, literally and metaphorically, for the rest of his natural life???

**
 
And who ever said that the Bishops are perfect? There has always been differences of opinion in the Church. Some of those differences are minor as in the NAB notes, some are major and result in a Council being called to sort them out.

You made several statements about the authorship of the Gospels. I asked you an honest question as to where you got your information so that I could further my studies. I find your answer about living the Jewish life to be evasive.

Since Jesus completed the Law and gave us a new Covenant why should the gospels and letters reflect only your version of Jewish thought?
Are you sure you wanna bring Jesus into this? I warn that you will be sorry you did. You didn’t quote but never mind, I’ll help you. The word down in Matthew 5:17 is not completed but fulfilled. He said, “Do not think I have come to abolish the Law; I have come to fulfill it.” And if you keep on reading, in verse 19 he warns all his People, the Jewish People, that we are all under the same obligation to observe the Law. It means that indeed, as he said, nothing was abolished. Even after Paul contradicted Jesus by insisting that he did abolish the Laws on the cross. (Ephe. 2:15) But between Jesus and Paul, it’s not too hard to choose whom to believe in.

Ben: 🙂
 
Most of the ideas being spread about today are the theories of German 19th century liberal biblical critics. They didn’t believe the bible and used several assumptions for their dating.

*Prophecy was impossible. therefore gospels mentioning the fall of Jerusalem “had” to be written after 70 AD. (Yes. that’s where their dating came from.)
*Mark was written first, and the others copied him, so they must be even later.
*The writers of the gospels were basically liars and cheats, who made most of it up as they went along, and were imposters of the claimed authors.

However the blindingly obvious dating clue is found in Luke and Acts. Acts ends abruptly when Paul was in Rome circa 63 AD. it does not record his martyrdom. Luke was written before Acts.** If Acts had been written AFTER the death of Paul it would surely have recorded it. Therefore we know that Acts and Luke were written before 63 AD, and perhaps merely 20 years after the crucifixion.** If Mark is earlier than Luke, then Mark was written even closer to the crucifixion.
 
CHAPTER XXI
THE UNFOLDING OF EVENTS
Undisputed dates in the list below are in bold type. The sequence of events concerning the Christian Community have been inserted, some tentatively, within this framework.
Year AD Event The Resurrection. The leaders of the Jews persecute the first Christians. Saul/Paul is converted. Matthew composes his Hebrew gospel/ liturgy in Palestine. Matthew`s gospel is translated into Greek. King Herod Agrippa executes the Apostle James the Great. Peter escapes and flees to Rome. The other apostles spread out from Palestine.

**44 ****King Herod Agrippa dies. **
**49 Jews and Christians expelled from Rome following riots. **Luke writes his gospel for the Gentiles, partly based on Matthews gospel. First of Pauls epistles; some influenced by Matthews gospel. Paul imprisoned by Romans. A copy of Matthew's Gospel taken to India. **54 ****Nero becomes emperor.** The Apostle James the Less, bishop of Jerusalem, killed by stoning. The Christians are expelled from the Temple. Luke completes his Acts of the Apostles. Paul asks Timothy to join him on a mission to Spain. Paul released from prison. Peter ordains Linus, Cletus and Clement as assistant bishops. Peter endorses Lukes gospel by using it in a series of talks. Mark issues a first transcript of Peters talks. Peter approves Marks transcript. Used as a Gospel. Luke`s gospel published as an authorised gospel. Acts issued with the authorisation of Paul and Peter. John writes twenty chapters of his Gospel.
**64 **July Rome devastated by fire.
**65 Spring **Nero commences persecution of Christians.Peter martyred. Linus replaces Peter as bishop of Rome. Mark issues second edition of Peter’s talks.
**66 **Jewish rebellion in Palestine. Paul goes to Spain.
**68 early ****Jerusalem surrounded for first time by Romans.
68 June **Suicide of Emperor Nero followed by civil strife. This leads to the Roman troops surrounding Jerusalem being withdrawn.
 
Paul returns from Spain and visits Asia and Crete. Paul writes an epistle to the Hebrew Christians in Jerusalem. The Hebrew Christians flee from Jerusalem to Pella. Paul again imprisoned in Rome and then martyred.**
69** Galba, Vitellius and Otho die trying to become emperors.
69
Vespasian becomes emperor and renews war in Palestine.
69
Romans surround Jerusalem for second time. Clement of Rome replies to Corinthians on behalf of Linus.
70 Aug Jerusalem, including its Temple, is destroyed. Linus dies (about 81). Cletus becomes bishop of Rome.**
91** Domitian starts persecution. Cletus dies (about 92). Clement becomes bishop of Rome. Jewish leaders (about 96) hold a conference at Jamnia. Clement, bishop of Rome, exiled by Romans to the Crimea. John the Apostle (About 96) adds final chapter to his gospel. John the Apostle dies.
98 Trojan becomes emperor. About 101 Clement dies and Evaristus becomes bishop of Rome.
About 130 Papias records that Mark wrote down Peters words. About 180 Ireneaus familiar with the Matthew-Luke-Mark sequence. About 200 First Latin translations (prologues). Matthew-John-Luke-Mark sequence. About 200 Clement of Alexandria says gospels of Matthew and Luke written first. About 212 Tertullian uses Luke prior to Mark sequence. About 250 Origen popularises Matthew-Mark-Luke sequence. **312-323** **Eusebius writes his Ecclesiastical History’.**
 
Are you sure you wanna bring Jesus into this? I warn that you will be sorry you did. You didn’t quote but never mind, I’ll help you. The word down in Matthew 5:17 is not completed but fulfilled. He said, “Do not think I have come to abolish the Law; I have come to fulfill it.” And if you keep on reading, in verse 19 he warns all his People, the Jewish People, that we are all under the same obligation to observe the Law. It means that indeed, as he said, nothing was abolished. Even after Paul contradicted Jesus by insisting that he did abolish the Laws on the cross. (Ephe. 2:15) But between Jesus and Paul, it’s not too hard to choose whom to believe in.

Ben: 🙂
Dear Ben,

The word that is translated as fulfill has connotations in the Greek that do not translate well into English. Here is the Strong’s definition;
G4137
πληρόω
plēroō
play-ro’-o
From G4134; to make replete, that is, (literally) to cram (a net), level up (a hollow), or (figuratively) to furnish (or imbue, diffuse, influence), satisfy, execute (an office), finish (a period or task), verify (or coincide with a prediction), etc.: - accomplish, X after, (be) complete, end, expire, fill (up), fulfil, (be, make) full (come), fully preach, perfect, supply.
I still think that complete is a better translation than fulfill. Personal opinion of course. 🙂

If the Law works why did Jesus say this just a few verses later?
Mat 5:20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
There are only a handful of people said to be righteous in the Bible. This seems to be a pretty tough entrance exam. Are you sure the Apostles were wrong when they told the gentile converts that they did not have to adhere to the letter of the Law?
 
Ben Masada;4864129]joe370;4863549]Ben…

How could a devout Jew and lifelong Torah observant Jew teach the Jews to abandon Moses, to give up the circumcision of their children and to renounce the Jewish customs? (Acts 21:21)

I am glad to hear that you suspect of something wrong here, when you ask how could Paul claim to be a Pharisee and at the same time a prolific advocate for Christ. If it quacks like a duck, obviously, it’s a duck. Since I am sure he was a prolific advocate for Christ, he was never a Pharisee. He might have said that because he was in some kind of trouble. Paul was
too cunny.

It couldn’t possibly be that God really revealed himself to Paul. :confused: Show me some proof that he was in some kind of trouble and I’ll consider your proposal, otherwise, a miracle/apparition of Christ is the only logical/plausible answer my friend. 👍

He was indeed a persecutor of the Sect of the Nazarenes, a Jewish sect organized by Jesus’ Apostles on his behalf. But since he realized that the more he physically persecuted the Nazarenes the more they would grow, he decided on the Road to Damascus, that the best way to fight

WOW!!! Can you say denial? That’s quite a tale my friend. :eek: NOT A SHRED OF PROOF…

He tried to join and failed

FAILED…BASED ON WHAT?:confused:

but he continued to fight the Nazarenes until he strangulated the Sect to death, when he overturned all the Nazarene synagogues throughout Asia Minor into Christian churches.

So, Paul continued on his rampage after his vision of the Christ? Proof please…

But how about his grudge? Yes, he kept a grudge against the Pharisees, because they never allowed him to build a single church in Israeli soil until his death.

Ben: 🙂

What grudge??? Paul was a loving forgiving man after his vision of God!!! Prior to that he was an overseer of stonings…a persecutor of people, that rejected his learned beliefs. Personally, I like the new Paul, as opposed to the old one.

God bless Ben…🙂 🙂 🙂
 
I have a question to you in answer to yours: Once a Lawyer stood up and asked Jesus the following question: “Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” But here is my question to you: If the Law does not work, as you suggest above, why would Jesus answer that Lawyer’s question by addressing him to the Law? Why would Jesus point to the Law as the answer to the wish to inherit eternal life? (Luke 10:25,26) I will appreciate your response to this one.

Hey Ben…
🙂
**Matt. 10:25-26…

On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?” “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?” He answered: " **‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’[c]; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ **“You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.” **

**Does this one command, to love, define the Jewish Law, as a whole? **** Christians believe in the 10 commandments, as well, but the law, as a whole, according to Christians, [never to impugn the present day Jewish Law; I would never do that] --as a means of salvation, has been supplanted by Christ’s work on the cross. **

**I am respectfully assuming, you are awaiting another King Messiah…I could be wrong though…:confused:

Free will is great; we, as Christians and Jews, have the right to believe what ever we want. **

God bless Ben…👍
 
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