When will the world end? Genesis 18

[14er]

Here might be a fun one to toss about. Reading Genesis 18 at about verse 20 and following might give us a clue as to when the end of the world might come about.

It’s the story of Abraham asking God to spare the city if he can find 50 righteous people there. The prayer is granted. Then after “negotiating” for 40 and 20 righteous etc., God says He will spare the city if 10 righteous people can be found.

We don’t know the population of Sodom, so we can’t calculate the ratio of righteous to un-righteous, but maybe the second coming and the end of the world will be when the ratio is the same as it was back then.

But you see now how the prayers of the faithful hold back the wrath of God. Pray always.

God destroys the city in the second half of Genesis 19. I am not commenting on the first half of Genesis 19, but feel free to do so.

 

[spauline]

Here might be a fun one to toss about. Reading Genesis 18 at about verse 20 and following might give us a clue as to when the end of the world might come about.

It’s the story of Abraham asking God to spare the city if he can find 50 righteous people there. The prayer is granted. Then after “negotiating” for 40 and 20 righteous etc., God says He will spare the city if 10 righteous people can be found.

We don’t know the population of Sodom, so we can’t calculate the ratio of righteous to un-righteous, but maybe the second coming and the end of the world will be when the ratio is the same as it was back then.

But you see now how the prayers of the faithful hold back the wrath of God. Pray always.

God destroys the city in the second half of Genesis 19. I am not commenting on the first half of Genesis 19, but feel free to do so.

nah, God has to first grant humanity a learning lesson so that they won’t be able to tell him they didn’t know better. From 300 to 1700, a religious can of worms was created. Because of this, the modern world would rather not open that can. They say, religion causes wars and killings. Plus, how the hell can we know what’s true when religion is an unbelievable can of worms. So then, why bother with religion. We can build a utopia ourselves, without any God or God’s. After all, there are 33,002 different kinds of Jesus. Will the real Jesus please stand up?

So then, because Jesus followers confound the message, we do not accept the Gospel.

So God says, “I sympathize with you and admit that my children have made a can of worms. But you still need Jesus, you still need Bishops, you still even need the pope. So I guess you have to find out the hard way. THerefore, because you have no concern for religion in any sense, you’re going to go through the consequences, in which your world will almost end. But when the consequences come, you’ll rediscover God, Jesus, the Bishops, and the Pope. and there will be peace, both spirutally and scientifically. So then, when you fall away a SECOND time, after that, you will have no excuse.”

Therefore, 14er, in the European Civs, it is already like Sodom, practically. But this is not the end yet. God can still teach the world a lesson. Only after the lesson and glorious restoration and peace will they then be both unforgivable and irredeemable when they fall away even after that glorious period.

 

[Verbum]

Hi 14,

I see no reason for a parallel here. The end of times is presented in Revelation as occurring after the final triumph of Christ over the devil. The end of the world, contrary to what happened at Sodom and Gomorrha, will not be a punishment but a celebration.

Verbum

 

[Calbreese]

Three things have to happen before the end…

1. A great apostacy, or falling away from the church.
2. The Beast must be unveiled (some say this has been done).
3. Conversion of the Jews. If this does not happen before Judgment Day, it will certainly happen on Judgment Day, when the Messiah comes back for the second coming - which the Jews will view as their first.

BUT…the world will only end for evil in a lake of fire, then God will build His eternal Spiritual Temple on earth. Pretty good script.

 

[porthos11]

As for me, I only think, “What the heck’s taking him so long anyway?”

 

[robert_ambrose]

the world will end when you die.

 

[spauline]

the world will end when you die.

that’s true, but the world will also end historically. It will end historically because the near whole of humanity will turn fully away from God irrevocably and irredeemably. The spiritual process of all salvation history is then involved with this central question. and those mysteries are what the apocalypse is ultimately about.

Admittedly, the doctrine of our individual justification takes precedence to the question of the spiritual meaning of history, but we cannot use this fact to dismiss the fact that the meaning of history also has a significance, in fact, of rather high importance when we consider the minor apostasy that reigns in the Global North.

 

[Swamp_Yankee]

Spauline, what do you mean by, “minor apostasy that reins in the Global North”? Are you refering to secularism, the spread of Islam, or something else?

 

[spauline]

Spauline, what do you mean by, “minor apostasy that reins in the Global North”? Are you refering to secularism, the spread of Islam, or something else?

I mean secular messianism, which is utterly apostate, unlike Islam, which God can use to save someone if they don’t know any better.

 

[Swamp_Yankee]

I’m sorry, but what is secular messianism?

 

[Joe_Kelley]

Note Deuteronomy 7:9

Know therefore that the LORD your God is God, the faithful God who keeps covenant and steadfast love with those who love him and keep his commandments, to a thousand generations,

and 1 Chronicals 16:15-17

He is mindful of his covenant for ever,
of the word that he commanded, for a thousand generations,
16] the covenant which he made with Abraham,
his sworn promise to Isaac,
17] which he confirmed as a statute to Jacob,
as an everlasting covenant to Israel,

These promises were made some 30 centuries ago. Allowing 4 generations per century we have only 120 generations so far and 220 centuries to go.

 

[spauline]

I’m sorry, but what is secular messianism?

Secular messianism, as cited in the CCC in section on the Second Coming, is, as they call it, “intrinsically perverse”, which cannot be said for of the gray areas, such as Islam, Orthodoxy, Heresy, or even the Infidelity of the Enlightenment.

IOW, secular messianism is UTTERLY deficient and a TOTAL affront to the Gospel, whereas the other ideologies I just mentioned are only PARTIALLY opposed to the Gospel, and to varying degrees.

The essential essence of secular messianim is the notion that a prosperous and peaceful world, even a “utopia”, can be brought about merely through materialistic and scientific developments, independent of ANY religion whatsoever. IOW, the existence of God is either denied (atheistic secular messianism, otherwise known as communism), or else, God and religion remain irrelevant to humanity’s wellbeing, under the assumption that “God” is whoever any particular man wants him to be, or not to be (relativistic materialism).

And usually consumate with this secular notion is also the reality that even the most foundational experiences of human morality can be utterly cast aside, and that humanity will still prosper despite these things, ie., Judeo-Christain understanding of life and sex is utterly cast aside through the collapse of sexual morality and the propogation of murder on both ends of the life spectrum (abortion ,euthanasia), and yet it is beleived that such departures are in fact beneficial to humanity and free them from the constraints of an “archaic” model of human life.

And again, these ideologies, which indeed govern most of the European Civs or their derivatives, are UTTERLY deficient both spiritually and morally and pose a threat to social order that is unlike any other deficiencies yet encountered by the Church. For, whereas they are partially deficient, the primary intermediate categories of religion that have arisen between pagan Rome and now have never been completey deficient. That is why the CHurch would never say that Islam, Orthodoxy, Protestantism, or even Deists and Rationalists are “intrinsicallly perverse”, since in all these, but to varying degrees, there is at least some truth, and, in most cases (that except deism and rationalism), some grace.

but again, secular messianism is utterly apostate. It is a total false prophet. As a consequence, the rather urgent question for humanity and the Church now is whether secular messianism and the other intermediate conditions can be healed. The urgency of this question is great in our modern times, and that is what i meant by telling robert ambrose that we cannot fully dismiss these questions with “the world ends when you die.” For just as a spiritual process and psychology applies to the individual human person, so also such questions apply to human history as a whole.

 

[pprimeau1976]

Calbreese:

I thought I would comment on your post:

1. A great apostacy, or falling away from the church.

I wonder if this has already happened or will happen shortly. I heard once that another great schism would occur if the Pope ever declared Mary to be the “Co-Redemptrix”. [/qutoe]

1. Conversion of the Jews. If this does not happen before Judgment Day, it will certainly happen on Judgment Day, when the Messiah comes back for the second coming - which the Jews will view as their first.

Many Hebrew Catholics think that all of Israel would need to accept Jesus before he comes again. Jesus prophesied this when he said "You will not see me here again! Not until you learn to cry “Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.” Read Roy Schoeman’s Salvation is From The Jews for more info.