When you don't fit in with the Traditionalists

  • Thread starter Thread starter Deo_Gratias42
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
D

Deo_Gratias42

Guest
I’m a newbie, poorly catechized revert who’s still trying to catch up. I attend a parish with a very active traditional community with the FSSP, but also what seems to be a pretty active more modern community.

Mass and sacramental wise it’s great and I love it, but I find myself distancing myself from the members, as I don’t really fit in. I’m not a Traditionalist. I don’t look down on the people at our parish who attend the OF, nor do I look down on the priest who offers the OF Masses. I’ve attended one of his Masses and while it’s no EF Mass, it was the most orthodox OF Mass I’ve ever attended.

I find myself getting into the most ridiculous arguments with people that I shouldn’t even be getting into. I shouldn’t have to defend the FSSP priest for spending a long time in the confessional hearing confessions, and late for whatever committee meeting they’re having. I got into an argument with another person after Mass who started comparing some priest in my home diocese who to our FSSP priest, putting down our priest because his sermon that Sunday wasn’t as up to par as the priest’s homilies are in my home diocese, which is pretty irrelevant given that we don’t go to Mass for the sermons, but the Most Holy Sacrifice, which I can tell you the priest he was comparing our priest to likes add his own “improvements” to the actual Mass.

I hear more whining from the Traditionalists complaining about how they don’t have their own church. They have it so good compared to other dioceses. They have a fully active community amongst themselves, and a good and holy priest. Personally, I like having both communities there. It allows for more diversity.

I can’t stand the holier-than-thou attitude displayed when talking about the other parish members, who are likely more ignorant than anything. Really, I can’t look down on them because I’m not much different than them except when I needed a confessor to reconcile me back into the Church, I happened to find the priest from the FSSP. One thing led to another, and the graces flowed abundantly and I found myself at the EF Mass, and my spiritual life just took off.

I’m no traditional person, though. I’m a youngish woman in a non-traditional work environment (Let’s just say I’m in the people recycling business.) that I’m hesitant to mention to people at church, as it has received some unpleasant reactions given that many of my clients are not the most upstanding citizens. I’m a revert who was very poorly catechized, so I know very little (though, I’m not as bad off as I had thought), and I’m the only practicing faithful Catholic in my family.

I’m nothing special, and I feel like a fraud here. Anyone else experience this when they first started attending a traditional parish community? I found myself in the same predicament with the much smaller Latin Mass Society in my home diocese, and I found myself just avoiding it, save for major feasts. Honestly, if I wasn’t being spiritually fed at this parish, I would just jump ship into the OF community. 😦
 
In those matters where there is gossip and uncharity, just don’t take part.
You are not obliged to be drawn in by others’ criticisms or gossip.

Delight the Lord by being a gentle person of goodness and love who doesn’t lose sight of the intrinsic value of what the Mass truly is before God,
and of the command to love God above all,
and to love others as yourself.

May God give you the graces needed to walk that holy path,
not allowing the stones to make you stumble nor the thorns to tear your clothes and scratch you.
Please keep your eyes on Him.
 
Deo_Gratias42 said:
I’m a newbie, poorly catechized revert who’s still trying to catch up. I attend a parish with a very active traditional community with the FSSP, but also what seems to be a pretty active more modern community.

Mass and sacramental wise it’s great and I love it, but I find myself distancing myself from the members, as I don’t really fit in. I’m not a Traditionalist. I don’t look down on the people at our parish who attend the OF, nor do I look down on the priest who offers the OF Masses. I’ve attended one of his Masses and while it’s no EF Mass, it was the most orthodox OF Mass I’ve ever attended.

I find myself getting into the most ridiculous arguments with people that I shouldn’t even be getting into. I shouldn’t have to defend the FSSP priest for spending a long time in the confessional hearing confessions, and late for whatever committee meeting they’re having. I got into an argument with another person after Mass who started comparing some priest in my home diocese who to our FSSP priest, putting down our priest because his sermon that Sunday wasn’t as up to par as the priest’s homilies are in my home diocese, which is pretty irrelevant given that we don’t go to Mass for the sermons, but the Most Holy Sacrifice, which I can tell you the priest he was comparing our priest to likes add his own “improvements” to the actual Mass.

I hear more whining from the Traditionalists complaining about how they don’t have their own church. They have it so good compared to other dioceses. They have a fully active community amongst themselves, and a good and holy priest. Personally, I like having both communities there. It allows for more diversity.

I can’t stand the holier-than-thou attitude displayed when talking about the other parish members, who are likely more ignorant than anything. Really, I can’t look down on them because I’m not much different than them except when I needed a confessor to reconcile me back into the Church, I happened to find the priest from the FSSP. One thing led to another, and the graces flowed abundantly and I found myself at the EF Mass, and my spiritual life just took off.

I’m no traditional person, though. I’m a youngish woman in a non-traditional work environment (Let’s just say I’m in the people recycling business.) that I’m hesitant to mention to people at church, as it has received some unpleasant reactions given that many of my clients are not the most upstanding citizens. I’m a revert who was very poorly catechized, so I know very little (though, I’m not as bad off as I had thought), and I’m the only practicing faithful Catholic in my family.

I’m nothing special, and I feel like a fraud here. Anyone else experience this when they first started attending a traditional parish community? I found myself in the same predicament with the much smaller Latin Mass Society in my home diocese, and I found myself just avoiding it, save for major feasts. Honestly, if I wasn’t being spiritually fed at this parish, I would just jump ship into the OF community. 😦
Click to expand...
bs thread don t pay attention to anything they say here
 
That sometimes happen to people who are exposed to something beautiful that nourishes them. Please don’t judge these people. You might start agreeing with them sooner than you think, precisely because you are nourished spiritually there as well. That is likely to change your perspective on things. Speaking from experience here.
 
Deo_Gratias42 said:
I’m a newbie, poorly catechized revert who’s still trying to catch up. I attend a parish with a very active traditional community with the FSSP, but also what seems to be a pretty active more modern community.

Mass and sacramental wise it’s great and I love it, but I find myself distancing myself from the members, as I don’t really fit in. I’m not a Traditionalist. I don’t look down on the people at our parish who attend the OF, nor do I look down on the priest who offers the OF Masses. I’ve attended one of his Masses and while it’s no EF Mass, it was the most orthodox OF Mass I’ve ever attended.

I find myself getting into the most ridiculous arguments with people that I shouldn’t even be getting into. I shouldn’t have to defend the FSSP priest for spending a long time in the confessional hearing confessions, and late for whatever committee meeting they’re having. I got into an argument with another person after Mass who started comparing some priest in my home diocese who to our FSSP priest, putting down our priest because his sermon that Sunday wasn’t as up to par as the priest’s homilies are in my home diocese, which is pretty irrelevant given that we don’t go to Mass for the sermons, but the Most Holy Sacrifice, which I can tell you the priest he was comparing our priest to likes add his own “improvements” to the actual Mass.

I hear more whining from the Traditionalists complaining about how they don’t have their own church. They have it so good compared to other dioceses. They have a fully active community amongst themselves, and a good and holy priest. Personally, I like having both communities there. It allows for more diversity.

I can’t stand the holier-than-thou attitude displayed when talking about the other parish members, who are likely more ignorant than anything. Really, I can’t look down on them because I’m not much different than them except when I needed a confessor to reconcile me back into the Church, I happened to find the priest from the FSSP. One thing led to another, and the graces flowed abundantly and I found myself at the EF Mass, and my spiritual life just took off.

I’m no traditional person, though. I’m a youngish woman in a non-traditional work environment (Let’s just say I’m in the people recycling business.) that I’m hesitant to mention to people at church, as it has received some unpleasant reactions given that many of my clients are not the most upstanding citizens. I’m a revert who was very poorly catechized, so I know very little (though, I’m not as bad off as I had thought), and I’m the only practicing faithful Catholic in my family.

I’m nothing special, and I feel like a fraud here. Anyone else experience this when they first started attending a traditional parish community? I found myself in the same predicament with the much smaller Latin Mass Society in my home diocese, and I found myself just avoiding it, save for major feasts. Honestly, if I wasn’t being spiritually fed at this parish, I would just jump ship into the OF community. 😦
Click to expand...
Tell you the biggest pain in the ceck are your fellow Christians.
Be patient witht them for they have grown with their traditions up.
They must be patient with you too, a recently convert whom they try to adapt to their ctraditions !!!
 
That was way too many acronyms and information I am totally foreign to, so the specific nature of your issue is still Latin to me 🙂 however, the basic premise of Jesus and the Apostolic church he birthed is to be peacemakers whenever possible and to love each other without evil or insult paid for the same but rather blessings and longsuffering toward them that are of the same body. I can tell you that this is turning the other cheek times ten because the derision is invading your worship and fellowship place in which you seek to assemble with like minded believers. I like to start out with pouring gifts and kind gestures on the person for its like heaping hot coals on their head and I begin praying in obedience because Jesus said to pray for those I begin telling Him…Okay, you said to do it and I am doing what you said, but I believe my spirit is all wrong and still carnal so since obedience is better than sacrifice I am starting at this point and I ask you to lead me in spirit into a true place where I can bless and pray for this person…before you know it I am praying over marriage, finances, grandbabies, a gambling problem!!! I had no idea why I brought any of those items up and didn’t know if the person was afflicted by all that…but by the time I finish praying I am in tears and really burdened for them and come with sincere compassion and a true loving heart to try harder to become friendly to them. It works you just got to work at it 🙂 By the way…we all tend to be prideful when we are not settled in our beliefs or able to allow others to get settled into theirs and when I have a personal thing that was spiritually discerned based on my own individual weaknesses to abstain from…that is between me and God because He knows my heart and wants me to dedicate myself to abstaining from a stumbling block, but if I were to judge at all or frustrate others by forcing that truth and living commandment onto them (when they probably don’t even have the same flaw) well them I would be dirision and not like minded in unity with the rest of the members in my own body! If someone snaps at you think of it like your right ankle being sprained…you would begin to bear weight on your left leg and support the body moreso on that leg until the right leg healed because once you felt the pain of putting normal weight down on it you realized your left leg has to compensate for a while or else you will be unable to walk. The left leg can get sore from the extra load but you push through until the right leg is better for the sake of being able to move as a body…if you step on that right leg and notice that it hurts to weight it down and then begin to kick at it with your left leg or refruse to compensate for the injury…your either going to cripple yourself or walk on until the sprain turns into a break!!! hope that makes sense it is my body of christ messages I use to keep peace and love and God inside the building believers and me 🙂
 
Deo_Gratias42 said:
I’m a newbie, poorly catechized revert who’s still trying to catch up. I attend a parish with a very active traditional community with the FSSP, but also what seems to be a pretty active more modern community.

Mass and sacramental wise it’s great and I love it, but I find myself distancing myself from the members, as I don’t really fit in. I’m not a Traditionalist. I don’t look down on the people at our parish who attend the OF, nor do I look down on the priest who offers the OF Masses. I’ve attended one of his Masses and while it’s no EF Mass, it was the most orthodox OF Mass I’ve ever attended.

I find myself getting into the most ridiculous arguments with people that I shouldn’t even be getting into. I shouldn’t have to defend the FSSP priest for spending a long time in the confessional hearing confessions, and late for whatever committee meeting they’re having. I got into an argument with another person after Mass who started comparing some priest in my home diocese who to our FSSP priest, putting down our priest because his sermon that Sunday wasn’t as up to par as the priest’s homilies are in my home diocese, which is pretty irrelevant given that we don’t go to Mass for the sermons, but the Most Holy Sacrifice, which I can tell you the priest he was comparing our priest to likes add his own “improvements” to the actual Mass.

I hear more whining from the Traditionalists complaining about how they don’t have their own church. They have it so good compared to other dioceses. They have a fully active community amongst themselves, and a good and holy priest. Personally, I like having both communities there. It allows for more diversity.

I can’t stand the holier-than-thou attitude displayed when talking about the other parish members, who are likely more ignorant than anything. Really, I can’t look down on them because I’m not much different than them except when I needed a confessor to reconcile me back into the Church, I happened to find the priest from the FSSP. One thing led to another, and the graces flowed abundantly and I found myself at the EF Mass, and my spiritual life just took off.

I’m no traditional person, though. I’m a youngish woman in a non-traditional work environment (Let’s just say I’m in the people recycling business.) that I’m hesitant to mention to people at church, as it has received some unpleasant reactions given that many of my clients are not the most upstanding citizens. I’m a revert who was very poorly catechized, so I know very little (though, I’m not as bad off as I had thought), and I’m the only practicing faithful Catholic in my family.

I’m nothing special, and I feel like a fraud here. Anyone else experience this when they first started attending a traditional parish community? I found myself in the same predicament with the much smaller Latin Mass Society in my home diocese, and I found myself just avoiding it, save for major feasts. Honestly, if I wasn’t being spiritually fed at this parish, I would just jump ship into the OF community. 😦
Click to expand...
I can understand your frustration. Hopefully it’s not the majority of the parish members who display a holier-than-thou attitude. I think that part of the problem with attitudes (and I could be wrong here) is that in some Latin Mass communites, before they had an FSSP priest, they were marginalized in that they were not given much access to the Latin Mass and traditional sacraments. A sort of “trench mentality” can set in in such a situation. Not saying that this is the case with your parish, exactly. At the FSSP parish where I am, the priest is excellent, but the parishioners aren’t very friendly to new people, which doesn’t work out very well for shy people like myself.

I’m glad that you defended the FSSP priest who spent a long time in the confessional. The FSSP priest in our diocese also spends a long time hearing confessions, which isn’t a bad thing, of course.

I think that as more options are offered for the EF in every diocese, this sort of thing will diminish, hopefully. It’s okay, IMO, for you to attend the EF, but not consider yourself a traditionalist. 🙂
 
Deo_Gratias42 said:
I can’t stand the holier-than-thou attitude displayed when talking about the other parish members, who are likely more ignorant than anything. Really, I can’t look down on them because I’m not much different than them except when I needed a confessor to reconcile me back into the Church, I happened to find the priest from the FSSP. One thing led to another, and the graces flowed abundantly and I found myself at the EF Mass, and my spiritual life just took off.
Click to expand...
Welcome to the number one reason I do not and will not attend the EF mass in my area. The liturgy itself is wonderful, the people involved are most certainly not, and if they were the people I had been exposed to when I was considering Catholicism, I most certainly would not be catholic today. This is why I constantly urge all EF advocates to have charity in the way they address others, because the locals here have most certainly turned me off to their parish.
 
Gossiping and being uncharitable, wherever it happens, is not being Christlike and should be corrected.
If I may just say one thing. Having assisted at many different venues of the TlM over the years, I have seen a bit of what you speak. We all know it should not be done.
I would like to bring up the point that some of these folk had seen the TLM pulled from them w/o mercy when the New Mass came out. They did not get much sympathy from most of the clergy. Also, I suspect that some of the younger peoples assisting there were drawn due to the reverence and unabashedly Catholic prayers that they hear there, having not experienced such Catholicity at their local parish.
Pride should not run anyone’s disposition, true enough.
Pray that you keep on the path to loving the truth no matter whatever be the distractions.

Joe
 
You have all sorts of people who attend EF parishes. Some are rad-trad and some are more mod-trad, as I hope I am. Yeah, I know. Labels, labels.

My experience at an FSSP parish I sometimes attend is awesome. The people are extremely friendly, and non-judgmental. They understand that we are all sinners, so they teach and correct, but in a loving manner.

So sometimes it depends on the culture of the parish itself.

I will say that a lot who attend the EF tend to be more inward-focused because the mass is more vertical, as opposed to horizontal. Sometimes this translates, outside of mass, to being unfriendly, or not being attuned to the social or spiritual needs of others.

I also agree to what Denise said about the “trench mentality”. If you are on the defensive because you had to fight for what you have, that can create a mentality of them against us and also an ardent desire to keep one’s belief’s “pure” without outside influence.
 
Deo Gratias,

being traditional does not at all mean looking down on those who attend the OF… this is being uncharitable. 🙂 a person can like traditional things simply for the sake of Jesus, but understand that they are for all Catholics, and not separate themselves from other Catholics, feel superior, or look down upon anyone… we are not a “special type of Catholic”, we are Catholic like all the rest, and we hope for everyone to discover and love the Church’s traditions, and make them more of a part of their lives, including the OF. For this reason, many of us support the new translation of the Mass.

Try not to get into arguments with anyone… my (FSSP) priest even told me, - don’t be critical, just pray… and Fr Ripperger, who is also FSSP, did a talk where he said that one of the common problems a “TLM” Catholic can fall into, is being discouraged by the problems in the Church, or angry, or critical.

If you are drawn to tradition, simply let this be for Jesus, don’t look differently upon others, don’t be critical, just pray, don’t argue with anyone else, etc… 🙂 I don’t think that “traditional” Catholics should separate themselves from others, as if we are a different type. The Church’s traditions are for all. We can love the TLM but be charitable towards others. Please don’t be discouraged by those around you who make these comments, pray for them, and remember you don’t have to be like them… in fact, if you meet anyone who is constantly critical and looks down upon others who attend the OF, - that is a temptation they are facing, that is not what it’s like to be a Catholic who attends the TLM. The FSSP priests i’ve met are a good example: they love the TLM, but they never argue, they are never critical, but charitable.

Also please don’t get into any conversations where people criticize priests, because we really should not do this, - just pray for them with charity and humility. And I’m sure your FSSP priest is great 🙂

I would encourage you to stay at the parish for the graces you can receive at Mass, but just focus on Jesus, and don’t get into these types of discussions because they will only discourage. Trust me this is not what the “traditional” community is about, or should be about… being “traditional” should always include charity and not looking down on other Catholics or making walls between “us and them”. I admit I’ve fallen into this mistake in the past. Just like how Catholics can sometimes fall into the mistake of judging non Catholics.

God bless you 🙂
 
Monica4316 said:
Deo Gratias,

being traditional does not at all mean looking down on those who attend the OF… this is being uncharitable. 🙂 a person can like traditional things simply for the sake of Jesus, but understand that they are for all Catholics, and not separate themselves from other Catholics, feel superior, or look down upon anyone… we are not a “special type of Catholic”, we are Catholic like all the rest, and we hope for everyone to discover and love the Church’s traditions, and make them more of a part of their lives, including the OF. For this reason, many of us support the new translation of the Mass.

Try not to get into arguments with anyone… my (FSSP) priest even told me, - don’t be critical, just pray… and Fr Ripperger, who is also FSSP, did a talk where he said that one of the common problems a “TLM” Catholic can fall into, is being discouraged by the problems in the Church, or angry, or critical.

If you are drawn to tradition, simply let this be for Jesus, don’t look differently upon others, don’t be critical, just pray, don’t argue with anyone else, etc… 🙂 I don’t think that “traditional” Catholics should separate themselves from others, as if we are a different type. The Church’s traditions are for all. We can love the TLM but be charitable towards others. Please don’t be discouraged by those around you who make these comments, pray for them, and remember you don’t have to be like them… in fact, if you meet anyone who is constantly critical and looks down upon others who attend the OF, - that is a temptation they are facing, that is not what it’s like to be a Catholic who attends the TLM. The FSSP priests i’ve met are a good example: they love the TLM, but they never argue, they are never critical, but charitable.

Also please don’t get into any conversations where people criticize priests, because we really should not do this, - just pray for them with charity and humility. And I’m sure your FSSP priest is great 🙂

I would encourage you to stay at the parish for the graces you can receive at Mass, but just focus on Jesus, and don’t get into these types of discussions because they will only discourage. Trust me this is not what the “traditional” community is about, or should be about… being “traditional” should always include charity and not looking down on other Catholics or making walls between “us and them”. I admit I’ve fallen into this mistake in the past. Just like how Catholics can sometimes fall into the mistake of judging non Catholics.

God bless you 🙂
Click to expand...
Nice post. 👍
 
I don’t think you need to call yourself anything but a Catholic. Go to the Mass you like and don’t worry about what others think or say. This division among Catholics is not good, and is most certainly against the will of God. Do your best to stay out of conflicts and act with charity toward all and avoid the labels.
 
The EF community I am part of is a very interesting group.

The first thing we noticed was there is a missing age demographic.

You have people who are old enough to have been married and had children when the Mass of Paul VI started.

You have people who are young enough that they never knew the Old Mass, until coming to it later in life.

You have the children of the previous group.

What is missing, not entirely, but mostly is anyone from the age range who were kids before the New Mass, lived through the change, and spent most of their life at the New Mass.

I have my own private theories about the reasons, but whatever they are the reality, is that at least at this Church, that age range is almost entirely absent from the EF community.

So if you happen to be in that age range, it could certainly present some socialization difficulties.

The community is interesting in a number of other ways. It draws from a large geographic area, and the people who are there choose to be there. Nobody that I’m aware of goes to the EF there simply because it happens to be nearby.

What at first glance appears as a pretty monolithic block of people, upon getting to know them is revealed to be incredibly diverse in reality. Different backgrounds, different paths to the Faith, different gifts and talents, different personalities.

I guess my point is- can people be rude? Yes they can. I know I can. However, don’t be hasty to judge someone for being judgemental 🙂 Be loving in everything. At least for men, social intimacy comes largly from DOING things together. So if you want to build a relationship, find something to do together. The Mass is a great start, and the most important thing to do together as a people of God. There are other things to. Find someone who you think might at least be somewhat social and invite them to lunch after Mass. Or find out if people at the community regularly go pray outside an abortion mill. If they do, go join them. (If not, you can be the one who starts it).

Anyways, a bit of a stream of consciousness ramble I know. I just want to say “hang in there”. My wife and I had a hard time getting to know people at our Latin Mass Community. After being there a year, our thoughts were very similar to the ones expressed by the OP. However, since that time, we have been so blessed to see how mistaken that first impression was.

Pax Christi
 
You’re right, Dan. I’m 29 and have been going to the EF for a few years. I usually see people a little younger than myself and others old enough to be my grandmother. My mother is 46 and has never been to an EF and all the people her age are the minority of the EF; strange!
 
Morgan_Hiver said:
You’re right, Dan. I’m 29 and have been going to the EF for a few years. I usually see people a little younger than myself and others old enough to be my grandmother. My mother is 46 and has never been to an EF and all the people her age are the minority of the EF; strange!
Click to expand...
Same with the EF masses I’ve been to. The congregation is generally very old and very young.
 
My FSSP parish is very similar in terms of age groups. Not many people ages 50s or so.
I think about half of the regulars are converts from protestant and anglican churches. People come from all sorts of backgrounds, spiritually and socially. It is a very interesting mix. At the moment my husband and I are the only couple with young children, which is quite unusual for the traditional community.

As for ‘mad-trad’ attitudes (as a friend of mine calls it), there is a mix too. I’ve never encountered anger and bitterness, although I know some people never attend OF. There are others, on the other hand, who attend daily OF mass and don’t make an issue out of it. But it is always clear that we are there by choice and that the EF is more than just a preference. I can understand why someone would be annoyed by that and see it as an elitist attitude. I thought that as well when I first started attending, but my attitude changed that first time when I decided not to take Communion at OF mass because what was happening did not leave me well disposed to do that.
 
YoungTradCath said:
Same with the EF masses I’ve been to. The congregation is generally very old and very young.
Click to expand...
Interesting observation. I do see that Dan, Morgan and YoungtTradCath.

Technically, I was born after the close of Vatican II. However, I see the same thing, which is one reason why I love the FSSP parish I attend sometimes. There are mothers of teens like me there!
 
I may be over-simplifying however, let me give my point of view. I was an altar server in the late 50"s. Then all Vatican II broke loose! My Catechesis (?) was minimal as with most Catholics at that time. Since I returned to a Traditional parish, I came with the same lack of knowledge. Low and behold,(LOL), I stumbled over the beginning pages of my missal. It was very eye-opening for me to read what those old traditionalist had to say about the mass. I would advise everyone with a missal to take the time to read those pages first. I liken the strong attachment I have to my entire family to the attachment I have with all those who, now and have gone before, participated in this sacred liturgy!
Learning what “actual” participation means is an eye, heart and mind opening experience! Let the Holy Spirit take you where He wants you to be!! :heaven:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top