When you run out of money

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Hi Folks,

I’m wondering if any of you parents have come to a point where you have reached the end of your financial means, but you had necessities that you needed to purchase. I understand that there is a lot that you can give up. For example, you could sell your house and downsize to something smaller. You could just not put the kids in programs and let them mill around the house all summer. You could by that 12 pass van with 200000plus KM on it for 6000 instead of that same van with 70000KM at 25 0000.

But is there a point where begging others for help is the better way to go? And how to do this in a way that does not dishonor God, myself, and my children?

I have prided myself on being financially independent of others for the last 12 years of my marriage. I have supported my family as best I can. But maybe that pride is misplaced right now? Maybe I should give it up, humble myself, and seek help from others with hat in hand?

I know I have already been given much. Although I have never asked others, people have almost forced me to take things from them. For example, my rich brother has essentially clothed all my boys with hand me downs (many of them worn only once or twice) from his own kids. Other people have offered us things they don’t need, and we have always accepted what we need from those offers gratefully.

I’d appreciate any advice people can offer. Especially from folks with large families, although advice from others will also be appreciated.

God bless,
Ut
 
There are really only two ways to alter the financial picture long term-- reduce spending or increase income. Or both together.

I suggest you look at both parts of the equation. I don’t know your situation, but if only one person is working look at how both could work for a while or one could take a second job, even if in some in-home capacity like tutoring, child care, etc.

I do not think it is wrong to receive government assistance that you qualify for. So, do look at that also. I don’t know what is available in Canada, but in the U.S. food assistance via free and reduced lunches, supplemental food money (SNAP and WIC), low income housing assistance, utility assistance, and more are available for those who need it.

If you are in a real bind, for example can’t pay the mortgage or utilities or buy food, then I would indeed reach out to family or friends who I knew could help. But I would have to make sure that was a one-time thing because it strains family relationships to borrow money one cannot repay. If I had to borrow money I would draw up an agreement for repayment so there would be no misunderstanding or hard feelings between family members.

Having seen family members receive assistance from others in the family, I think the dynamic is much different when the assistance is unsolicited. You may not be prepared for what difference it makes when you ask versus when someone gives on their own.
 
Six years ago I was dead broke. I had nothing but a 10 year old vehicle and a few hundred dollars in cash. Then I got a job. Before my I got my first paycheck, the few dollars I had left ran out. Then my car ran out of gas about five blocks from home. I didn’t have a dime to my name and no way to put gas in the car. I had no other choice but to call my father and ask him to loan me a few bucks till I got paid. My life’s improved since then.
 
No, there is no point where you admit defeat and start begging for assistance for others. Like another poster suggested, you either need to reduce outgo or increase your income. I for one love the Dave Ramsey program. We used to live like we had no money or rather we spent way too much on things that didn’t matter and it seemed we didn’t have any left at the end of the month. In reality it came down to the fact that we weren’t managing our money. If you aren’t already, sit down with your spouse and write a detailed budget and stick to it. Consider the budget an agreement. We now feel like a team and are have the same goals in mind. Money will control you if you don’t control it.
 
If you have family that you feel could help out then I see no shame in asking. I would take a good hard look at my habits before getting to that point, but it sounds like you have.

I borrowed significantly from my parents when I was in my late 20’s and signed a loan agreement to pay it back with interest. I did so successfully, so I have no guilt about having done so.

If you are talking just enough to see you through a tough patch then you may not need to have a pay back agreement. Offer to do so to whomever you ask for help from and let them decide how they would like to handle the situation, as a gift, or a loan.

Good luck and I’m sorry you are struggling
 
I am not sure of your exact situation but I think there is a large gap between being completely self-supporting to begging. There has to be something in between.

Can someone make you a loan to get past this moment? That isn’t begging, as you would be paying it back.

Can you bring in more income or drastically cut spending? That’s really the only way out of some situations. Sometimes it takes making drastic lifestyle changes to get out of a problem like this. Sometimes we have to make hard changes such as asking our spouse to work to help us or cutting out fun but unnecessary extras for our children. It’s not for forever but in time to get past the problem.

Also can you apply for any aid such as food stamps or utility assistance? Can you go to a food bank for food to free up some money to pay for bills? Are there unnecessary expenses like cable, wifi, cell phone with expensive data, etc? It taes drastic changes to make a big difference. It will be hard but you can do it.

Prayers going up.
 
I think it really depends on the situation. For instance, if I had a house larger than I needed and knew that my income was not likely to improve, I’d sell. If I needed some money to get by for a few months while I found a job, I might consider asking for a loan but only if I had exhausted literally every other option. Including things like home equity loans, etc. I think it gets very dicey when family members get involved in borrowing and loaning money, or taking money as a gift.

Personally, I wouldn’t consider summer programs for kids a necessity. There are plenty of things to do during the summer that don’t cost anything- bike riding, library, volunteering, yard work, parks and playgrounds, etc. I can’t remember a time when we ever participated in organized, costly activities during the summer except for maybe a week at camp. We weren’t milling around the house with nothing to do.

I don’t think it’s wrong to ask other people for help, but I think it’s responsible to make sure you’ve exhausted all options first, taken a good look at what is really a necessity, and accept any unpleasant consequences that arise from borrowing or taking money from family or friends.
 
1ke said:
There are really only two ways to alter the financial picture long term-- reduce spending or increase income. Or both together.

I suggest you look at both parts of the equation. I don’t know your situation, but if only one person is working look at how both could work for a while or one could take a second job, even if in some in-home capacity like tutoring, child care, etc.

I do not think it is wrong to receive government assistance that you qualify for. So, do look at that also. I don’t know what is available in Canada, but in the U.S. food assistance via free and reduced lunches, supplemental food money (SNAP and WIC), low income housing assistance, utility assistance, and more are available for those who need it.

If you are in a real bind, for example can’t pay the mortgage or utilities or buy food, then I would indeed reach out to family or friends who I knew could help. **But I would have to make sure that was a one-time thing because it strains family relationships to borrow money one cannot repay. ** If I had to borrow money I would draw up an agreement for repayment so there would be no misunderstanding or hard feelings between family members.

Having seen family members receive assistance from others in the family, I think the dynamic is much different when the assistance is unsolicited. You may not be prepared for what difference it makes when you ask versus when someone gives on their own.
Click to expand...
And don’t call it a “loan” if there’s no foreseeable way to pay it back. If you just have enough to get by, you can’t afford additional payments on a loan.
 
utunumsint said:
Hi Folks,

I’m wondering if any of you parents have come to a point where you have reached the end of your financial means, but you had necessities that you needed to purchase. I understand that there is a lot that you can give up. For example, you could sell your house and downsize to something smaller. You could just not put the kids in programs and let them mill around the house all summer. You could by that 12 pass van with 200000plus KM on it for 6000 instead of that same van with 70000KM at 25 0000.

But is there a point where begging others for help is the better way to go? And how to do this in a way that does not dishonor God, myself, and my children?

I have prided myself on being financially independent of others for the last 12 years of my marriage. I have supported my family as best I can. But maybe that pride is misplaced right now? Maybe I should give it up, humble myself, and seek help from others with hat in hand?

I know I have already been given much. Although I have never asked others, people have almost forced me to take things from them. For example, my rich brother has essentially clothed all my boys with hand me downs (many of them worn only once or twice) from his own kids. Other people have offered us things they don’t need, and we have always accepted what we need from those offers gratefully.

I’d appreciate any advice people can offer. Especially from folks with large families, although advice from others will also be appreciated.

God bless,
Ut
Click to expand...
As people have said, it’s hard to say without knowing your exact circumstances.

Do you have a monthly budget (a new one every month) and have you eye-balled it with your spouse? And are there no other ways of bringing in income? Also, what are your income and expense prospects for the next five years? Do you expect income to go up eventually or for expenses to go down, or is this a long-term problem? If you’ve done all that already and not come up with anything, perhaps it’s time to go to a financial counselor (I believe St. Vincent de Paul does this) and/or a coordinator for Dave Ramsey’s Financial Peace University.

Also (and this is very important), are you and your spouse on the same page? Do you both understand the situation? Is there something one is willing to cut but the other isn’t?

One thing my husband and I do now is that our budget is split into two sections: basic and “extras.” The “basic” section contains mortage and property taxes, grocery, utilities, car maintenance, home maintenance–basically all of the stuff that is a basic life function. The “extras” section (which is only about 25% of the size of the basic section) contains stuff like: school hot lunch, Christmas savings, Netflix, zoo membership, children’s museum membership, electronics replacement savings, etc. It might clarify things if you recategorized your expenses like that. One of the things that we found very interesting was how LARGE the basics are compared to the “extras.”

And here’s a good rule of thumb–you are not going to thrive if your housing costs approach 50% of household income. Ideally, housing costs should be no more than 25% of income (I’m not sure whether that should be gross or take-home, but I lean toward take-home). The higher above 25% your housing costs are, the more life is going to hurt. The lower you can keep your housing costs, the comfier it’s going to be.

Another rule of thumb is that the value of all of your possessions with motors should be no more than 50% of your yearly income. For example, if you make $40k a year, you should not have $20k in cars.

Best wishes!
 
It sounds a bit as if this has been a long term struggle, since you say " I have supported my family as best I can."
I don’t know your situation so it’s hard to say, but I’ve noticed that a little education/training goes a long way to increase one’s earning power. Depending on what you’re good at, is there a program or training that you could get into to boost your earnings? Maybe you could take evening courses for awhile for an upgrade.

Maybe study computers for repair, auto mechanics, nursing? As a CNA (nursing assistant) I made $11/hour, after another year of education I made $17 as an LPN, another year and I made $25, and last year some of my coworkers were making $50/hour.

Maybe something to consider for the long term.
And of course making a budget is useful.

.

.
 
Viki63 said:
It sounds a bit as if this has been a long term struggle, since you say " I have supported my family as best I can."
I don’t know your situation so it’s hard to say, but I’ve noticed that a little education/training goes a long way to increase one’s earning power. Depending on what you’re good at, is there a program or training that you could get into to boost your earnings? Maybe you could take evening courses for awhile for an upgrade.

Maybe study computers for repair, auto mechanics, nursing? As a CNA (nursing assistant) I made $11/hour, after another year of education I made $17 as an LPN, another year and I made $25, and last year some of my coworkers were making $50/hour.

Maybe something to consider for the long term.
And of course making a budget is useful.

.
Click to expand...
Yes!

Also, is it time for older children to start earning pocket money?
 
Mamanurse said:
No, there is no point where you admit defeat and start begging for assistance for others. Like another poster suggested, you either need to reduce outgo or increase your income. I for one love the Dave Ramsey program. We used to live like we had no money or rather we spent way too much on things that didn’t matter and it seemed we didn’t have any left at the end of the month. In reality it came down to the fact that we weren’t managing our money. If you aren’t already, sit down with your spouse and write a detailed budget and stick to it. Consider the budget an agreement. We now feel like a team and are have the same goals in mind. Money will control you if you don’t control it.
Click to expand...
DAVE RAMSEY!

Has great advice and guidance on money management.

Check on YouTube and at your local public library.
 
But is there a point where begging others for help is the better way to go? And how to do this in a way that does not dishonor God, myself, and my children?
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It is not an either/or thing. There is no shame in taking clothes or other gifts for one’s children. There is no shame in accepting government benefits that you are entitled to.
 
I am not asking for details, this is for you to think about.

Are you living beyond your means in any areas? Some of what people think is necessity is not. Maybe for a while, no cable, no vacations except day trips. No buying lunches at school or work, brown bag it. Maybe not the 200k mile car, but not the 70k mile one either. Been married 12 years… How many kids? Can you do a smaller van? Or 2 smaller low priced cars? Public school if not in there already. Summer programs, nope. Let kids be kids like they used to be. Nurture a child’s interests, but band camp or dance camp is not a necessity for young children.

Yes, maybe downsize the house and put multiple kids in a room.

There is nothing wrong with accepting help, or receiving help from govt if it’s there.

But giving up? Not an option. As many suggested, check out Dave Ramsay.
 
I remembered that in the countries of the former Soviet Union there were times when after collapse of communism whole multimillion people found themselves in complete bankruptcy.
That is, for example, many elderly people woke up the next day after learning that their life-saving means suddenly disappeared.
In the Soviet times of ‘‘equal poverty’’, sincere believers had large families, and there were cases when there was not a piece of bread, but God did not leave the believers.
Of course, a very great role was played by solidarity between believers.аnd the help of brothers and sisters from Western countries. But those cases when a person is without means very many. In the past centuries in history it was a common occurrence.
Some people are ashamed to ask(me too:D although I’m not in need)
But life is arranged that many respectable and influential people ask for help, including presidents and rich people who ask for money from over-rich people.(some need support for missions, noble projects) Therefore I think there is nothing criminal to ask for help from your neighbor in a difficult moment.
 
utunumsint said:
Hi Folks,

I’m wondering if any of you parents have come to a point where you have reached the end of your financial means, but you had necessities that you needed to purchase. I understand that there is a lot that you can give up. For example, you could sell your house and downsize to something smaller. You could just not put the kids in programs and let them mill around the house all summer. You could by that 12 pass van with 200000plus KM on it for 6000 instead of that same van with 70000KM at 25 0000.

But is there a point where begging others for help is the better way to go? And how to do this in a way that does not dishonor God, myself, and my children?

I have prided myself on being financially independent of others for the last 12 years of my marriage. I have supported my family as best I can. But maybe that pride is misplaced right now? Maybe I should give it up, humble myself, and seek help from others with hat in hand?

I know I have already been given much. Although I have never asked others, people have almost forced me to take things from them. For example, my rich brother has essentially clothed all my boys with hand me downs (many of them worn only once or twice) from his own kids. Other people have offered us things they don’t need, and we have always accepted what we need from those offers gratefully.

I’d appreciate any advice people can offer. Especially from folks with large families, although advice from others will also be appreciated.

God bless,
Ut
Click to expand...
You have had some good advice on here in the Dave Ramsey way of thinking. I would like to address my reply to all of the other posters.
It shouldn’t have to come down to begging. We should all be mindful of families who may be struggling. And we may not know it. A donation of a car, offering to pay someone’s utilities for a month. Buying the dinner of a family at dinner. Picking up the bill for the large family in front of you at the checkstand.
There are times when I could have done that. But there are times when if someone had done that for me it would have been a huge help.
And you wouldn’t know it to look at us. My wife makes a decent salary. But honestly, it would make a difference if someone helped without being asked.
It’s how we support each other!
 
Hoosier_Daddy said:
You have had some good advice on here in the Dave Ramsey way of thinking. I would like to address my reply to all of the other posters.
It shouldn’t have to come down to begging. We should all be mindful of families who may be struggling. And we may not know it. A donation of a car, offering to pay someone’s utilities for a month. Buying the dinner of a family at dinner. Picking up the bill for the large family in front of you at the checkstand.
There are times when I could have done that. But there are times when if someone had done that for me it would have been a huge help.
And you wouldn’t know it to look at us. My wife makes a decent salary. But honestly, it would make a difference if someone helped without being asked.
It’s how we support each other!
Click to expand...
As someone who has been in the OPs position, I want to thank you for your post. May God bless you and your family.

Dave Ramsey may be a good option for many people but he can’t help those of us with very low incomes. When every dollar already is assigned to a necessity all anyone can do is find a way to increase income.

I want to reassure you, your family will pull through this and it will be better because of your struggles not despite them. I’ve worked to pay off bills that my husband’s income can’t cover and then return to staying home when times improve. Even a minimum wage job is able to increase enough to go from starving to eating. We don’t pay for tv. We only have one computer, our cars are paid off. We have 3 bedrooms for 9 kids and 2 parents. We worried our kids would resent us but instead we have learned that there is peace and joy to be found in learning to work together during hardships. Now we can’t imagine living differently.

It is fine to ask for help but please try not to let it become a habit. One day the help may dry up for one reason or another. You aren’t alone. God is good and He will give you what you need as long as you are willing to trust in Him and let go of the fear.
 
Thank you all for your posts. I appreciate your thoughts. There is a lot for me to think about here.

God bless,
Ut
 
utunumsint said:
Hi Folks,

I’m wondering if any of you parents have come to a point where you have reached the end of your financial means, but you had necessities that you needed to purchase. I understand that there is a lot that you can give up. For example, you could sell your house and downsize to something smaller. You could just not put the kids in programs and let them mill around the house all summer. You could by that 12 pass van with 200000plus KM on it for 6000 instead of that same van with 70000KM at 25 0000.

But is there a point where begging others for help is the better way to go? And how to do this in a way that does not dishonor God, myself, and my children?

I have prided myself on being financially independent of others for the last 12 years of my marriage. I have supported my family as best I can. But maybe that pride is misplaced right now? Maybe I should give it up, humble myself, and seek help from others with hat in hand?

I know I have already been given much. Although I have never asked others, people have almost forced me to take things from them. For example, my rich brother has essentially clothed all my boys with hand me downs (many of them worn only once or twice) from his own kids. Other people have offered us things they don’t need, and we have always accepted what we need from those offers gratefully.

I’d appreciate any advice people can offer. Especially from folks with large families, although advice from others will also be appreciated.

God bless,
Ut
Click to expand...
I have never needed to borrow money from my family, and I think I would personally have to be at the point of starvation before I would go that route, and by that point I’d be eligible for government assistance. Pride may be a factor, but I think I have legitimate reasons as well. First of all, my dad and step-mother are practically carrying a sign begging to be taken advantage of. They literally can’t say no to anyone and I’ve seen many, many people take advantage of them to the point that they are in serious financial straights themselves and at risk for losing their home. Even so, I know that if I asked for something, they would find the last loan shark out there to sign them up it give it to me and so I can’t, in good conscience, ask them for anything. With my mother, any “help” comes with severe, passive-aggressive bullying that far exceeds the life of the loan. No thanks.

Assuming that your family isn’t composed the way mine is, I don’t think it’s automatically a horrible to thing to ask for help when crisis strikes, but I would be hard pressed to do so if I wasn’t doing all I could do on my own. In the circumstances you mentioned, it sounds less like asking for help and more like accepting hand-me-downs that your brother was getting rid of anyway and accepting an occasional treat. Accepting a kind gift from someone is really different than asking them to help you with what you are responsible for. I don’t see anything wrong with that.
 
Just a slight follow up.

What about experiences of providential care? Again, the context is large families… Have you ever experienced this in terms of material goods or financial help that just seems to come at the right time? All of that assuming that one has tried one’s best to manage one’s finances and resources responsibly, of course.

God bless,
Ut
 
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