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followingtheway
Guest
Are you leaving the (Latin Rite) Roman Catholic Church?
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Marsha_Adams
Guest
Yes you are leaving the “Roman” Latin Rite and entering whichever Eastern Rite, but you are still Catholic and in Union with Rome.
It is my understanding (and you would need to find someone with more expertise than I to be sure) that there are very strict rules about changing rites. For example, I could not leave the Latin Rite and join the Malobar Rite - it would not be permitted. If my father had been a member of the Malobar Rite but my mother was Latin Rite and I was raised Latin Rite, then I could leave the Latin Rite and join the Malobar Rite, but not otherwise. If I remember correctly there is a document from Vatican II discussing this topic.
It is my understanding (and you would need to find someone with more expertise than I to be sure) that there are very strict rules about changing rites. For example, I could not leave the Latin Rite and join the Malobar Rite - it would not be permitted. If my father had been a member of the Malobar Rite but my mother was Latin Rite and I was raised Latin Rite, then I could leave the Latin Rite and join the Malobar Rite, but not otherwise. If I remember correctly there is a document from Vatican II discussing this topic.
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Speedypizza
Guest
Wait a second, I was never a Catholic, I was a Baptist and then a pagan. I am right now in RCIA. Are you telling me that once I become a member of the Latin Rite I am stuck there? Maybe I should hold off coming into the church until I am sure this is the Rite I like the best…
Pax
Pax
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followingtheway
Guest
No. :nope: Who said that?
In fact, you can switch rites. The Malobar rite is the only one you can’t join.
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Marat
Guest
Why not?No. :nope: Who said that?
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OurLadyOfLove1
Guest
I’m curious but why?No. :nope: Who said that?
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OurLadyOfLove1
Guest
What rite do you think you would like to be part of?Wait a second, I was never a Catholic, I was a Baptist and then a pagan. I am right now in RCIA. Are you telling me that once I become a member of the Latin Rite I am stuck there? Maybe I should hold off coming into the church until I am sure this is the Rite I like the best…
Pax
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Aramis
Guest
The Malabar Church (not Rite - they’re in the East Syrian Rite (aka Chaldean Rite) along with several other Churches Sui Iuris: the Chaldeans and the Syrian Catholics) doesn’t generally want Latins jumping ship to them. And that’s their right. It’s not a “Can’t” as a “Please Don’t”…
Also, note that the Knanaya Catholics are part of their church, are a distinct population and usage of the Syro-Malabar liturgy, and only accept new members by marriage. The Knanaya are granted several special considerations, and one can’t become Knanaya by any means other than by birth - even marrying in only gets you in while it lasts. They have a separate non-geographical diocese, as well, whose bishop answers to the SMCC’s Synod, but otherwise is distinct.
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Formosus
Guest
People do not belong to “rites” , they belong to churches. When one switches from the Latin church to an eastern church, they are leaving the Latin church and joining an eastern one. You can switch churches once you join any catholic church so its not permanent. I am unaware of any law in the catholic church saying one can not become a malabar catholic, but I have heard of such a thing restricting membership in the malabar church in communion with the assyrian apostolic church of the east.
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Marsha_Adams
Guest
My understanding - and again check with an expert - is that the rite jumping prohibition was created in order to protect the Eastern Rites from extinction in areas where the Latin Rite is more numerous.
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jmjconder
Guest
**PLEASE do not place this process on hold.Wait a second, I was never a Catholic, I was a Baptist and then a pagan. I am right now in RCIA. Are you telling me that once I become a member of the Latin Rite I am stuck there? Maybe I should hold off coming into the church until I am sure this is the Rite I like the best…
Pax
You would not be “stuck” in the Latin Rite. The Latin Rite and Eastern Rite are the same Catholic Church. It is only about the way each celebrates Liturgy and the Sacraments.
PLEASE enter the Church - then attend Liturgies of the Eastern Rite - then decide.
Promise prayers for you. Please keep me informed.
BTW - I love the Eastern Liturgy and celebration of the Sacraments!
Just enter - God will lead you to the Rite that is best for you.**
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ConstantineTG
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Vico
Guest
Yes. H.H. Pope Leo XIII, in Orientalium Dignitas (1894) generalized the rules of Benedict XIV originally promulgated respecting the Greek Melkites:
“Any Latin rite missionary, whether of the secular or religious clergy, who induces with his advice or assistance any Eastern rite faithful to transfer to the Latin rite, will be deposed and excluded from his benefice in addition to the ipso facto suspension a divinis and other punishments that he will incur as imposed in the aforesaid Constitution Demandatam.”
Orientalium Ecclesiarum (1964):
- All members of the Eastern Rite should know and be convinced that they can and should always preserve their legitimate liturgical rite and their established way of life, and that these may not be altered except to obtain for themselves an organic improvement. All these, then, must be observed by the members of the Eastern rites themselves. Besides, they should attain to on ever greater knowledge and a more exact use of them, and, if in their regard they have fallen short owing to contingencies of times and persons, they should take steps to return to their ancestral traditions.
That became in the CCEO in 1990:
CCEO Canon 12
- The Christian faithful are bound by an obligation in their own patterns of activity always to maintain communion with the Church.
- They are to fulfill with great diligence the duties which they owe to the universal Church and to their own Church sui iuris.
The Christian faithful have the right to worship God according to the prescriptions of their own Church sui iuris, and to follow their own form of spiritual life consonant with the teaching of the Church.
CCEO Canon 32
- No one can validly transfer to another Church sui iuris without the consent of the Apostolic See.
- In the case of Christian faithful of an eparchy of a certain Church sui iuris who petition to transfer to another Church sui iuris which has its own eparchy in the same territory, this consent of the Apostolic See is presumed, provided that the eparchial bishops of both eparchies consent to the transfer in writing.
A wife is at liberty to transfer to the Church of the husband at the celebration of or during the marriage; when the marriage has ended, she can freely return to the original Church sui iuris.
CCEO Canon 40. 3
Other Christian faithful are also to foster an understanding and appreciation of their own rite, and are held to observe it everywhere unless something is excused by the law.
CCEO Canon 403
- With due regard for the right and obligation to preserve everywhere their own rite, lay persons have the right to participate actively in the liturgical celebrations of any Church sui iuris whatsoever, according to the norms of the liturgical books.
CIC
Can. 111 §1. Through the reception of baptism, the child of parents who belong to the Latin Church is enrolled in it, or, if one or the other does not belong to it, both parents have chosen by mutual agreement to have the offspring baptized in the Latin Church. If there is no mutual agreement, however, the child is enrolled in the ritual Church to which the father belongs.
§2. Anyone to be baptized who has completed the fourteenth year of age can freely choose to be baptized in the Latin Church or in another ritual Church sui iuris; in that case, the person belongs to the Church which he or she has chosen.
Can. 112 §1 After the reception of baptism, the following become members of another autonomous ritual Church:
1° those who have obtained permission from the Apostolic See;
2° a spouse who, on entering marriage or during its course, has declared that he or she is transferring to the autonomous ritual
Church of the other spouse; on the dissolution of the marriage, however, that person may freely return to the latin Church;
3° the children of those mentioned in nn. 1 and 2 who have not completed their fourteenth year, and likewise in a mixed marriage the children of a catholic party who has lawfully transferred to another ritual Church; on completion of their fourteenth year, however, they may return to the latin Church.
§2 The practice, however long standing, of receiving the sacraments according to the rite of an autonomous ritual Church, does not bring with it membership of that Church.
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5Loaves
Guest
Were you baptized in a Baptist Church, with water and in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit? If so, then you are a Christian in the eyes of the Catholic Church and you can be received into full communion in the Church, by the Sacrament of Confirmation, whenever you and your priest determine you are ready to make a profession of faith and have made a confession. Reception into full communion normally takes place on a Sunday in a Mass, but it can take place on other days. I was received into the Church in a weekday Mass. It is preferable that reception not take place at the Easter Vigil, which is intended for the unbaptized to receive Christian Initiation, i.e. Baptism, Confirmation, Holy Eucharist. (U.S. Conference of Bishops, National Statues for the Catechumenate, Nov. 11, 1986, page 368Statute #32 and #33)Wait a second, I was never a Catholic, I was a Baptist and then a pagan. I am right now** in RCIA**. Are you telling me that once I become a member of the Latin Rite I am stuck there? Maybe I should hold off coming into the church until I am sure this is the Rite I like the best…
Pax
All protestants come into the Latin Church, canonically, even if they are received and Chrismated in an Eastern or Oriental Catholic Church. You are free as a Catholic to worship fully in any of our 23 Catholic Churches.
Your canonical status really only comes up regarding the Sacrament/Holy Mystery of Marriage and ordination to Holy Orders.
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JJRfan
Guest
Yes, you are leaving the Latin (a.k.a. Roman or Western) Catholic Church. You are only leaving one of the twenty-three sui iuris Catholic Churches to translate (i.e. transfer) to another one.
BTW you are leaving a church not a rite.
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Alexander_Roman
Guest
You should become an Eastern Catholic then, since you will find in our Church elements of all of the traditions you were associated with !Wait a second, I was never a Catholic, I was a Baptist and then a pagan. I am right now in RCIA. Are you telling me that once I become a member of the Latin Rite I am stuck there? Maybe I should hold off coming into the church until I am sure this is the Rite I like the best…
Pax
Alex
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JJRfan
Guest
Yes, as you say you will be “stuck” there. Why would you want to change churches? (Btw it is churches we are members of and change between, not rites.) If you are now considering becoming an Eastern Catholic I would advise you to speak to your priest. I believe that the Church says when you are received into the Catholic Church from a non-Catholic one you must enter the Catholic Church that is someway similar to your current non-Catholic Church. For Protestants this means entering the Latin Catholic Church. Please note, you may also call the Latin Catholic Church the Roman Catholic Church or the Western Catholic Church. It is usually members of the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox Churches that are received into the Catholic Church as a member of one of the Eastern and Oriental Catholic Churches.Wait a second, I was never a Catholic, I was a Baptist and then a pagan. I am right now in RCIA. Are you telling me that once I become a member of the Latin Rite I am stuck there? Maybe I should hold off coming into the church until I am sure this is the Rite I like the best…
Pax
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jmjconder
Guest
**I have reflected for some time on your post.
I would agree that the Eastern Rite has a distinct praxis. However on the topic of theology I am wondering…if the Eastern and Western Rite are of the same Catholic Church…why would there be a different theology?
Are not the Eastern and Western Rite of the same Catholic Church?
Please explain if both Rites are of the same Universal Church…they do not hold the same theology?
I am not asking to create controversy…I am trying to understand your post.**
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ConstantineTG
Guest
Theology means the understanding of faith. Since East and West came from two different pools of thought (Latin vs. Greek philosophy) therefore the development of theology is different. Completely different in fact that some people who do not take the time and patience to delve deep into the underlying faith might think that they are two completely different faiths. But its just how the faith came to be understood with how the cultures are diverse in understanding the same basic truths. For example, just how “original sin” is understood in each context is different enough that it usually generates pages of debates on this very forum.
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5Loaves
Guest
I recommend for starters “Eastern Catholic Theology” with Fr. Abbot Nicholas of Holy Resurrection Monastery PART 1 and PART 2
Also “Who are Eastern Catholics?” with Fr. Maximos of HRM PART 1 and PART 2
In each of these you can click on the " (more info)" below the video window to bring up a list of all the questions Catherine asks in each segment.
(I think Fr Maximos early on in the “Who are Eastern Catholics?” Part 1 speaks about the “Rite” “Church” terms.)
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