When your health practitioners' morals conflict with yours

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pensmama87

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In most cases, it may not affect your care, but when it comes to issues that do, how do you address this, and has it worked for you?

My situation: I receive all of my gynecological and obstetric care from a group of certified nurse-midwives. I found them when I was pregnant with my first, and the OB I saw first was very nice but did not offer what I wanted as all as far as standard of care (lots of routine interventions, didn’t trust my dating of the pregnancy, etc.) I found this group and they were very pro-natural childbirth, trusted me to read and know what was going on with me, etc. I had two very good pregnancies and deliveries with them.

Shortly after my second was born, the midwife who delivered my first retired, and since then there’s been a subtle shift in how this group “markets” themselves. I followed their FB page for updates, and they have since hired several new people in various positions (which I initially was happy about, because I knew their practice was expanding and they could accommodate more clients), but the attributes they are choosing to highlight include “gay rights” and “abortion rights” activism, instead of pro-woman, pro-baby care. They also share news articles about those, and have mostly left behind stories about increasing breastfeeding rates, lowering C-section rates, better birthing outcomes, etc. that were what attracted me to their practice in the first place. Even though it’s well documented on my chart that I do not want contraception, I was pushed a lot on it after my second was born, which I did not appreciate. So far all very subtle, but it indicates a direction they are heading that I don’t like.

I know there are lots of faithful Catholic women who go to them for care. They’re the only option in my area for out-of-hospital birth (and homebirth is illegal in my state - so if I got pregnant and wanted that, I would have to go unassisted or with an unlicensed midwife, which I’m not willing to do.) The pickings for pro-life doctors in my area, that I know about, are very slim, and I have no idea about their standards of care. I know what I’m experiencing is very “par for the course” for gynecological care, so I’m curious how other faithful Catholic women handle it. Do you try your best to ignore the immoral stuff and just count your blessings? Do you subtly witness to your faith by continuing to refuse to consent to practices that don’t align with your values? Do you complain when these types of things happen? What sort of priority do you place on a person being pro-life when it comes to choosing your own medical care? Would you agree to pro-life medical care even if that meant your personal care might be less than optimal?

Note: I am NOT seeking medical advice in this thread, just trying to figure out how to negotiate relationships with medical care providers about moral issues.
 
I think it really depends on how in your face they get about it. The fact that they are on fb, posting offensive articles combined with the pushing of contraceptives (more than just a single inquiry) would be enough for me to leave the practice.

I was in a practice with 2 OBs, and one CNM (Certified Nurse Midwife). I generally liked the practice. The male OB was fine, if a little stand offish, the lady OB was my favorite, nice personable, and understanding, and the CNM had a terrible bedside manner as well as saying things I was uncomfortable with.

After the birth of my first child, she asked me if I wanted contraception, I said no, and that we used NFP, which was clearly marked on my chart. She came back with a sneering remark at how NFP doesn’t work if you are breastfeeding. (Of course when I successfully charted my return of fertility at months, despite breastfeeding, I wanted to go back and rub my charts in her nose). But this was the only time I really experienced anything like that, and by itself wouldn’t have been enough to make me go to another practice. She was unfortunately the one on call when my second was born, and I did not like her care in the delivery room either. (She broke my water after I had only been in labor for 2 hours, and was already 6cm dilated. This put the baby into distress, and I had to push him out before I was fulled dilated/effaced). We moved out of the area after that, and I was very happy to have a reason to find a new provider.

Your provider doesn’t need to necessarily share all your moral beliefs, but they have to respect yours. If they don’t respect your beliefs and feelings about medical care, then it is time to find a new provider.
 
jilly4ski said:
I think it really depends on how in your face they get about it. The fact that they are on fb, posting offensive articles combined with the pushing of contraceptives (more than just a single inquiry) would be enough for me to leave the practice.

Your provider doesn’t need to necessarily share all your moral beliefs, but they have to respect yours. If they don’t respect your beliefs and feelings about medical care, then it is time to find a new provider.
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Exactly. If your practice is willing to work within your moral parameters–which are not at all unreasonable, even for people who disagree with them–that’s one thing; if they start pushing contraceptives in your face and deriding your preferences and beliefs, that’s quite another, and very unprofessional to boot.
 
It’s hard to say because there seem to be so few options. All you can do is compare your options and choose what you believe is rhe best. There are no prolife options in my area, no Catholic OBs or MWs. We did have a “Catholic” MW, whose practice was even named after Our Lady but she openly supported many things that went against the Church and openly lived a lifestyle that goes against Church teaching. So what can we do when we have no good options? Pray about it and follow your heart.
 
Finding someone who agrees 100% may be hard. I draw the line at using someone who performs abortions.
 
I really struggle with this too!! I am expecting baby #7 in March. The doctor who delivered my first two babies worked for a catholic hospital but had terrible bedside manner and the staff was always pushing ABC and made me feel very ignorant when I declined!! So I went on a major search for a new ob-gyn - called around, did research, etc. I am not aware of any exclusively pro-life doctor in our area but I did come across an ob who had 8 kids of his own and his values seemed more in line with mine. Loved him, but, unfortunately, after my third baby he retired! So I was looking again. I switched to another group of female doctors/midwives. I came to really like one of the midwives. She was in her early 50s and seemed to be very caring and peppy!! She delivered babies 4, 5, and 6. She is probably not prolife, but she knew my wishes, respected them, and was very supportive. Well, at about 20 weeks with my current pregnancy, she told me that she was leaving for another practice too far away for me to go to. I seriously cried over this. I had come to really like her and appreciate her peppy attitude during labor!!!

So now I am bouncing around the office seeing different people all the time. Since no one sees me exclusively, I feel like I need to explain all my “issues” over and over again. I am not liking this office because they schedule me with someone different every time!! I mean, am I unusual in wanting to see the same person?? Wouldn’t an ob/midwife want to continue seeing the same patients to become more familiar with them? I just heard that the other midwife who I would probably request to see exclusively is also leaving. So now I wonder about the whole practice in general?? Why are they all suddenly leaving?? I can’t hardly switch with less than 5 weeks to go and this could be my last baby:confused: I am sure I will be pushed for ABC again after my baby is born. 😦 Kind of makes me sad because this is such a special moment for us and that person who cares for me and helps deliver ends up being pretty special to me too!!!

I have to admit, even though I really liked my last midwife, I was surprised when I told her we were using Creighton, that she had never heard of it!!! Really!!! Even if an ob/ midwife does prescribe ABC, I would think they should all at least be familiar with different NFP methods for those that choose that. I really think they should be able to help with charting, etc. It’s just basic biology, right?? Instead, the ones I have come across, don’t seem to know anything about normal biology and just want to circumvent it with ABC. Doesn’t make any sense to me:shrug:
 
I go to a group practice. As far as I am aware, there are no pro-life OBGYNs around here, so my options are limited too. I like my doctor a lot, she respects me, and I am comfortable with her so I just listen to what she has to say and politely either decline whatever is being offered or explain I am morally opposed to it or whatever. Something I found really ironic is when I went in for my first prenatal exam recently, I glanced at the pregnancy wheel they used and it was manufactured by Ortho Tri-Cyclen. What? :confused:

Anyway, I’m okay with going to them because I don’t really have any other options and because I do have a good doctor who I trust and who is respectful. If she wasn’t, I’d find another. In your case, though, being pushed about contraception and going to a practice that feels the need to promote abortion rights would really bother me. I would probably look for another practice, in that case, even if I couldn’t find a pro-life doctor.
 
To my knowledge, there are no openly pro-life doctors in my area that accept my insurance. I have come to expect that my doctors will not share my beliefs, and I emotionally and mentally prepare myself for it.

I find it helpful to explain my beliefs in ways that make sense to a non-believer and show I’m not making an uninformed decision. For instance, when we were going through evaluation for infertility and the subject of insemination came up, I told my doctor something like, “It’s important to me that our baby is conceived through marital relations.” She looked at me funny, but didn’t push the issue. Or, later, when OB asked about my postpartum birth control choice at my 36 week prenatal visit, she was concerned that it wouldn’t be effective after 6 months. I explained that I had taken a NFP class specifically designed for breast-feeding/postpartum women, and she said, “oh, okay” and left it at that.
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I know that in my area, many providers are all about "patient satisfaction" scores. If they are not respecting your beliefs and preferences, it might help to frame it that way so they see it as a problem. They may not see it that way now; they probably think they are helping "educate" their patients. Most doctors don't learn anything about NFP in medical school, except that it is supposedly ineffective and to discourage it. I am not above educating providers with articles, although bear in mind that they probably won't take anything besides peer-reviewed research seriously. Here's one example: [aafp.org/afp/2012/1115/p924.html](http://www.aafp.org/afp/2012/1115/p924.html)
OP, it seems strange for a midwife practice to promote abortion, though. You might consider unfollowing them on facebook and encourage the other faithful catholic women who are their patients to do the same. If their following is small enough, they might notice the number dropping and change what they post.
 
jilly4ski said:

“Your provider doesn’t need to necessarily share all your moral beliefs, but they have to respect yours.”

Yep.

I’m not sure what my OB/GYN’s views are on everything, but she’s competent, she has a good bedside manner and she’s respectful. She obviously was heart-and-soul committed to making sure that my last pregnancy came to a successful conclusion.
 
This is an interesting question, and one that I wish more providers would read about. My first 2 children were delivered by the same OB who delivered me and my siblings. Since that is the only doctor I had ever been to, I just kind of went to him out of default. After both of my children, ABC was pushed at me and both times I was asked repeatedly if I wanted to have my tubes tied. (Note: I was only 21 when I had my first and 26 with my second, so I don’t even think the hospital would have allowed it, but I digress.) With the second one, sterilization was really pushed on me, and I have no idea why seeing as how I am married, have insurance and am able to support my kids, etc. etc. (Not that those make me better able to be a mother, just that I cannot understand in their eyes why I wouldn’t want more children especially considering that I told them repeatedly that I am Catholic and do not want ABC/Sterilization).

Now that I am pregnant with # 3, I asked the Mom’s group at my church for recommendations. One mother gave me a recommendation for a doctor that is right around the corner from my house and the nearest hospital. I told her that I do not ever want sterilization or to be offered ABC and she was totally fine with that. HOWEVER, there are a lot of signs in the office promoting ABC, and it does bother me to know that other women in the office are being prescribed them.

Now, in my city, there is a Caritas. It is Catholic Obstetrical Care and the doctors there do not prescribe ABC at all. However, they deliver babies at an older hospital with poor reviews and the drive is about an hour away from my house with traffic. If I were to go into labor, that could be a problem. I am actually planning on talking to my priest about my moral obligations when it comes to choosing and paying a doctor who provides services that are outside of the Church’s teachings.

I know that one previous poster indicated that she would stop short of anyone who provides abortions. I agree, however remember that ABC is abortifacient itself and so by prescribing it, doctors are in effect administering the possibility of abortion.
 
I had a stroke because of the BCP (19 years old) before I found my faith.
My OBGYN new of this, and still pushed me on BCP’s a decade later; I stopped when I felt the signs of a stroke again and the doctor belittled me. I never went back.

“Women of Grace” (EWTN) suggested challenging the provider to examine more scientific ways to fix problems.
 
Like other posters, I’d never use an OB who provides abortions. If I didn’t have the option of a pro-life OB, I’d find one who could at least be respectful of my beliefs even if he didn’t agree with them.

I would also be cautious in how I phrased certain things. “Contraception is evil!” is true, of course, but will hardly win the respect of a doctor who’s been taught the exact opposite his entire life. (I’m not for a moment suggesting that’s how you approached it–just using it as an example. 🙂 ) “If my husband and I decide we need more space between children, we plan on using the fertility awareness method in order to do so” may open a door to a respectful discussion of one’s beliefs, but even if it doesn’t, it should be sufficient for a caregiver to note in the chart that he or she has discussed birth control with you. Do bear in mind that one may be a good OB without agreeing entirely with the Catholic position on such things, and that because of medical school education being what it is, most caregivers in that position would consider themselves neglectful in not bringing the subject up. (Obviously, the examples you cite in that midwifery practice are, to say the least, obnoxious.) I suspect that after this kiddo comes, my OB (who is Christian and pro-life, but I don’t think he’s Catholic) will probably ask what our BC plans are. However, I’m very blessed in that he both understands FAM/STM, and won’t bat an eye when I say that’s what we’ll use.

If I were you, I’d be honest but polite with the practice. Bring up the fact that you had ABC pushed on you so vigorously, and explain how you felt about it. If it were me, I’d say something like “I recognize that you believe that it is among your responsibilities as my caregiver to bring up the question of birth control, and I respect that. At the same time, please respect both my beliefs and my ability as a woman to make choices about my own body by not pressuring me to take or do something against my beliefs. When you (or “your staff”) continued to pressure me to use contraception even after I explained that I was not interested, I did not feel that I was treated with the appropriately respectful level of care I came to expect from your facility. I do appreciate your concerns about the FAM, and if you have any questions, I’d be happy to explain the method further or give you a copy of ‘Taking Charge of Your Fertility*’ for your office’s use.” Such a statement might make them think.

As for using a Catholic caregiver with a substandard level of care rather than a non-Catholic caregiver with a better one, I’d weigh my choices carefully. Assuming that neither performs abortions, I’d probably interview each and see what my gut told me. I am not a believer in accepting substandard services from someone just because they share my religion, but I also try not to encourage those who are rude enough to be publically and vehemently against it, either.

*assuming you’re using the STM; if not, substitute the title of the manual you are using. I like to recommend TCOYF to non-Catholics because it’s written from a secular perspective and by a midwife, and some aspects of the NFP movement can be very off-putting to those who aren’t Catholic.
 
If you wouldn’t hire a hit man to be your babysitter, why would you hire an abortionist to by your OB? The logic seems analogous to me…

This is perhaps one of the few great things about living in a mega-metro area. It really is great to be able to find NFP-friendly doctors who won’t have anything to do with abortion.

downersgroveob.com/#!faq/c1lkv
 
UbiCaritas said:
“If my husband and I decide we need more space between children, we plan on using the fertility awareness method in order to do so” may open a door to a respectful discussion of one’s beliefs, but even if it doesn’t, it should be sufficient for a caregiver to note in the chart that he or she has discussed birth control with you.
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This is basically what I did the first time around when family planning came up after the birth of my first. The nurse (also sadly gone) said “NFP? Oh, great. Do you need help connecting to a class? We have info on that if you need it.” 😃

This last time it was a lot different. It’s documented on my chart under birth control method AND religious beliefs, and I was still told “make sure you let us know if you want an IUD at your 6-week postpartum visit,” after telling the nurse at my 2-week postpartum checkup that I was not planning on using birth control (in contrast to my first postpartum experience, she literally stared at me with her mouth open, glaring at me), and then told by the midwife at 6 weeks “Well, you’re due for your regular checkup in January, but since you’re just leaving it up to chance maybe I’ll see you before then.” They’re small things in and of themselves, but they’ve changed from what I experienced before and it’s the opposite of why I sought them out in the first place.

I guess it comes down to what I’m willing to accept. Not everyone may be like me, but I’d rather put up and deal with telling someone “No birth control, thanks” a bunch of times than see an OB that’s likely to push me to induce or augment labor or do a C-section unnecessarily. I did go ahead and unlike their FB page since it’s only annoyed me recently. I really don’t care about their political views as long as it doesn’t interfere with my care, so it’s not like I sought it out, although I did know that they prescribed contraception (they do not perform abortions - AFAIK there is only one place in my area that does and it’s a PP) They have just posted several “rah-rah” type articles about the “expansion of reproductive rights” as part of Obamacare and lots of pro-lesbian parenting things. I get that it’s a kind of “crunchy” practice so that might appeal to a certain subset that leans to the left, but there are a LOT of people who go there who wouldn’t agree on those issues (not to mention, we’re probably the ones who are going to have more kids!)

I may start looking at other practices in the area just so I can have a backup. The huge drawback with looking elsewhere is that it means hospital birth, which I know CAN go fine (my first birth was a non-emergency transfer to hospital) but so much depends on which hospital and who ends up being on staff that day. Then again, I’m not even pregnant nor likely to be in the very near future, so maybe I should wait to cross that bridge when I come to it.
 
I went to a local OB for Pap smears and check ups for years before I became pregnant. They also prescribed me BCPs as this was a time before I converted. When I became pregnant I found I disliked the practice very much. I never saw my OB once and they screwed up my dates and began pushing for an induction when there was no medical reason to do so. I went into labor naturally but still never saw my OB. At my follow up, BCPs was pushed despite my explanation of NFP.

Thankfully we had moved at that point anyway and I had to go looking for a new OB. This time I wanted a midwife and after a little bit of hunting I found a good one that a number of ladies at my parish also see.

She is fabulous and I had a fantastic labor and delivery with my second with her. I was asked once if I was planning on using BC but I told her we chart. She smiled and was fine with that. She had four kids herself.
 
pensmama87 said:
I guess it comes down to what I’m willing to accept. Not everyone may be like me, but I’d rather put up and deal with telling someone “No birth control, thanks” a bunch of times than see an OB that’s likely to push me to induce or augment labor or do a C-section unnecessarily.
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This is pretty much what it boils down to for me right now. I am very picky about my obstetrical care because I really like to avoid c-sections and inductions. Both of which were very likely to have occurred with my twin pregnancy if I had been with a different doctor. My OB still offered me an IUD and BCP (as a solution to an issue beyond avoiding pregnancy) since the twins were born but it was always half hearted and she was never pushy about it. When I turned down the BCP, she did give me an alternative treatment option. I don’t know what I’ll do when she retires. 🤷
 
pensmama87 said:

“I guess it comes down to what I’m willing to accept. Not everyone may be like me, but I’d rather put up and deal with telling someone “No birth control, thanks” a bunch of times than see an OB that’s likely to push me to induce or augment labor or do a C-section unnecessarily.”

If you’ve successfully had two babies without a c-section, the average OB is not going to be in hurry to push things along unnecessarily. I had gestational diabetes with my last pregnancy, an induction that went very slowly at first, and what turned out to be a 9 pound baby, but knowing that I’d successfully birthed a 10+ pounder before, my OB let me be and I had the baby within about 9 hours of the start of the induction. A “proven pelvis” is a big deal with OBs.

“They’re small things in and of themselves, but they’ve changed from what I experienced before and it’s the opposite of why I sought them out in the first place.”

It sounds like you and the midwife practice have grown apart, so to speak.
 
I have no idea about our general practitioners since the topic has never come up, but they’ve never suggested anything contrary to our beliefs and have been supportive of our family decisions. We’ve been very lucky with my wife’s OB/GYN’s. Their practice is at one of the local hospitals. I’ve never inquired about whether they do abortions but since it’s through the hospital it’s likely a possibility. I do know that her primary OB/GYN was raised Catholic and one of the others at least had a Catholic wedding. When our 4th was born shortly after my wife’s first miscarriage, her doctor asked whether she wanted her tubes tied or if we needed information about birth control. I told him we were practicing Catholics. He said that was great, patted me on the shoulder and never asked about it again. The other doctors have also been very supportive. If we had one who advocated abortion or openly criticized any of our decisions regarding our family size or contraceptive choices, I’d be looking for another doctor.
 
I feel so incredibly blessed.

My GYN is Catholic. And an “NFP only” doctor, as well.

My Family Doctor is also Catholic. As is my dentist. And my orthopedist.

I drive 2 hours to see my GYN. But all of the others live in the same town and we all attend the same parish.

Maybe the place to find doctors is at your parish?
 
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