When your spouse has a personality disorder

[Boccherini]

I am sorry about the problems you are having.

It is difficult to give advice on the Internet because there’s so much I can’t know, I don’t know your husband’s side of the story, I don’t know what kind of circumstances you live in, etc.

It surprises me that your therapist would speculate about your husband’s possible diagnosis. Does the therapist even know him? Receiving the diagnosis of a personality disorder requires a specific kind of lengthy interview. It requires ruling out a lot of other possibilities.

Actually the point I wanted to bring up was - you have been married a long time. Has your husband’s personality always been a problem or has it become one now? Why? Has his personality changed? What do other people think about this? If not, what is different now? It isn’t normal for a person’s personality to change a lot during adulthood. Personality change can even result from a brain tumor or brain disease. So you should consider taking him to a doctor (again, I don’t know what access you have to health care.). People don’t develop personality disorders later in life, although they can get worse.

You obviously don’t need to answer these questions here. They are something to think about.

 

[petitfleur]

My articulation skills on this blog must suck. Blame is NOT my focus; however 1 COR 13 (I must read 2-3 times a day) has taught me we can only change ourselves. In trying to get you to change yourself instead of your family, I have come across blunt and rude. However, I stand by you need to focus on how to get your husband to heaven.

As for having childreen as you described, I have already been the child who burnt themselves with cigarette, I have already been the child who though my father was too perfect … I have experienced your situation from your childrens perspective … I have had deep suicial tendancies several times in my life. The major difference is that I was a motherless child. Looking back, a loving mother would have been a blessing and a curse. As I read between the lines on your efforts, your focus on the kids is part of what is tearing the marriage apart … “Let no one separate what God put together” … This includes kids … Again, sorry if I am too abrupt, m life experiences have left me still a little jagged. However, despite all my harsh life experiences, I have turned to God and try not to keep my eyes focused off God. My dad (rip) is probably crying tears of joy on how I turned my life around after smothering (his death) stopped.

My DH might too be OCD. Yes, I’m still reading 1 Cor 13 to change me instead of falsely beliving I can change him.

I am sorry GG for your pain. When dealing with an abusive situation OP can be a saint and still terribly mistreated. It would not matter, and if he really has a disorder how do we know God does not take that into account, my severely handicapped sister is incapable of sin, how do we know how God judges the mentally ill? I don’t think a person is extra holy because they put up with abuse. I also no many people who hate God for being told to endure it. And “it’s your job to get him to heavan” it is a horrible thing to say to a person actually. Like I said this is not like dealing with a normal person. To some extent it may be impossible for them to change.

 

[Denise1957]

I don’t know if this at all applies, or is feasible but will throw it out there just to think about.

Your husband does not sound like the type of person who can be reasoned with easily. I propose this:

1. When there is a calm moment, talk to him and explain one way he can treat you with more respect. For example, no yelling… Or no talking to me like a 2 year old.
2. By itself #1 won’t work, but at least you have articulated how he needs to change his behavior. If he disagrees with you are starts to argue, then cease the discussion immediately. Do not argue with him at all.
3. When he treats you in a matter you told him was disrespectful, immediately walk out of the house. Take a drive somewhere or a walk around the block. Don’t say anything - just do it.
4. Return home and see how he reacts. If he starts laying into you, turn right back around and leave the house again.
5. Repeat steps 3 and 4 until he stops treating you disrespectfully for the day or evening.
6. If he has questions or wants to talk about this, only do so when he is calm and lets you talk. If he starts to argue or interrupt, again cease the conversation and walk away.

The idea here is to tell him that what he is doing is harmful by using actions and not words, and without resorting to more drastic measures.

This has worked for me in a somewhat different, somewhat similar situation. It may not apply to you. In fact, it may be bad advice for you. If so, please accept my apology for wasting your time. You and yours are in my prayers.

I don’t know much about this disorder, but the above advice sounds like a reasonable way to start to deal with the situation. Nobody has to take abusive behavior such as the husband is showing in this case.

My husband and I just found out that our youngest son’s girlfriend probably has borderline personality disorder. Our hope is that he will break up with her soon. A friend who is a former crisis counselor said that with this disorder, it’s important for the family members of the person with the disorder to set bounderies, and not allow themselves to be manipulated. It’s quite stressful for my husband and I to see our son being manipulated (and isolated from us) by this young woman. I pray for her, but she’ll need a lot of counselling and seeking God’s help if she has any hope for getting over the problem, IMO. And my son will have to set firm boundaries with her, which he has trouble doing.

 

[Rose71]

I will pray for you and your family too!

I just wanted to reiterate what a few posters have written: until you are involved in a situation where a person has, sadly, either not accepted they have a personality disporder, or refused to seek treatment, you have no idea of the anguish it can cause!

I have every sympathy with people suffering from mental illness and I try to remember to pray regularly to St. Dymphna for them and their families and friends. I have close friends and relatives who suffer in this way and I’ve seen their bewliderment and frustration as they try to make sense of the world around them and the way other people respond.

On the flip-side, I have also witnessed the effects of people who refuse to acknowledge that they have a problem, or refuse to believe any treatment can help. The effects of their behaviour are like a stone in a pond - the ripples reach out through family and friends and affect so many people besides themselves! In our family, my sister in law’s refusal to consider professional help has lead to misery for her and her husband, who has struggled to be a good husband for nearly 12 years, but now copes by staying out of her way as much as possible. They have a son who is desperate for reassurance and consistency, but who is now treated like a pawn in her manipulative ‘games’ (this is perhaps unfair, because I am sure that in her head, she genuinely can’t see how bizarre and counterproductive her behaviour is) My parents are, instead of enjoying their final years on Earth, in a constant state of stress and worry. I have been driven almost to the point of a nervous breakdown by her antics, as she tries to drive a wedge between my brother and me and as I try to keep an eye on my nephew.

The most tragic thing of it all is that from time to time, we see glimpses of a lovely, warm, funny, intelligent and talented lady who could be a fantastic mother and a wonderful wife. I’ve told her this several times, but she just can’t make that leap in her mind to get help and be the person she could be.

There comes a point where one can’t risk being dragged under and has to keep their distance and I’ve reached it! For my own sanity and for the sake of my own marriage, I now avoid her whenever possible and keep all communication with her to brief and polite.

Next time you are tempted (anyone - not specific posters on here) to be critical of a person with a disorder, or a person dealing with an affected person - just bite your tongue for a moment and ask St. Dymphna to help!

 

[Eliza10]

Madame Butterfly,

I am so sorry for your suffering. You and your sons will be in my prayers. :console:

After having done a lot of research I am convinced my father has a personality disorder. Not the same thing as your husband, but still it was bad enough to heavily impact the mental health of all the family members.

He left my mother after 26 years of marriage and that was a blessing. All of my memories of my mother as I was growing up was her being under enormous stress. Walking on eggshells. Showing signs of anxiety. Never knowing what was coming next. Always being on the edge and exploding on us kids for small things.

After they separated it took her a few years to fully recover but now a days she is a calm, happy woman. Once the source of toxicity left her life she started to go back to her normal self. That is what she told me once: that she feels like herself again, after all the years of abuse.

My brother and I suffered immensely when we were younger, and while my brother’s relationship with our dad is currently distant but civil, I no longer speak to the freak.

The reason why I’m telling you this is that if you live with someone who has a personality disorder, you and your children will be destroyed by it. Please forgive the posters here who have not responded charitably. People who have not experienced this have no clue what it is like. I do understand, truly.

I hate to see families fall apart, but what you have described is far from normal. God doesn’t want people to be destroyed like that. You need to think about your sanity and about your sons.

Praying for you.

Thank you for this wise and good post to MadameButterfly. Oh, dear, people who have not been in her shoes do say some very wrong things, and they don’t know they are rubbing salt on raw wounds.

Dearest MadameButterfly, you do need to keep on with counseling and with support groups for those who know how to live with someone who has such disorders, who understand the whole different world that it is. Perhaps you have not been so good at making strong boundaries, in your endeavor to be charitable and have what peace you can manage? If that’s the case it would “help” your husband be his worst person! “Making boundaries” would be good to inquire about at your support group.

At any rate, this is a serious problem and a lot of learning is required. I am not recommending divorce (only your therapists and a priest should be one to do that) but, you should know that that this is a common ground that is allowed for annulment - which is, if he had the disorder at the time of the vows even if, as is often the case, he and/or you were unaware, and the disorder made him unable to keep the vows he made.

I was married to a Narcissist Personality Disorder and we too had a “seemingly normal” marriage but in actuality it was much like the rest of what you wrote in your original posts here - not the same details, but, like yours, a HIGHLY DYSFUNCTIONAL life. Wearing you down and your children - the vulnerable ones. I feel quite sure that priests who hear what you have shared here about your married life would say the same as what all the priests said to me when they heard about mine: "That’s not a marriage!"

As to staying in it, you should know what you are up against, and seek God’s will to know if such an impossible situation is one He wants you to stay in. And if you feel called to, it will certainly take a very close walk with Him. I think also some respite may be in order, however you can arrange that, as you don’t want to abandon your teen sons. For me, at a key point, a long weekend silent retreat with some priestly council at a monastery brought deep understanding and a big infusion of sustaining grace.

 

[Zzyzx_Road]

What I found in my experience with personality disorders like OCD, BPD, paranoia, etc., is that one has absolutely no chance of changing the other person’s behavior if that person isn’t willing to acknowledge any problems. Even when you set boundaries, they can be routinely violated. You can only work on yourself, that is it. I’ve had to give up and walk away so I feel for those like the OP who are living in it and cannot leave so easily.

 

[Eliza10]

What I found in my experience with personality disorders like OCD, BPD, paranoia, etc., is that one has absolutely no chance of changing the other person’s behavior if that person isn’t willing to acknowledge any problems.** Even when you set boundaries, they can be routinely violated.** You can only work on yourself, that is it. I’ve had to give up and walk away so I feel for those like the OP who are living in it and cannot leave so easily.

Ah, so you know. I wondered if possibly “boundary work” would not work the same on Personality-Disordered persons as it does on just us regular-disordered folk! So I was thinking - likely not. Probably the key for success is, as you say, the person has to be willing to acknowledge a problem. My NPD ex certainly wasn’t going to do that - he was “fine!”. But I do not think that its just stubbornness, or a character deficiency, I think the deep inner wound that caused the disorder in the first place is too frightening to face, more frightening than we can imagine, and they need our sympathy (and prayer!). Even as we step out of their way, if need be. Because it cannot be good to support their abusive actions, even if what drives them to be that way is understandable.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

What I found in my experience with personality disorders like OCD, BPD, paranoia, etc., is that one has absolutely no chance of changing the other person’s behavior if that person isn’t willing to acknowledge any problems. Even when you set boundaries, they can be routinely violated. You can only work on yourself, that is it. I’ve had to give up and walk away so I feel for those like the OP who are living in it and cannot leave so easily.

But I do not think that its just stubbornness, or a character deficiency, I think the deep inner wound that caused the disorder in the first place is too frightening to face, more frightening than we can imagine, and they need our sympathy (and prayer!). Even as we step out of their way, if need be. Because it cannot be good to support their abusive actions, even if what drives them to be that way is understandable.

Great points here.

A person with a personality disorder always violates boundaries, they mean absolutely nothing. I know that I tried and tried with my dad but in the end had to walk away because I simply couldn’t handle it anymore. At that point I had children and my family life was affected. (For example, every opportunity he had he used to humiliate my husband in public. There was no reason for that - just the way he behaves. Family members have simply accepted it and have always justified it and blamed the victims. There were many other things as well, mainly aimed at me. I knew that my children would eventually become a target too, so I fled.)

I agree that the wound that caused it must be so deep and frightening. I have an idea of what happened to my dad and I can understand completely whey he developed the way he did. I do pray for him and hope that he will be whole and healed again in the next life. I think this is the best I can do in the circumstances.