When your spouse suffers from a mental disease--an additional question

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Ophelia23

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Hi friends. As some may know from a previous post, my husband is really struggling and grappling with a deep depression that is harming our relationship and our family. I am happy to report that he has finally agreed to address the issue with a Catholic therapist, because it has gotten much worse as of late. He sees him tomorrow. I am also actively seeking a support source as well to aid me with some of the complications and struggles that I am having. I will be meeting with someone middle of next week.

I received some great support and advice on my previous thread last week. I come back with an additional question, not to air our dirty laundry or even to talk through my grievances, but there were several posters who understood our struggles because they themselves have been the depressed.

During a particularly bad episode last Friday, several deeply hurtful things were said by my husband. These things were said and cut so deep in my heart. Days later, I am still feeling hurt and stripped away by them. I know that I am not over-reacting. I know (think) that he likely regrets what he said. I tried to gently bring it up on Saturday, to tell him that it really hurt my feelings, but he said it was unfair of me to hold a grudge. I am not holding a grudge, I am just trying to work through the hurt that was caused.

My question is this. When you were suffering from depression and you hurt someone you loved,** was there a good approach that could be taken to addressing the issue? Or is it better for the spouse to take it inwardly and work through it on their own?** I sound so melodramatic and I don’t intend to. I just feel cut down and stranded. I have never felt smaller or lesser than I felt after the things he said. I am not angry with him, just hurt by him and I feel like I make matters worse by trying to talk it through with him. I keep thinking about calling my mom to talk things through, but I always decide against it because I don’t want to shape her view of my husband in any way. She knows we are struggling, but I try to avoid specifics. She actually went on a week-long silent retreat to Mary Grove for us this week, so I couldn’t call her anyway. 🙂
 
Praying to St. Dymphna for your husband’s health & recovery. Praying for your intentions as well.
 
I don’t have any really great advice, as I was, like you, the one married to a depressed person, but I do know that when in the midst of a major depressive episode, people are often not rational. They rationalize their behavior in ways that would otherwise be unthinkable to them in order to self-protect and later, once the disease has been treated, they are often mortified by some of the things they have done and said.

That doesn’t make it any easier for you now, I know. I wouldn’t do so now, in the midst of what sounds like an acute episode, but have you considered Retrouvaille? Even though we had already “dealt with” my husband’s depression at that point, Retrouvaille was really the turning point to making our marriage whole again, or rather for the first time. It gave us indispensable tools for talking about exactly the same kinds of hurts you’ve experienced, in a non-threatening way that allowed my husband to be open. I will continue to pray for both of you and your children.
 
I would suggest you obtain a therapist for yourself to discuss the difficulties you are having with your spouse. You need emotional support for your own struggles.

I commend you for not telling your Mom.
 
This may help you understand your husband and his illness which are two separate things: sometimes the disease does all the talking and you have to detach and tell yourself that he wouldn’t say those things on his own. When the disease does the talking it hurts both you and your spouse because whether or not he admits, he is at the mercy of his disease and cannot respond in a normal fashion. He is helpless to stop himself sometimes. This is called a diminished capacity and it renders the sins committed less than they would be for someone who has a full capacity. He is hurting from his inability to gain control over his disease. He will get better with treatment but the full cycle of the disease could take years to spend itself. This is the for better or worse stuff and makes our bond stronger or weaker, depending on our own choices. Do not listen to the culture that says dump him because he’s deficient. He loves you but his disease prevents him from acting in ways that are loving and consumes most of his thoughts. He would behave normally if he could but just like with any other disease, he hasn’t a choice in the course it takes other than to seek treatment and do what little he can. If it is true clinical depression it will remain a part of who he is for the rest of his life. You and he can adapt and experience a full and meaningful life, but it will be one that has triumphed over depression, not a normal one. This is the true Cross. It can be your salvation.

I will keep you both in my prayers. Please try not to be hurt by the things he says and keep in mind it is a disease talking and not really your husband.

Glenda
 
As someone who has struggled with severe mental illness myself: It is very likely that your husband didn’t mean what he said to you. HOWEVER, he is still responsible for his own actions. Please do not tell yourself that you have to accept poor treatment because he is depressed. This allows him to continue down the same path and, in the long term, may hinder his recovery.

You seem like a very kind and loving wife. Continue to be kind and loving. But do not discount your own wellbeing and fail to hold your husband accountable.

Best wishes. You will both be in my prayers.
 
Words hurt, period. It doesn’t matter what is behind them, what is said to us is often almost impossible to forget. My husband has said cruel and unforgettable things to me over the years but somehow I have always put it behind me and God has helped me move past. In your case since your husband will begin seeing a therapist I wold urge you to wait a while before you try to tackle this again. In the course of his treatment you may be asked to attend some of it and then have your chance to broach the subject within the counseling situation. For now, try to treat this as someone who is ill and that the outburst was a manifestation of the illness and put it behind you. I will pray for you to be able to move forward without hurt.

Memorare

REMEMBER, O most gracious Virgin Mary, that never was it known that anyone who fled to thy protection, implored thy help, or sought thy intercession was left unaided. Inspired with this confidence, I fly to thee, O Virgin of virgins, my Mother; to thee do I come; before thee I stand, sinful and sorrowful. O Mother of the Word Incarnate, despise not my petitions, but in thy mercy hear and answer me. Amen.
 
glendab said:
This may help you understand your husband and his illness which are two separate things: sometimes the disease does all the talking and you have to detach and tell yourself that he wouldn’t say those things on his own. When the disease does the talking it hurts both you and your spouse because whether or not he admits, he is at the mercy of his disease and cannot respond in a normal fashion. He is helpless to stop himself sometimes. This is called a diminished capacity and it renders the sins committed less than they would be for someone who has a full capacity. He is hurting from his inability to gain control over his disease. He will get better with treatment but the full cycle of the disease could take years to spend itself. This is the for better or worse stuff and makes our bond stronger or weaker, depending on our own choices. Do not listen to the culture that says dump him because he’s deficient. He loves you but his disease prevents him from acting in ways that are loving and consumes most of his thoughts. He would behave normally if he could but just like with any other disease, he hasn’t a choice in the course it takes other than to seek treatment and do what little he can. If it is true clinical depression it will remain a part of who he is for the rest of his life. You and he can adapt and experience a full and meaningful life, but it will be one that has triumphed over depression, not a normal one. This is the true Cross. It can be your salvation.

I will keep you both in my prayers. Please try not to be hurt by the things he says and keep in mind it is a disease talking and not really your husband.

Glenda
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I think this us an excellent post. Since he is now going to get help, now is really the time for you to have patience. You made it this far, think his much better it will be after treatment. 🙂

In addition, I would hold off on discussing how hurt you are. If the depression is talking, he most likely was speaking from that, and not from something he really felt. He may have just wanted you to feel as poorly as he now does. Maybe some time down the road you can tell him that you know it was the depression speaking, but it hurt you nonetheless.
 
Ophelia23 said:

“During a particularly bad episode last Friday, several deeply hurtful things were said by my husband. These things were said and cut so deep in my heart. Days later, I am still feeling hurt and stripped away by them. I know that I am not over-reacting. I know (think) that he likely regrets what he said. I tried to gently bring it up on Saturday, to tell him that it really hurt my feelings, but he said it was unfair of me to hold a grudge. I am not holding a grudge, I am just trying to work through the hurt that was caused.”

I don’t know what the correct timing should be (other people will be more knowledgeable), but yes, simply as a matter of justice and in order to fully reconcile with you, your husband eventually needs to apologize to you for what he has done. And it’s not good enough for the perpetrator to say, “I’m sorry,” he’s going to need to say, “I’m sorry I did ABC, and I know it was wrong because XYZ,” so that you both understand what he is apologizing for and endeavoring not to do again.

If he were hitting you, it would be perfectly fair to bring it up later. It wouldn’t be “holding a grudge.” And it sounds like what he’s saying is hurting you just as much as if he were hitting you–he’s giving you the emotional equivalent of a black eye. Make sure he understands that–maybe not now, but eventually. You may need to eventually explicitly say, “You are being emotionally abusive.” But I’m not sure what the right timing is for saying that.

“I just feel cut down and stranded. I have never felt smaller or lesser than I felt after the things he said. I am not angry with him, just hurt by him and I feel like I make matters worse by trying to talk it through with him. I keep thinking about calling my mom to talk things through, but I always decide against it because I don’t want to shape her view of my husband in any way. She knows we are struggling, but I try to avoid specifics. She actually went on a week-long silent retreat to Mary Grove for us this week, so I couldn’t call her anyway.”

As people have said, you need support, but it needs to be somebody who isn’t your mom and who doesn’t have a social relationship with your husband.

And good for you resisting the urge to confide too much to your mom.

Best wishes!
Best wishes!
 
I know you mentioned that the two of you are seeing individual counselors at seperate times but have you considered seeing a marriage counselor as well?
Maybe a trusted priest you could both sit down with in addition to the the other therapy.

My thought would be that the two of you could be on the same page when it comes to his depression and how to communicate through it. It sounds like you two aren’t communicating very well right now.

Yes, he does need to apologize for saying these hurtful things. If you bring it up again in the next day or so, maybe you should stress that these words really hurt you and you are having a difficult time coming to terms with what he said. Maybe bring up the possibility of marriage counseling then if he still won’t budge and claim you are holding a grudge.
 
SayehMahtabi said:
As someone who has struggled with severe mental illness myself: It is very likely that your husband didn’t mean what he said to you. HOWEVER, he is still responsible for his own actions. Please do not tell yourself that you have to accept poor treatment because he is depressed. This allows him to continue down the same path and, in the long term, may hinder his recovery.

You seem like a very kind and loving wife. Continue to be kind and loving. But do not discount your own wellbeing and fail to hold your husband accountable.

Best wishes. You will both be in my prayers.
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Agree totally. Yes, he is ill.

Tolerating abuse from him enables his choices AND his illness.

You do not have to be demeaned and cut down in your own home, even if it is in part due to your husband’s illness.

So when he starts in on berating you, walk away. Just don’t listen. Walk into another room, walk out the car, grab your kids and take them to Target or the park. Come back in an hour or two. Just. Don’t. Listen. Don’t let yourself be drawn into the situation. Say, “It seems like your illness is flaring now, so I’m going to head out. I hope you’ll be feeling better when I get back.” Keep calm and don’t take it.

As long as he continues to play an active role in his treatment, you might have to do this. If he stops treatment or does not FULLY comply with his doctor’s recommendations, prescriptions, appointments, homework, etc. - then you have to think about something else. You cannot help ANYONE who does not want to help themselves.

As far as your mom goes - I appreciate that you don’t want her to “know” how your husband is really treating you. You don’t want her to get upset and worried, or think poorly of him. There does come a time when you need in-person support. If your mom can be that person for you, you might need to tell her (especially if there is a chance you will need to flee to her at some point.) Otherwise, find a therapist ASAP so that there is someone who knows what it going on. This is too big a burden for you to bear alone.
 
See if the therapist he will be working with would be willing to also do couples counseling with the two of you at an appropriate time. Once your husband gets “stable,” it might be wise to do this. That way you can come to a safe environment and say how much hurt he has caused you.

I know that my own mental problems have had bad effects over the years. Many haven’t understood because they didn’t understand, or perhaps know of, my problems. I do try to speak openly about it because I believe that there shouldn’t be a stigma to this. Yes, I have problems, yes I’m on meds and yes, I’m in counseling. But I’m far away from being cured. Right now I’m just working on being better. I am more aware of my stuff, and I do try to “behave” (as my daughter would say). Poor kid. This month is her fourth wedding anniversary, and she was so worried about how I would act at her wedding. I managed to not have any outbursts, so it was an ok event. Seeing the pictures, I look so serious. I was really trying to hold it together because I wanted to BE there for her, and not just in the physical sense. This sort of thing does take work, but it’s a long road. Be patient but bold. If he gets out of line, please tell him when he hurts you. If he doesn’t want to listen to you, contact his counselor. Between the three of you, it should get to the point where the depression isn’t so consuming.
 
Thanks again for the encouragement and advice, everyone. I do agree that he needs to eventually make amends, but I have come to the conclusion that now is not the time to push for it. The last thing I want to do is rock the boat when he is just about to begin getting help, nor do I want to rock the boat when he is new to the therapy setting either. I think that for now, I need to just swallow it and set it aside and love him. I’m feeling more ready to do that today. Time does help things an awful lot. It doesn’t erase, but it helps to separate.

Avacadomom, thank you again. I can see how I got engaged in this episode and how he really fed off of my pain. It was hurtful and awful, and it would have gone so much more smoothly had I simply said, “That was uncalled for. I am going to go and let you calm down for a bit.” then the outcome would have been so different. I think that when I am looking at the situation here logically and rationally, that sounds so easy. In the moment, it isn’t nearly so easy because of the feeling of attack. But I also think that if I have it in my head as a plan for next time, I will be more prone to act upon it. I feel better equipped.

My prayers are always with you all here, and I am so thankful for the prayers that are offered for me as well. God is love. Peace be with us all.
 
Ophelia23,

That all sounds very wise and reasonable.

Best wishes!
 
My wife has boarder-line personality disorder. In lay-mans terms its like multiple personality except the persons that divide her are not so solid that they have their own names or memories as much as you notice its like extreme mood swings.
Code: 
Extreme reactions—including panic, depression, rage, or frantic actions—to abandonment, whether real or perceived.
A pattern of intense and stormy relationships with family, friends, and loved ones, often veering from extreme closeness and love (idealization) to extreme dislike or anger (devaluation).
Distorted and unstable self-image or sense of self, which can result in sudden changes in feelings, opinions, values, or plans and goals for the future (such as school or career choices).
Impulsive and often dangerous behaviors, such as spending sprees, unsafe sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, and binge eating
Recurring suicidal behaviors or threats or self-harming behavior, such as cutting
Intense and highly changeable moods, with each episode lasting from a few hours to a few days
Chronic feelings of emptiness and/or boredom
Inappropriate, intense anger or problems controlling anger
Having stress-related paranoid thoughts or severe dissociative symptoms, such as feeling cut off from oneself, observing oneself from outside the body, or losing touch with reality.
Things as simple as me while laying in bed turning over so my back is facing her or leaving the room mid conversation for something like taking the water off the burner, or some fell (even if shes aware thats why I left or not) even if I return in short order it causes her to have a break down.

Its a very heavy cross but I married her because when shes not suffering from an episode she is such a wonderful happy lady you just want to hug and hold. I know I kinda am a sucker for punishment but I don’t care. I have my own demons to face and I can’t judge her, I can only ask her to work with me to get better.

Just tell your spouse as long as there is effort there is hope. People talk about love all the time and love is the greatest virtue but hope isn’t that far behind. :cool:
 
-sit down with him, directly across from him

-Look him straight in the eyes

-Hold his hand

-Tell him you love him

-Gently and lovingly explain to him what exactly you were hurt by and why it hurt you

-Reassure him that you know that this isn’t his fault and that you are completely committed to his road to recovery

-Give him a hug and and kiss and tell him you love him again

Yes I’ve battled depression too and am speaking from experience
 
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