When's a good time to start dating?

[Mrvinc]

I just hate to see your hypothetical future car eat your life like that.

We have three kids, two paid-for cars (a 2004 Ford Taurus and a 2011 Kia Sedona) and we spend $48 a month for insurance total, about $180-200 for gas, and budget around $80 every month for future repairs (although that isn’t always quite enough). So, about $330 a month in transportation costs for two cars? When we start saving for our next vehicle, we’ll start saving probably an additional $200 a month.

It’s true that we have a lot of other expenses for the family, but I read your proposed car budget and it’s just painful to even think about. Even if it’s 100% paid for, it’s going to own you.

(And by the way, I really recommend doing a repair fund for your future car. $80 a month is a good number, although you may need more depending what you buy.)

Sure you may pay $48 for insurance but I’d still imagine it’d be expensive for just a regular car for me since I’m a new driver. I ask my uncle and he says most of the kids he insures get in a car crash, and recently a 17 yr old without insurance crashed into his new car… Sure my choice may not be convenient but it’s what I want and this is one of the biggest purchases in life and this is how I want it to be. I think the reason I’d like to have a nice car is because my dad tells me that his family was in tough situations (family of 10) and he bought a beat up car and fixed it up. My mom pretty much did the same thing but just bought a beat up car and drove it like that. I don’t want to remember that I had a beat up car due to being in a tough situation as I’m not and my parents aren’t. I think you get the point.

 

[phillylawyer]

The key is maturity, and that is not measured in years.

First, are you ready to be married? If not, why date? For fun? Then go out in groups, but not on one-on-one dates. There is MUCH risk in dating and little to be gained that is of value when you are young.

And btw, I’m a dad, and my daughter is 19 now. She did the group thing until she was 18.

Here is the order of life:

Graduate from high school.
Go to college (if you can and it makes sense).
Get a good job.
Get married.
Have kids.

Don’t try to do any of those steps out of order.

I would quibble that “get a good job” does not necessarily have to come before the final two steps. There are a lot of happy successful marriages that started when the couple was still in college or grad school. Particularly in this economy, if you have to wait until you get a good job to get married, some young people may be delaying it a long time.

 

[robwar]

Yes I can agree that I don’t have the ability to go out without my parents freaking out, but with my current plan I’ll have my own car at 16 and a half and I’ll be paying for everything except insurance (more independent). Also for money I plan to get a job as soon as I turn 16 so I’ll have some money left over after paying different thinks and saving…

Car insurance for a 16 year old is very high. Whatever job you think you are going to get is 1. going to be part time and 2. not going to pay for much at minimum wage at best.
3. having a car also mean paying for gas, maintenance etc and if your parents are smart, they would buy a used car for a 16 year old, not a new one.
I have two boys, 20 and 17 and am on my 3rd car with them. You have nice big plans but with school and then maybe part time work, I’m not sure where you will have time for a girlfriend at best. Some State laws have graduated licences and restrictions at your age. focus on school, maybe a part time weekend job and don’t worry about the rest.

 

[robwar]

Sure you may pay $48 for insurance but I’d still imagine it’d be expensive for just a regular car for me since I’m a new driver. I ask my uncle and he says most of the kids he insures get in a car crash, and recently a 17 yr old without insurance crashed into his new car… Sure my choice may not be convenient but it’s what I want and this is one of the biggest purchases in life and this is how I want it to be. I think the reason I’d like to have a nice car is because my dad tells me that his family was in tough situations (family of 10) and he bought a beat up car and fixed it up. My mom pretty much did the same thing but just bought a beat up car and drove it like that. I don’t want to remember that I had a beat up car due to being in a tough situation as I’m not and my parents aren’t. I think you get the point.

You have no clue about cars. a used car is perfect for your age and most all new drivers make mistakes with them. Insurance is very high at your age.

 

[Xantippe]

Sure you may pay $48 for insurance but I’d still imagine it’d be expensive for just a regular car for me since I’m a new driver. I ask my uncle and he says most of the kids he insures get in a car crash, and recently a 17 yr old without insurance crashed into his new car… Sure my choice may not be convenient but it’s what I want and this is one of the biggest purchases in life and this is how I want it to be. I think the reason I’d like to have a nice car is because my dad tells me that his family was in tough situations (family of 10) and he bought a beat up car and fixed it up. My mom pretty much did the same thing but just bought a beat up car and drove it like that. I don’t want to remember that I had a beat up car due to being in a tough situation as I’m not and my parents aren’t. I think you get the point.

Yeah, we have cheap insurance because we’re boring middle aged people.

Nonetheless, consider not doing this, at least not right away. Spending 70% of your earnings on a car is an awful financial choice. 10 years from now when you have a wife and a kid or two, you’ll hate yourself for the choices you’re making now. You don’t want to work yourself to death to pay for a car that you need so you can drive yourself to work and work yourself to death–that’s craziness.

Please do pick up a personal finance book or two and think carefully about how your future self is going to feel about this. My husband and I didn’t get our first car until we were 32 and 34 and had two kids, and it didn’t kill us.

 

[Xantippe]

Car insurance for a 16 year old is very high. Whatever job you think you are going to get is 1. going to be part time and 2. not going to pay for much at minimum wage at best.
3. having a car also mean paying for gas, maintenance etc and if your parents are smart, they would buy a used car for a 16 year old, not a new one.
I have two boys, 20 and 17 and am on my 3rd car with them. You have nice big plans but with school and then maybe part time work, I’m not sure where you will have time for a girlfriend at best. Some State laws have graduated licences and restrictions at your age. focus on school, maybe a part time weekend job and don’t worry about the rest.

Yes.

One of our two cars is worth about $1,500 (the other one is worth about $11k). We are 39 and 41, have three kids, an upper middle class income, no debt at all, and a reasonable level of savings. A $1,500-$5,000 car is perfect for a young driver, particularly if the young driver has adequate savings to deal with repairs. I would not dream of putting my kids in a car that costs more than $5k unless our income were twice as big. (I was once with my teenage sister when she put a three foot long scrape on the side of my dad’s truck while backing out of a parking space–it was spectacular.)

Nice cars are for truly rich people.

 

[Xantippe]

One more thing–Dave Ramsey says that the value of your cars should not exceed 50% of your household income. So if you make $10k a year, it shouldn’t be more than a $5k car, if you make $20k a year, it should not be more than $10k, etc.

(Obviously, if you make a million a year, you shouldn’t own $500k in cars, but I think it’s a good rule at lower income levels.)

DR also says that you shouldn’t own a new car until you have one million dollars in assets. (I suspect he’d probably OK a $20k new car for a person with a lower net worth, though.)

The issue is that cars are continually losing value, and the newer they are, the faster they’re losing value. As DR also says, a newer car for a young, broke person is like driving down the highway tossing $100 bills out the window.

 

[robwar]

Yes.

One of our two cars is worth about $1,500 (the other one is worth about $11k). We are 39 and 41, have three kids, an upper middle class income, no debt at all, and a reasonable level of savings. A $1,500-$5,000 car is perfect for a young driver, particularly if the young driver has adequate savings to deal with repairs. I would not dream of putting my kids in a car that costs more than $5k unless our income were twice as big. (I was once with my teenage sister when she put a three foot long scrape on the side of my dad’s truck while backing out of a parking space–it was spectacular.)

Nice cars are for truly rich people.

Trust me, my husband and I looked for a $1000 used car when our oldest was able to drive. Glad we did because he totalled it in a head on collison after about one year. Thankfully he, his brother and the other driver was not hurt which is the most important part anyway. The second car was another $1000 deal and while driving, some hose split, the car over heated and ruined the engine. The third car now has some dents and dings in it and it was swiped while parked. Has a dent in it but not worth fixing. This is why you put your new drivers in cars that you can tolerate dents and dings and if totalled, it isn’t a major loss. Not sure what insurances OP has even looked at but 6 month insurace for my 20 year old is over $1500 and that is going to be much higher for a new 16 year old besides that and this is with Progressive.

 

[pensmama87]

Yes.

One of our two cars is worth about $1,500 (the other one is worth about $11k). We are 39 and 41, have three kids, an upper middle class income, no debt at all, and a reasonable level of savings. A $1,500-$5,000 car is perfect for a young driver, particularly if the young driver has adequate savings to deal with repairs. I would not dream of putting my kids in a car that costs more than $5k unless our income were twice as big. (I was once with my teenage sister when she put a three foot long scrape on the side of my dad’s truck while backing out of a parking space–it was spectacular.)

Nice cars are for truly rich people.

Our insurance is about double yours, but I think that’s a feature of us being in our 20s and where we live (so I’m looking forward to the thought that it might go down further!) My first car (10 years ago) was used - my parents did buy it for me, which was generous, but it was in good shape for its age and I drove it another five or six years. I missed it terribly when it needed a repair I couldn’t afford and then had to junk it after leaving it out all winter with no driving.

OP: It’s also worth shopping around for insurance, especially with companies that offer discounts. I may have missed this in the thread, but I think my insurance cost less because I was still on my parents’ policy even though I was the primary driver of my car, I had discounts for being a good student, having completed a driver’s ed program, and then of course it continued to go down the longer I went without an accident. The fact that I wasn’t driving a flashy car helped too.

Unfortunately I think no matter how innately intelligent a person is this is the kind of lesson you have to learn by experience, but I cringed when I read the following:

“I think the reason I’d like to have a nice car is because my dad tells me that his family was in tough situations (family of 10) and he bought a beat up car and fixed it up. My mom pretty much did the same thing but just bought a beat up car and drove it like that. I don’t want to remember that I had a beat up car due to being in a tough situation as I’m not and my parents aren’t. I think you get the point.”

Since you’re not in a tough situation, instead you’re likely to remember you made a wise financial choice, and chose to put off foolish spending so it wouldn’t come back to bite you later. I incurred a serious chunk of debt paying for my education, and I kick myself every now and then because if I had been a little bit more frugal when I was single, or even before I had kids, I would likely have most of them paid off by now, and wouldn’t have to feed my kids rice and beans almost every night while I try to figure out how to slash our expenses and increase our income so the debt will be paid off before my kids get to middle school (because I’d REALLY like them to avoid the same mess I ended up in). In my case it wasn’t “big stuff,” but I didn’t need to go out to the bars a few times a week, or out to eat, or buy groceries at the fancy shops because I felt like I was too good to shop at a discount store. I didn’t realize it at the time, but I suffered from an entitlement mentality BIG time. It didn’t manifest itself in obvious ways because I wasn’t into designer clothes or fancy cars, but it was definitely still present. Now I wish I’d been wiser for my kids’ sake, but hope that what I’ve learned will pass on to them a little bit - maybe they’ll learn sooner than I did.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

So here we’ve got a 16 year old boy and a bunch of people telling him not to be interested in pretty girls or nice cars.

Yeah, good luck with that.

 

[pensmama87]

So here we’ve got a 16 year old boy and a bunch of people telling him not to be interested in pretty girls or nice cars.

Yeah, good luck with that.

“Get to know girls and spend time with them without the pressure of one-on-one dating” and “don’t buy an expensive car right now” is not “don’t be interested in pretty girls or nice cars.”

I knew several guys his age when I was a teen and when I was a high school teacher who LOVED nice cars, but couldn’t afford them (most people can’t), so they tinkered around with older models, read car magazines, etc.

 

[Xantippe]

:

Since you’re not in a tough situation, instead you’re likely to remember you made a wise financial choice, and chose to put off foolish spending so it wouldn’t come back to bite you later.

Yeah. It’s always possible to create a tough situation.

I incurred a serious chunk of debt paying for my education, and I kick myself every now and then because if I had been a little bit more frugal when I was single, or even before I had kids, I would likely have most of them paid off by now, and wouldn’t have to feed my kids rice and beans almost every night while I try to figure out how to slash our expenses and increase our income so the debt will be paid off before my kids get to middle school (because I’d REALLY like them to avoid the same mess I ended up in). In my case it wasn’t “big stuff,” but I didn’t need to go out to the bars a few times a week, or out to eat, or buy groceries at the fancy shops because I felt like I was too good to shop at a discount store. I didn’t realize it at the time, but I suffered from an entitlement mentality BIG time. It didn’t manifest itself in obvious ways because I wasn’t into designer clothes or fancy cars, but it was definitely still present. Now I wish I’d been wiser for my kids’ sake, but hope that what I’ve learned will pass on to them a little bit - maybe they’ll learn sooner than I did.

Yes.

A lot of stuff that doesn’t seem like a big will be a big deal once the OP has a wife and kids. Today’s luxury quickly contributes to tomorrow’s poverty. And believe you me, it’s much easier to suffer through having a cheap car or no car in one’s teens than to suffer seemingless endless privation as a young parent. Bad financial choices now could easily jeopardize your future marriage, not to mention limit your ability to have a larger family or your ability to have a SAHM wife. There’s also the issue of your schooling. Until you are safely through school and making a good income, any large purchase needs to be regarded with a lot of suspicion.

To do the math on cars for the OP, we bought a modest $11k car 7+ years ago. Thanks to the magic of depreciation, it has lost probably $9500 in value over those 7 years. I just did the math, and our current $1500 car (i.e. the former $11k car) lost $107 in value every month over the time we have owned it. (I think it’s finally stopped losing value for the moment, thank goodness.) Because of where we live now, we didn’t really have a choice about car ownership anymore, and we made reasonable choices for our income, but every time I used to check Craigslist and see how much value our car had lost, it was pretty painful, let me tell you.

 

[Xantippe]

“Get to know girls and spend time with them without the pressure of one-on-one dating” and “don’t buy an expensive car right now” is not “don’t be interested in pretty girls or nice cars.”

I knew several guys his age when I was a teen and when I was a high school teacher who LOVED nice cars, but couldn’t afford them (most people can’t), so they tinkered around with older models, read car magazines, etc.

Exactly. Especially since if the car is expensive enough, it could easily destroy the OP’s ability to spend any time socially with pretty girls.

The other thing is that high school age dating is WEIRD. Those relationships usually have roughly the lifespan of fruit flies, so it’s a lot of suffering and drama for nothing.

There’s a good piece here where the author talks about a reasonable model for traditional dating:

thomasumstattd.com/2014/08/courtship-fundamentally-flawed/

The key is not glomming onto particular individuals right away, but taking out a number of different people, getting to know them, and having a good time before going steady.

 

[Mrvinc]

You have no clue about cars. a used car is perfect for your age and most all new drivers make mistakes with them. Insurance is very high at your age.

Yes, my plan is for a used car for about $4k-$5k I know most drivers make mistakes since my uncle told me he hates insuring kids because they’ll probably get in an accident… but he lives in a over populated city, I don’t live in a over populated city… I have to drive about 10 miles to reach my school, and about 8 to go the the store, I won’t even see many cars until I’m almost there… So there’s a smaller chance… Also I’m not going to get it right as I turn 16 I’ll have to work for it and that’ll be when I’m 16 1/2+ All depends on how many hours and stuff.

 

[Mrvinc]

Car insurance for a 16 year old is very high. Whatever job you think you are going to get is 1. going to be part time and 2. not going to pay for much at minimum wage at best.
3. having a car also mean paying for gas, maintenance etc and if your parents are smart, they would buy a used car for a 16 year old, not a new one.
I have two boys, 20 and 17 and am on my 3rd car with them. You have nice big plans but with school and then maybe part time work, I’m not sure where you will have time for a girlfriend at best. Some State laws have graduated licences and restrictions at your age. focus on school, maybe a part time weekend job and don’t worry about the rest.

My numbers are based off of paying minimum wage and part time. I’m going based off the least I can get…

 

[Mrvinc]

You have no clue about cars. a used car is perfect for your age and most all new drivers make mistakes with them. Insurance is very high at your age.

Yes, my plan is to get a used car except not beat up like most people’s first car.

 

[Mrvinc]

OP: It’s also worth shopping around for insurance, especially with companies that offer discounts. I may have missed this in the thread, but I think my insurance cost less because I was still on my parents’ policy even though I was the primary driver of my car, I had discounts for being a good student, having completed a driver’s ed program, and then of course it continued to go down the longer I went without an accident. The fact that I wasn’t driving a flashy car helped too.

Unfortunately I think no matter how innately intelligent a person is this is the kind of lesson you have to learn by experience, but I cringed when I read the following:

Since you’re not in a tough situation, instead you’re likely to remember you made a wise financial choice, and chose to put off foolish spending so it wouldn’t come back to bite you later. I incurred a serious chunk of debt paying for my education, and I kick myself every now and then because if I had been a little bit more frugal when I was single, or even before I had kids, I would likely have most of them paid off by now, and wouldn’t have to feed my kids rice and beans almost every night while I try to figure out how to slash our expenses and increase our income so the debt will be paid off before my kids get to middle school (because I’d REALLY like them to avoid the same mess I ended up in). In my case it wasn’t “big stuff,” but I didn’t need to go out to the bars a few times a week, or out to eat, or buy groceries at the fancy shops because I felt like I was too good to shop at a discount store. I didn’t realize it at the time, but I suffered from an entitlement mentality BIG time. It didn’t manifest itself in obvious ways because I wasn’t into designer clothes or fancy cars, but it was definitely still present. Now I wish I’d been wiser for my kids’ sake, but hope that what I’ve learned will pass on to them a little bit - maybe they’ll learn sooner than I did.

Yea, my uncle will do a price match with other insurances so I don’t think it’ll be hard to find a good insurance. My dad also had a huge student loan because he decided to get different degrees and didn’t like what he did so he went back to school 2 times and my mom had to help a lot to pay it off. I already calculated and what I want to do and I should be in trouble with money because I don’t plan on going to a fancy school and I can live with my grandparents to save on rent and costs… Also I have money to save with the money I make with the little websites I make and merchandise I sell, pretty much most of that money is saved and reinvested.

 

[Xantippe]

Yes, my plan is for a used car for about $4k-$5k I know most drivers make mistakes since my uncle told me he hates insuring kids because they’ll probably get in an accident… but he lives in a over populated city, I don’t live in a over populated city… I have to drive about 10 miles to reach my school, and about 8 to go the the store, I won’t even see many cars until I’m almost there… So there’s a smaller chance… Also I’m not going to get it right as I turn 16 I’ll have to work for it and that’ll be when I’m 16 1/2+ All depends on how many hours and stuff.

That’s a good price range.

Rural driving is really dangerous, though, particularly for young drivers.

 

[robwar]

So here we’ve got a 16 year old boy and a bunch of people telling him not to be interested in pretty girls or nice cars.

Yeah, good luck with that.

no one said not to be interested in girls. I suggested trust trying to be friends which is the basis for marriage anyway. No one said he shouldn’t want a car, but realistically, how is a 16 year really going to afford that on some part time minimal wage job. Does it really help someone to feed into pipe dreams and unrealistic expectations or does it help them if point to reality which is not to be wrapped up in “finding a steady girlfriend” and expect to drive a nice new car at age 16 (especially if his parents can’t afford it)?