Where am I wrong?

[PJM]

There is another thread that asked “when did the CC go wrong?”

Th Only agreement seems to be that “They [WE] did and RE wrong!.” With no plurality of agreement as to when, where, or exactly why this happend.

From a Bible perspective, I hold the position that this possibility is literally IMPOSSIBLE.

Evidence:

**[1]. 2 Tim. 3:12-17 **“Indeed all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted, while evil men and impostors will go on from bad to worse, deceivers and deceived. But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings which are able to instruct you for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. **All scripture is inspired by God **and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.”

[2] John 14: 15-18 [15] "If you love me, you will keep my commandments. ** And I will pray the Father, and he will give you another Counselor, to be with you for ever**, [And as we know God cannot deny Himself to this is FACT]even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him; you know him, for he dwells with you, and will be in you.** "I will not leave you desolate; I will come to you.**

**[3] John 17: 14-19 ** I [GOD] have given them thy word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. I do not pray that thou shouldst take them out of the world, but that thou shouldst keep them from the evil one. [16] They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. ** Sanctify them in the truth; thy word is truth. As thou didst send me into the world, so I have sent them into the world. **[19] ***And for their sake I [GOD]consecrate myself, that they also may be consecrated in truth." ***

**[4] Acts.20:28 “**Take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church [SINGULAR] of God which he obtained with the blood of his own Son. “

**[5] Eph. 2:19 **So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, [SINGULAR] built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord; [SINGULAR] in whom you also are built into it for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.”

[6] Eph. 4: “There is one body [One Church] and one Spirit, [One set of beliefs] just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call, 5 one Lord, One Triune God] one faith, [One set of doctrine and dogma and Tradition] one baptism, [By water in the Trinity] 6 one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all. 7 But grace was given to each of us according to the measure of Christ’s gift."

So friends is the Bible wrong?

Was God wrong ? or

Am I wrong?

 

[down_under]

im afraid I do not understand the question entirely. Are you asking if the bible alone is enough to support faith. Are you asking if God left the church he founded.

what possibility is literally impossible. please define the issue in exact terms for new people to the current argument.

 

[Heteroclite]

[6] Eph. 4: “There is one body [One Church] and one Spirit, [One set of beliefs]… 5 one Lord, One Triune God] one faith, [One set of doctrine and dogma and Tradition]

Many Protestants would say that your interpretations here are RC (for example, “one Body” would to them simply mean “all the believers in Christ throughout the ages till He returns”; “one faith” would mean “one true gospel,” etc.)

There are a lot of extant threads on this topic (and even other threads that get derailed onto this topic); you might be able to pillage those for insight on your question.

 

[PJM]

=down under;6680275]im afraid I do not understand the question entirely. Are you asking if the bible alone is enough to support faith. Are you asking if God left the church he founded.

what possibility is literally impossible. please define the issue in exact terms for new people to the current argument.

Thanks for asking!

My points:

1. The Bible in its entireilty is either Completely true [BUT not necessarly factula] or it is of NO faith value. Can’t be both.
2. From this foundation:** 2 Tim. 3:16-17 **affirm the above position.
3. John 14: 16-17 and John 17: 14-19 provide clear and specific evidence that A. The Holy Spirtit was sent by God to guide and guard the Church from error… On all Matters of Faith and or Morals…“FOREVER.” B. Futher Christ Himself has commited to being surety for these same truths.
4. The consequences of the Eternal Presence of Both Jesus, and the HS, assures us that The Father is also present; so this silly notion that God left His Chuch is **A. Biblically Unproveable B.**Completely illogical C. False.

So I’ll ask again; where am I wrong?

THANKS FOR ASKING!

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Now IF what is termed the “RCC” had indeed gone off the rails somehow, wouldn’t one expect to find, at the very time this occurred, an ‘offshoot’ of that RCC which managed not to 'go astray?"

From what I understand, that would be a possible position for the Orthodox to claim (and for the Latin rite AKA RCC vice versa). IOW, one could see that both the RCC and the Orthodox are the “original” Church and that one of the two went astray (if only slightly and the ‘wandering’ can be easily corrected so to speak with a return of the ‘strayer’ to the ‘unstrayed.’

And to a lesser degree, one could see the Episcopal claim as being directly ‘from’ the RCC which they felt had ‘strayed’, or even the Lutheran. However, if either of these were truly the ‘unstrayed’, they should have remained ‘intact’ while the ‘straying’ RCC should have fragmented further and further. Surprisingly, though, it was the Episcopalians and the Lutherans et. al who went on to ‘fragment’ while the RCC stayed ‘intact’ doctrinally speaking.

The Episcopalian who felt his Church wasn’t quite right went on to become a Methodist, and later a non-denom.

The Catholic who felt his Church wasn’t quite right remained Catholic though perhaps for a time he wavered or was swayed by Jansenists, Feeneyites, etc. Still, the Jansenists did not ‘break’ from the RCC to form the Church of Jansen, while the brothers Wesley and their followers did indeed form the MEthodist Church from the Episcopal.

And while the Catholics have been rather persistent in holding out the olive branches, there is a lot of 'whore of babylon calling on the part of some (by no means all) Protestants.

Didn’t Jesus search for the lost sheep rather than ‘damn it?’ The actions of the Catholic Church seem more consistent overall with the messages of Christ in this as well as all other areas.

 

[PJM]

=Tantum ergo;6682714]Now IF what is termed the “RCC” had indeed gone off the rails somehow, wouldn’t one expect to find, at the very time this occurred, an ‘offshoot’ of that RCC which managed not to 'go astray?"

From what I understand, that would be a possible position for the Orthodox to claim (and for the Latin rite AKA RCC vice versa). IOW, one could see that both the RCC and the Orthodox are the “original” Church and that one of the two went astray (if only slightly and the ‘wandering’ can be easily corrected so to speak with a return of the ‘strayer’ to the ‘unstrayed.’

And to a lesser degree, one could see the Episcopal claim as being directly ‘from’ the RCC which they felt had ‘strayed’, or even the Lutheran. However, if either of these were truly the ‘unstrayed’, they should have remained ‘intact’ while the ‘straying’ RCC should have fragmented further and further. Surprisingly, though, it was the Episcopalians and the Lutherans et. al who went on to ‘fragment’ while the RCC stayed ‘intact’ doctrinally speaking.

The Episcopalian who felt his Church wasn’t quite right went on to become a Methodist, and later a non-denom.

The Catholic who felt his Church wasn’t quite right remained Catholic though perhaps for a time he wavered or was swayed by Jansenists, Feeneyites, etc. Still, the Jansenists did not ‘break’ from the RCC to form the Church of Jansen, while the brothers Wesley and their followers did indeed form the MEthodist Church from the Episcopal.

And while the Catholics have been rather persistent in holding out the olive branches, there is a lot of 'whore of babylon calling on the part of some (by no means all) Protestants.

Didn’t Jesus search for the lost sheep rather than ‘damn it?’ The actions of the Catholic Church seem more consistent overall with the messages of Christ in this as well as all other areas.

No, not truthfully or factually.

Either he Bible is true or it has no faith teaching value.

Certainly we agree that God knows what He is saying and doing; and that God can neither be in error or lie. READ again God’s promise in John 14: 16-17, and John 17: 14:19..

God can not recind His Promise of fidality forever. Nor can His Chuch error in teaching Faith and Morals. Everything else MIGHT BE POSIBLE.