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jmcrae
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I should have said certain Protestants.
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m134e5
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That is because Catholics in general, from what it seems (Iād like to be proven wrongā¦), are more concerned about not offending others than they are about sharing the truth they have found with others. They do not inspire each other to live their faith, so they donāt. They outdrink and smoke more than the agnostics and athiests They cuss like sailors and they donāt seem to care. They do not live lives of virtue, and take personal responsibility for their souls. They go to Mass simply because āthatās just what they doā, and you cannot see a difference between their conduct and that of their athiest and agnostic peers.
Know the Faith. NEVER EVER EVER EVER let ābecause the Church says soā be an answer when someone asks why you do something. It is a lousy answer- in some ways, it is worse than the wrong answer. Say you donāt know, rather than ābecause the Church says soā.
Live the Faith. The 10 commandments and the precepts of the Church are the starting point. Move up from there.
Love the Faith. Once you do the first two things- which are choices, this will come easier. When you are excited about going to Mass and doing Catholic things, those around you will wonder why and may want to see what you see in it.
Explore legitimate forms of Catholic spirituality- even if they donāt work for you- it helps to know about them. When you do this, you can guide people who are bored with Mass.
Pray for those who struggle with keeping their Faith, or who reject the Faith. That is the most important thing- and the easiest thing- that each person can do.
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jmcrae
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There may be Catholics like that somewhere, but I have never encountered them - never in real life, and never on line - not in 17 years as an Inquirer, and not in 6 years as a practicing Catholic. Ever. And Iām including Catholics whoāve lost their faith and donāt go to Mass anymore. Iāve never met anybody who fit that description, at all.
Even the most lukewarm Catholics Iāve ever met are always willing to grapple with serious faith issues, and willling to share their spiritual experiences - even those who still have a long road to travel before they return to the full practice of the faith, and even those who donāt think theyāll ever return to the faith.
Catholics who do practice their faith are also talking about their faith - a lot.
Just because they arenāt standing on street corners yelling at strangers doesnāt mean they arenāt going out for coffee and talking about these things quietly, one on one, or inviting people to come to RCIA, or other quiet methods of evangelism.
This web site itself is a shining example of Catholics getting out there and sharing their stories with the world, and there are dozens just like it.
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FCEGM
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cyberwolf001
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Just droping a thank you to everyone hereā¦
I think I found my calling from God
I think I found my calling from God
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Geremia
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This entry on secularismCatholic Encyclopedia might help.
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Lion_of_Narnia
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As one writer (SM Stirling in his Dies the Fire series) put it, debating religion with a Wiccan can be ālike trying to cut fog with an axe.ā There seems to be a deliberate retreat into relativism, subjectivism, and the rest of the post-modern cants to avoid inconvienent realities. A priori preferences (feminism, quasi-Luddite ecologism, abortion rights, gay rights, etcā¦) ARE the starting points for choosing theology, not the theology showing what are the proper positions. As some OLD threads with Wiccans have demonstrated, most current Wiccans dont even care that their āfaithā is historical nonsenseāits ātrue for themā (As Christians, especially Catholic Christians, we dont have that luxury)
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theistgal
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I sympathize - I have been involved in Wicca. For me, though, it was actually a gateway back into the Catholic Church - I have fallen into atheism a few times in my life, and each time, when I got to where I couldnāt disbelieve in God anymore, I made a pit stop in Wicca before coming back to the Church.
Probably itās because there are so many lapsed Catholics in it, but it does have a ābroken sacramentalā feel to it. I remember reading one of those āWiccan Book of Hoursā shortly before my last ārevertā, and feeling a longing for the real thing. (I hope that author finds her way back home too.)
"God writes straight with crooked lines ā¦ "
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CentralFLJames
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I would not go down the path of using Protestant efforts to fight wiccans as a yardstick for Catholics to attain to. Frankly, if you give some fringe groups too much attention that just worsens it by making it look like they are more significant a threat to Christianity than they are - they get more clout and bragging rights and free advertising to help recruit more to the side of the poor underdogs. Wiccans will follow the same pattern that their firefighter Protestants are facing - increasing fragmentation and dissension and ever more division of wiccan and satanic sects.
I find the whole image of Protestants fighting Wiccans to be rather comical since from my own Catholic perspective its really not much different than using fire to fight fire - formal heresy against naturalistic pagan-heresy/hedonism - misinformed vs. malformed. This is again not much different than the bible-only Christians (Calvary Chapel et-al and other mega aggregators) trying to steal paying/tithing followers from Baptists and Methodists and Lutherans and each of those trying to pilfer from each-other. All they are doing is horse trading one heresy and fractional truth for another and changing jockeys while running around in circles and getting no where.
James
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rr1213
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I wouldnāt go that far. Some of the Protestant traditions have retained a greater sum of the truth of Catholicism than other such traditionsā¦and almost all have retained more truth than the Wicca.
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MarcoPolo
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Do TITLE searches at Catholic Answers radio show archive like āoccultā or ābuddhismā or whatever. SEARCH HERE.
There are some good conversion stories from all walks at the Catholic Forum.
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CentralFLJames
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Maybe so.
But the neo-Christianity of Protestantism and the neo-Paganism of Wicca share in common the same dubious Johnny-Come-Lately āme tooā pattern as well as founding-fathers with the same proclivities for reinventing prior systems of religions and belief for fun and profit (Martin Luther [circa 1517] in the first case and Gerald Gardner [circa 1950] in the latter case). Frankly, it might be entertaining to see which errant step-child prevails in a contest under the bright lights - the golem of a snow covered dunghill or a skyclad protegee of an occultist with a fascination for headhunters, pygmies and primitive weaponry.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/61/Luther46c.jpg/225px-Luther46c.jpg VS. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ner_3.PNG/225px-Gerald_Brosseau_Gardner_3.PNG
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rr1213
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Assuming that Protestants have been validly baptised in the name of the Trinity, they arenāt neo-Christian but, rather, Christian. Each of the Protestant faiths depart from the fullness of the Catholic faith, yet each also retains some of the truth of Catholic Christianity. Some more than others.
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Stephen_C
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Well said
Off Topic: Just checked your profileā¦You are in my prayers as you continue your journey
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rr1213
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Much thanks. Iāll take all the prayers I can get right now. My wife and I are meeting with the RCIA director tomorrow, so weāre on our wayā¦Well said
Off Topic: Just checked your profileā¦You are in my prayers as you continue your journey
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CentralFLJames
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I have to disagree here. I can agree that any person who is baptised under the trinitarian formula and holds the proper intention of that rite receives the seed of Faith and an initial forgivness of sin, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and becomes in that moment Christian. However if they fail to nurture that faith through The Church and do not finish in Godās grace by falling away into grave sin they are a Christian in name only.
Further, the following false doctrines are most definately NOT Christian teachings and anyone, baptised or not, calling themselves Christian or not, who promotes them is sowing anti-Christian teachings and a gospel never before taught by Jesus or the Apostles:
Once Saved Always Saved.
By Faith Alone
Automatic Forgiveness of Sins/Private Confession
Double Predestiny
Invisible Church with no earthly ecclesial authority
Primacy of private interpretation of the Bible over The Church
Symbolic Presence of Jesus in Eucharist
The above teachings are NOT Christian - they are neo-Christian secular teachings that no apostle ever taught. Protestants subscribe to one or more of these new āneo-Christianā teachings. Ergo - Protestants are neo-Christians since they have added all new teachings and abandoned many original apostolic teachings.
There is no way to soft peddle it.
More Here: protestanterrors.com/
James
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rr1213
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Noā¦they are still Christian but are probably no longer in a state of grace.
Correctā¦although I suppose I could quibble on a few depending on what you mean. We can effectively confess venial sins privately to God. In very rare instances, we can effectively privately confess mortal sins to God (but there are a number of caveats there). As for āfaith aloneā, even Benedict has recently expressed a version of that Protestant battlecry which he says is consistent with Catholic teaching. Most Protestant understandings of the concept would not be consistent with Catholic teaching.
Not really ā¦ for the reasons set forth above. That Protestants are neo-Christian is true only in the same sense and in the same manner that Catholics who do not accept Catholic teachings are also neo-Christian. It is better to describe these folks (who, at times, includes all of us) as Christians who need the grace to better understand and accept the truth.
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ErrorCMDR
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Hey Wolf dude.
I set up a thread for Paganism Check it out
I set up a thread for Paganism Check it out
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CentralFLJames
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Perhaps āChristianā in the sense that they can still be recognized as such by their baptismal records and would be recognized by their friends in church if they showed up for Sunday worship or āChristianā if they were called up by a political census taker asking them to identify their religious affiliation and take a political survey etc. But if they were no longer in a state of grace the name means nothing special spiritually and actually becomes a liability if they die since they will be held to a higher standard of judgement than will a pure ignorant pagan.
Letās calibrate our semantics. No doubt most of us would agree that there are some that are baptised who are in hell. But do you think there are any āChristiansā in hell? Is this an oxymoron?
Agree on ability to receive forgivness of venial sins through prayer and in conditional ability to be forgiven on mortal sins through prayer in special extenuating circumstances (intention to go to confession or absence of a priest for last rites and sincere act of contrition). I am sure that there are novel ecumenically compelling ways for the Pontiff to find āworkā in the task of holding to āfaith aloneā but I am certain this is caveated in such a way that a lazy believism as a means to circumvent charitable works is not endorsed by the pope. But you are honest in admitting most Protestants would not accept this teaching.
The bottom line here is that Protestants are neo-Christians.
I donāt agree here. Actively rejecting proper apostolic teaching in favor of secular neo-Christian teachings is not the same thing as being an imperfect Christian who knows the proper teachings and accepts them but falls short due to human weakness and concupescence or laziness. But both are at severe risk of going to hell.
I can accept your desire for more inclusionary words but I think this creates a false sense of security. I happen to think its better to speak boldly and wake these people up (as well as those who know better but are just lazy) to the fact that they are at grave risk of eternal hell for teaching and practising neo-Christianity. God is flooding the planet with grace through His Church. Grace is available - we just need to get people sober enough and motivated enough to get out of their comfort zones to go grab it by the bucket full and letting it repair them and enlighten them before its too late.
James
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jmcrae
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As I understand it, the teaching of the Church is that everyone in Hell (along with everyone in Heaven) is Catholic. If they were not so during their lives, they became so at death, when all Truth was revealed to them. Some were baptized, and others not, but they will all know the Truth.
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