Where are the bible passages condemning Homosexuality

[Church_Militant]

The Bible is pretty clear. Jesus may not have dealt with it specifically, but the apostles, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit certainly did.

As for those “Christians” who “explain it all away” with their different interpretations…That’s one good reason that we are Catholics, because we don’t mess with the Word of God. The Church maintains the same position it has always held on this. Modern teachings of men are in gross error and will incur the judgement that James 3:1 speaks about. Hate it for 'em.

 

[stevekehl]

Paul’s words against homosexuality can be brought into question by the fact that Christians generally do not obey words attributed to him as regards the conduct of women in church, which were pointed and unmistakable:

1 Corinthians 14: 34:
“Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says.”
Paul anticipates grumbling about this and reiterates that this commandment comes not from him, but from God.

They are in the Church of Christ.

Even homosexuality in connection with Sodom and Gomorrah had not to do with monogamy and commitment but with casual lust, which would have been damnable even if it pertained to sexual relations between men and women.

So if the men of Sodom had said “Lot we want to marry the strangers in your home” that would have been ok?

And Matthew 19: 4-6, where Jesus speaks of God having made them male and female, and having joined them together, so they may become one flesh, may also be questioned. Was not Jesus acutely aware of the audience to whom he was speaking? The social order to which he was addressing himself? Perhaps he no more spoke to them of a “profound and unalterable homosexual orientation that could be redeemed through lifelong monogamy and commitment, and fear of the Lord” than he did of the abolition of slavery or the rights of women, because the time had not yet come (just as it was not the time to affirm the rightness of “representative democracy” or “no taxation without representation”).

That’s a pretty convoluted theory. You are suggesting that the message has changed with time. Representative democracy was invented by the Romans before the birth of Jesus (ever hear of the Senate, it was voted on by property holding citizens, the same criteria for America until the 1820s under the Constitution). Slavery still exists in many parts of the world as well as second class status for women, does this mean the Gospel today doesn’t apply to them, has passed them by? The Gospel is the same today as it was when Jesus preached it, only our cultures have changed.

It’s also notable that Jesus did not condemn same sex unions, per se; he merely reinforced the rightness of the permanency of marriage, as regards the only marriages that existed among the Israelites at the time – those between a man and a woman (nor, I might add, did he intend these words to forbid non-marriage and the practice of lifelong celibacy, as a violation of the commandment “be fruitful and multiply”!)

Actually you’re wrong about all of that. Jesus did condemn homosexuality, you just have to be able to speak Greek to understand it.
Matthew 15:19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
and again.
Mark 7:21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
The Greek word translated here as fornications is porneia, it covers everything the Jews would have considered sexual sins, including incest, pedophilia, bestiality, unmarried sex and homosexuality. As for celibacy, Jesus didn’t intend for this passage to forbid it because He endorsed celibacy by being celibate himself. The same can’t be said for homosexuality.

Some things he condemned in the society around him, and other things he left as they were. He didn’t tell them to free their slaves, or to empower their women (menstruating women were believed to be unclean and there was an enforced separation from their husbands during their “unclean” periods, a rule that few of us today would find to be in harmony with the spirit of God). It could have been the society itself that had not yet caught up with God’s will.

No where in the New Testament does it say to free slaves or empower women. It does give commands regarding how slaves and masters should behave as well as how husbands and wives were to relate to each other. Actually,nowhere in the NT does it say to empower anyone, but to consider others before ourselves, that the first shall be last and the last first, that the greatest will be the servant of all. Where do you see empowerment?

Retired Anglican archbishop Desmond Tutu proclaimed, in July 2012, “in the future, the laws that criminalize so many forms of human love and commitment will look the way apartheid laws do to us now – so obviously wrong.” I don’t think the quoting of Biblical passages would convince him otherwise, anymore than Catholics would be swayed in their Mariology by solely Scriptural arguments.

How many forms of human love are their? And which forms are criminal? I believe only pedophilia. Is Tutu implying that one day pedophilia will be legal? Did you actually say that a Christian couldn’t be swayed by the Word of God? I think that says it all about Christians who try to say God approves of homosexuality

 

[Petersmate]

The Bible is pretty clear. Jesus may not have dealt with it specifically, but the apostles, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit certainly did.

As for those “Christians” who “explain it all away” with their different interpretations…That’s one good reason that we are Catholics, because we don’t mess with the Word of God. The Church maintains the same position it has always held on this. Modern teachings of men are in gross error and will incur the judgement that James 3:1 speaks about. Hate it for 'em.

I don’t think Jesus mentioned paedophilia specifically either so if we use the homosexual activists argument, they must think its ok to be a paedophile.

 

[bitznbitez]

A bit of levity…

Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house: neither shalt thou desire his wife, nor his servant, nor his handmaid, nor his ox, nor his ***, nor any thing that is his. Exodus 20:17

Its right there after coveting his ox… don’t covet his a… oh well nevermind … I see the forum filter is using ***'s to cover up the Douay rendering of that text … ( I promise I won’t do that again… )

To the serious though one of the chief things is changing the sin of sodom to being inhospitable. This is done via the following

“‘Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. 50They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen. Ezekiel 16:49-50.

Usually the quote is just verse 49 and the claim is homosexuality is not mentioned at all. Omitting the fact that in verse 50 “and did detestable things” was simply Ezekiels way of mentioning it in polite company.

 

[CyberAngel]

Rom 1:32 Who, having known the justice of God, did not understand that they who do such things, are worthy of death: and not only they that do them, but they also that consent to them that do them.

To some:
Do you understand that defending gay marriage or any homo activity is even worse?!
REPENT!

 

[SHJIHM]

If you are using it as proof text, you must illiminate the OT texts. Those are the same scriptures that also say you cannot wear clothing made of 2 different materials, eat pork or shellfish, and stone to death those caught in adultery. You must concentrate on the NT verses. Also FYI pro-gay christians are going to ask, what did Jesus say on the subject?

No sir we do not eliminate the OT texts. You are correct in that the OT contains laws that would dictate how a man was to live cleanly. Not wearing clothing made of different materials as an example, not eating pork or shellfish as another example. All of these laws sought to make one clean in the eyes of God.

Now what did Jesus say imperically…“I did not come to destroy the law but to fulfill the law.”

Only in Jesus are we made clean. Nothing we can wear or put into out mouths can make us dirty. Thus Jesus fulfills these laws. And in the same breath does not destroy the law. Meaning that the moral laws Jesus did not abolish. They still stand.

So no sir, we are not eliminiate the OT texts.

 

[una_fides]

I don’t think Jesus mentioned paedophilia specifically either so if we use the homosexual activists argument, they must think its ok to be a paedophile.

Interesting point you raise there, and it’s something that most homosexual activists detest discussing, precisely because one act is still considered by society to be detestable, unnatural, and perverse, but the other has in some places become acceptable when it used to be in the same former category.

If you look at the few societies within the history of the world that actually accepted homosexuality, you will also find that they accepted pedophilia as also acceptable. Homosexuals and their proponents will argue that they are born that way and that it is natural, and they have belabored this point to the extent that even now some Catholics on this forum seem to be acting as if they were born that way. To argue that homosexuality is somehow natural would be to also argue that pedophilia is also natural. Here is a shocking fact for the day: There are more pedophiles in the general population than there are homosexuals! Look it up. Homosexuals are also much more likely to be pedophiles. There is an undeniable connection between homosexuality and pedophilia that should not be overlooked. But you won’t see tv shows or news reports depicting these facts any time soon.

These facts are rooted in the Word of God as well. In Romans 1, St Paul–under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit–explains that homosexuals were delivered over to what he refers to as “shameful passions.” God in these Scriptures describes homosexual acts as “perverse.” “Wherefore, God gave them up to the desires of their heart, unto uncleanness: to dishonor their own bodies among themselves” (v 24). Once one has been turned over to these kinds of passions, he becomes a slave to them, and it opens the door to other such unnatural behavior. “And as they liked not to have God in their knowledge, God delivered them up to a reprobate sense, to do those things which are improper” (v28).

 

[annem]

una fides

If you look at the few societies within the history of the world that actually accepted homosexuality, you will also find that they accepted pedophilia as also acceptable. Homosexuals and their proponents will argue that they are born that way and that it is natural, and they have belabored this point to the extent that even now some Catholics on this forum seem to be acting as if they were born that way. To argue that homosexuality is somehow natural would be to also argue that pedophilia is also natural. Here is a shocking fact for the day: There are more pedophiles in the general population than there are homosexuals! Look it up. Homosexuals are also much more likely to be pedophiles. There is an undeniable connection between homosexuality and pedophilia that should not be overlooked. But you won’t see tv shows or news reports depicting these facts any time soon.

Pedophilia was rampant in both Rome and Greece… In both instances, boys were considered to be objects of desire until the day they sprouted their first body hair. There were brothels that sold only boys.

Slaves were of course sexually abused; they had no rights over their own bodies. So to make money, for example, many wealthy Romans sent their young male slaves to be used in the brothels. It was very profitable for the owner of many slaves.

Things were so bad that parents had to hire bodyguards for their little boys sent off to schools. They couldn’t walk the streets without perhaps being abused or meeting older men offering them gifts and bribes.

This all sickens us.

But it most assuredly happened.

God bless all, Annem

 

[annem]

stevekehl

Actually you’re wrong about all of that. Jesus did condemn homosexuality, you just have to be able to speak Greek to understand it.
Matthew 15:19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
and again.
Mark 7:21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
The Greek word translated here as fornications is porneia, it covers everything the Jews would have considered sexual sins, including incest, pedophilia, bestiality, unmarried sex and homosexuality. As for celibacy, Jesus didn’t intend for this passage to forbid it because He endorsed celibacy by being celibate himself. The same can’t be said for homosexuality.

Yes, and we have ironclad evidence that both Second Temple Jews and the early Christians forbade homosexual activity.

God bless, Annem

 

[fames]

The specific texts, on their own, could probably be explained away.

:doh2: Sola Scriptura, we meet again…

 

[annem]

Whoops, I forgot to add this iinformation:

All Christians should read this book: “When Children Became People”, which is about how Christianity changed, utterly changed, the ancient world in regards to children.

You have to read it for the enormous impact the belief that children all had souls and were valuable had upon society. So much of what we take for granted as common sense or ordinary morality began only because of Christianity.

It is the most marvelous book. I wish I could force feed it to atheists.

If anyone is interested in the history of the ancient world and sexuality, I can also provide some titles. But they are all very, very depressing. I know some titles that are not in any way prurient, just give information.

God bless, Annem

 

[GratefulFred]

I think it important to read Romans 1: 26, 27 in its entire context: Romans 1: 18-32.

Punishment of Idolaters.

Romans 1: 18 The wrath of God***** is indeed being revealed from heaven against every impiety and wickedness of those who suppress the truth by their wickedness.
19 For what can be known about God is evident to them, because God made it evident to them.
20 Ever since the creation of the world, his invisible attributes of eternal power and divinity have been able to be understood and perceived in what he has made. As a result, they have no excuse;
21 for although they knew God they did not accord him glory as God or give him thanks. Instead, they became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless minds were darkened.
22 While claiming to be wise, they became fools
23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for the likeness of an image of mortal man or of birds or of four-legged animals or of snakes.
24 Therefore, God handed them over to impurity through the lusts of their hearts* for the mutual degradation of their bodies.
25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie and revered and worshiped the creature rather than the creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 Therefore, God handed them over to degrading passions. Their females exchanged natural relations for unnatural,
27 and the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity.
28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God handed them over to their undiscerning mind to do what is improper.
29 They are filled with every form of wickedness, evil, greed, and malice; full of envy, murder, rivalry, treachery, and spite. They are gossips
30 and scandalmongers and they hate God. They are insolent, haughty, boastful, ingenious in their wickedness, and rebellious toward their parents.
31 They are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless.
32 Although they know the just decree of God that all who practice such things deserve death, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.
__________
IMO, any personal interpretation that goes against Church teaching is not of God and not to be considered as equal or better than Church teaching. See verse 22 above.

This issue is a current political debate. See verse 32 above. I do not see how we can be “for” gay sex and at the same time be for God.

We all sin one way or the other. Perhaps many of us have committed mortal sin or many mortal sins. We deserve death. But God is also Mericful to the repentent. I think it important to acknowledge our weaknesses, best done privately in Confession.

And I think it very important we do not try to promote sin as being right. I know we have laws that protect sin. But existing immoral laws do not justify creating more immoral laws. That only builds a more immoral, Godless society.

 

[Jimmygill88]

What I object to is the fact that hardly any other part of Leviticus is taken any notice of. By this standard any catholic wearing a garment made from mixed fabric is a sinner, and we should all keep Kosher

 

[CyberAngel]

All the ceremonial laws applied to the Gentiles?

Act 15:19 For which cause, judge that they who from among the Gentiles are converted to God are not to be disquieted:
Act 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they refrain themselves from the pollutions of idols and from fornication and from things strangled and from blood.

Act 15:28 For it hath seemed good to the Holy Ghost and to us to lay no further burden upon you than these necessary things:
Act 15:29 That you abstain from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication: from which things keeping yourselves, you shall do well. Fare ye well.

 

[fames]

All the ceremonial laws applied to the Gentiles?

Act 15:19 For which cause, judge that they who from among the Gentiles are converted to God are not to be disquieted:
Act 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they refrain themselves from the pollutions of idols and from fornication and from things strangled and from blood.

Act 15:28 For it hath seemed good to the Holy Ghost and to us to lay no further burden upon you than these necessary things:
Act 15:29 That you abstain from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication: from which things keeping yourselves, you shall do well. Fare ye well.

No, these were temporary precepts.

 

[Jerry_Parker]

Church Militant wrote:

*Leviticus 20:13 (Douay Rheims)
13 If any one lie with a man as with a woman, both have committed an abomination, let them be put to death: their blood be upon them.

Show with Knox Bible :: New Jerusalem Bible :: Latin Vulgate :: Haydock Commentary
Bible passage courtesy of VeritasBible.com

Leviticus 18:23 (Douay Rheims)
23 Thou shalt not copulate with any beast, neither shalt thou be defiled with it. A woman shall not lie down to a beast, nor copulate with it: because it is a heinous crime.

Show with Knox Bible :: New Jerusalem Bible :: Latin Vulgate :: Haydock Commentary
Bible passage courtesy of VeritasBible.com *

*Leviticus 18:22 (Douay Rheims)
22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind, because it is an abomination.

Show with Knox Bible :: New Jerusalem Bible :: Latin Vulgate :: Haydock Commentary
Bible passage courtesy of VeritasBible.com

1 Corinthians 6:10 (Douay Rheims)
10 Nor the effeminate, nor liers with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor railers, nor extortioners, shall possess the kingdom of God.

Show with Knox Bible :: New Jerusalem Bible :: Latin Vulgate :: Haydock Commentary
Bible passage courtesy of VeritasBible.com

There are probably more, but these are pretty concise. *
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Congratulations, Church Militant, for having the wisdom to give precedence to quoting the passages in the Douay-Rheims-Challoner Version. The modern translations tend to “load the dice” by translating in ways (whether to render more explicitly condemnatory of, or to exculpate, gay sex) that reads into the Bible`s own words in Latin, Hebrew, and Greek the views of the translators. The Authorised “King James” Version (A.V.) also translates in a similarly neutral, non-biassed way these same passages. There are passages (that bear less directly on the issue) elsewhere, including within the deuterocanonical writings, and the Challoner and A.V. Bibles translate them with restraint, too. That is something very helpful, for what one wants to analyse is what the Bible itself really is saying about this matter.

 

[Contarini]

What I object to is the fact that hardly any other part of Leviticus is taken any notice of.

And that’s why prooftexting Leviticus is a bad approach.

You’re wrong that Christians ignore the rest of it, though. Traditionally the OT law is divided into three parts: moral, ceremonial, and judicial. The moral laws remain binding; the ceremonial were fulfilled in Jesus and are not binding; and the judicial were specific to a particular historical context and are also not binding, although the principles behind them are part of the moral law and thus remain binding.

So the question is whether the law forbidding sex between two men is moral or ceremonial. I don’t think that can be answered from Leviticus alone. But it’s clear from the NT and from Christian tradition that this and most other OT restrictions on sexual activity do pertain to the moral law and not just the ceremonial law–indeed, NT sexual morality is generally stricter than OT.

Edwin

 

[CyberAngel]

No, these were temporary precepts.

then you will have temporary heaven…the rest will be a surprise…

 

[Holly3278]

I may have posted in this thread already but if not, here are the verses concerning homosexuality that I know of:

You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; such a thing is an abomination. You shall not have carnal relations with an animal, defiling yourself with it; nor shall a woman set herself in front of an animal to mate with it; such things are abhorrent. Do not defile yourselves by any of these things by which the nations whom I am driving out of your way have defiled themselves. Because their land has become defiled, I am punishing it for its wickedness, by making it vomit out its inhabitants.
(Leviticus 18:22-25 NAB)

Therefore, God handed them over to impurity through the lusts of their hearts for the mutual degradation of their bodies. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie and revered and worshiped the creature rather than the creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. Therefore, God handed them over to degrading passions. Their females exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity.
(Romans 1:24-27 NAB)

Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes nor practicing homosexuals nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God. That is what some of you used to be; but now you have had yourselves washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.
(1 Corinthians 6:9-11 NAB)

A woman shall not wear an article proper to a man, nor shall a man put on a woman’s dress; for anyone who does such things is an abomination to the LORD, your God.
(Deuteronomy 22:5 NAB)

The last one I’d say would be a reference to transvestism.

 

[Jerry-Jet]

Practicing homosexuals will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

If you want to go to Hell then be an unrepentantly practicing homosexual at death.

What could be clearer?

Look–either God the Holy Spirit inspired those words or He didn’t. They are either true or they’re not. It doesn’t matter whether anyone likes them or doesn’t like them.

Obey the Bible or go to Hell–it’s that simple!