Where Are the Catholics That Actually Practice NFP? (And why are they so hard to find?)

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the evil of contraception and its undeniable link to abortion.

I hope you find you will have support somewhere, but I hope that you and your wife are able to avoid those fallen Catholics who will not support you in your journey.
I have to take issue with that statement. People who are willing to abort an innocent child are far more than birth control pill users, they have more than a closed-mindedness to life but a contempt for it and an evil heart. I know countless people who use birth control but who are absolutely 100% staunchly committed to life and are anti-abortion. Using birth control does not necessarily lead to an evil abortion mode of thinking. Many couples contracept but “slip up” and get pregnant. They go on to gladly accept their little “surprise.” My wife and I used contraception for years before being Catholic and we were firmly pro-life then just as now. We never would have aborted any baby, period. That’s an oversimplification. We hear the statistic that says now NFP-users have a less than 1% divorce rate, etc. but we don’t know if NFP had anything to do with that? So, divorce rates and abortion rates tied to NFP is not exact statistically or empirically to say the least.
 
You know, I’ve just never gotten the feeling that most of the diocesan priests I know REALLY want the majority of their flock to have 6,7,8 kids a piece. I could be wrong, but I certainly haven’t been under the impression that big families are something most priests out there are hoping for. I’m not trying to quibble, just wondering what in your experience leads you to feel this way? I’m always interested in hearing what others out there have experienced.
I have never heard anything said by a priest or a bishop discouraging parents from having more than a couple kids, so I’m giving them the benefit of the doubt that most internally accept the Church’s teaching in this area. As a side note, I do know that clergy are well aware of the priest shortage and math tells me the more kids people have, the more new priests there will be. If couples stop at one or two, they’re not as likely to encourage one of their sons to consider the priesthood as a vocation.
I agree that priests may be afraid of some of the lay leaders in their parish, but I’m convinced they are MORE afraid that preaching against contraception is going to lead to less people showing up at mass, and consequently less money in the coffers.
I agree that money is part of it, but mostly I think they’re just afraid of offending Catholics and losing them from the Church altogether.
Amen, brother! I send my prayers that you and your wife will come across NFPers in your area who can give you support. It’s really tough to feel like you are doing it alone!
Thank you. She is not so positive about NFP anymore. It certainly doesn’t help when my non-Catholic wife hears from so many “Catholic” women that she should get her tubes tide or go on the pill. She thinks it’s very hypocritical that our church says ABC is sinful, yet every Catholic she knows uses it without a second thought. She’s absolutely right.
 
Where are we? We are such a small minority, but you tell the families with more than 3 kids (because we want to), never miss Sunday or Holy day mass, and are faith centered. NFP has worked great for my wife and I, but in my parish of 300 families, we are likely the only NFP couple.
The problem with orthodox NFP-practicing Catholics is that they can become borderline Pharisees. Watching to see how many kids a family has to judge them as faithful, good Catholics or not is fallacious and un-Christian. What if a couple had two children and then the woman had olvarian cancer? She can’t have further children. But the woman next to her in the pew on Sunday has six kids? Which one LOOKS more faithful and orthodox? We can’t spot judge how many kids a family has to determine what’s in their hearts?? Not everyone is meant to have fifty kids.
 
I started this thread under the Moral Theology section, but apparently not many people look in there so I’m starting it again here.

I’m Catholic and my wife is not. We have five children and number six is on the way. We have practiced NFP for some time now, but let me tell you, the support we get from other Catholics in this area is virtually non-existent. In fact it’s worse. Every time my wife talks to a Catholic woman about what we do, they call her crazy. The common response is “Why don’t you get your tubes tied?” or “You’re nuts for not using the pill.” These are Catholic women telling my wife, a non-Catholic, that sterilization and artificial contraception are totally fine. It was hard enough to get my wife on board with NFP, and now “Catholic” women are totally undermining this. If these other women, and their husbands, want to blatently violate Church teaching in their own lives, that’s their business, but STOP ADVISING MY WIFE TO DO THE SAME!! Shame on them.

I think the Church gives us very mixed messages on this issue. On the one hand artificial contraception is labeled as mortally sinful, but on the other hand, I never hear a priest or a bishop talk about it and NFP programs seem to mostly come from private organizations outside the Church. If the Church is really serious about the evils of contraception, why is there almost no emphasis on it, how come I never hear about it, and why isn’t an NFP program a mandatory requirement at every parish?
Maybe it depends on demographics. I’m in the heart of a very proNFP/proFamily archdiocese. It seems completely normal to hear about life issues every Sunday.

I do know what you mean about laypeople, though. It seems those who are atheist or secular have a better appreciation of NFP.
 
I have to take issue with that statement. People who are willing to abort an innocent child are far more than birth control pill users, they have more than a closed-mindedness to life but a contempt for it and an evil heart. I know countless people who use birth control but who are absolutely 100% staunchly committed to life and are anti-abortion. Using birth control does not necessarily lead to an evil abortion mode of thinking. Many couples contracept but “slip up” and get pregnant. They go on to gladly accept their little “surprise.” My wife and I used contraception for years before being Catholic and we were firmly pro-life then just as now. We never would have aborted any baby, period. That’s an oversimplification. We hear the statistic that says now NFP-users have a less than 1% divorce rate, etc. but we don’t know if NFP had anything to do with that? So, divorce rates and abortion rates tied to NFP is not exact statistically or empirically to say the least.
I understand what you are saying. If one contracepts but is still anti-abortion, then they are staunchly committed to life. You are partially correct, and I was the same way. But after researching the issue a little deeper I discovered that one cannot truly be pro-life and pro-contraception at the same time. For one thing, the pill can act as an abortificient. But on a deeper level, once you study the Church’s teaching on these matters, you begin to see how both contraception and abortion are morally wrong. Even though many who contracept would never have an abortion, there is an undeniable connection between the two in our society. Read Pope Paul VI’s Humanae Vitae:

vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae_en.html
 
The problem with orthodox NFP-practicing Catholics is that they can become borderline Pharisees. Watching to see how many kids a family has to judge them as faithful, good Catholics or not is fallacious and un-Christian. What if a couple had two children and then the woman had olvarian cancer? She can’t have further children. But the woman next to her in the pew on Sunday has six kids? Which one LOOKS more faithful and orthodox? We can’t spot judge how many kids a family has to determine what’s in their hearts?? Not everyone is meant to have fifty kids.
Has this really happened to you? I find it hard to believe this is much of an issue given that there are so few NFP-practicing Catholics out there in the first place. Who’s watching how many kids other people are having and then making judgements? No, I think the much bigger problem is that most Catholics are contracepting and then make judgements against the Church when it says this is wrong.
 
The problem with orthodox NFP-practicing Catholics is that they can become borderline Pharisees. Watching to see how many kids a family has to judge them as faithful, good Catholics or not is fallacious and un-Christian. What if a couple had two children and then the woman had olvarian cancer? She can’t have further children. But the woman next to her in the pew on Sunday has six kids? Which one LOOKS more faithful and orthodox? We can’t spot judge how many kids a family has to determine what’s in their hearts?? Not everyone is meant to have fifty kids.
Wow, that’s not my experience. Among the people I have spoken with at at my parish on the subject (and I will admit it has always been light conversation, and usually has been sparked by my being pregnant or having my kids with me and initiated by the other person), the only one that openly spoke supporting NFP was a girl with fertility problems that has been married for several years and has not been able to have children (though she is trying to adopt now). In my family, the people that practice NFP (that I know of) have 3 and 5 children each, and the one with 5 started practicing it right after the 5th to not have any more children for the rest of her fertile years due to a medical condition.
Has this really happened to you? I find it hard to believe this is much of an issue given that there are so few NFP-practicing Catholics out there in the first place. Who’s watching how many kids other people are having and then making judgements? No, I think the much bigger problem is that most Catholics are contracepting and then make judgements against the Church when it says this is wrong.
I agree, and also many people are either ignorant of the teaching (and don’t hear about it from anyone) or think that its ok because someone told them it was (a priest, devout Catholic family member, etc) or because they see everyone does it and just guess its a rule that may not have to be followed or something.
 
I have also heard the 4-5% statistic. It is what it is.

Where are they? Everywhere–and especially concentrated in strong dioceses.

Why are they hard to find? Because most Catholics traditional/conservative enough to practice NFP are also traditional/conservative enough not to talk about it, since it is something inextricably linked to one’s sex life.

(The flip side: Yes, the vast majority of people use contraception. But how many people are you SURE use contraception, because they’ve actually brought the topic up?)

You’ve found the right forum if you want to learn more about it, and start gathering resources & websites. Since this is an anonymous board, you’re going to hear/read a great deal more about NFP here than you would away from your computer. But don’t discount the effectiveness or importance of the web for this purpose–I think it was JPII who tallked about the importance of the internet in the New Evangelization!
 
I have to take issue with that statement. People who are willing to abort an innocent child are far more than birth control pill users, they have more than a closed-mindedness to life but a contempt for it and an evil heart. I know countless people who use birth control but who are absolutely 100% staunchly committed to life and are anti-abortion. Using birth control does not necessarily lead to an evil abortion mode of thinking. Many couples contracept but “slip up” and get pregnant. They go on to gladly accept their little “surprise.” My wife and I used contraception for years before being Catholic and we were firmly pro-life then just as now. We never would have aborted any baby, period. That’s an oversimplification. We hear the statistic that says now NFP-users have a less than 1% divorce rate, etc. but we don’t know if NFP had anything to do with that? So, divorce rates and abortion rates tied to NFP is not exact statistically or empirically to say the least.
Wow, that doesn’t make any sense at all. But, I know the same kind of people! E.g. my friend is taking Yasmin because it prevents implantation of the new human, but all she does is talk about babies and wanting to get married. Weird! :confused:

Nevertheless, anyone who is anti-abortion but pro-contraception is probably just uninformed. If you fully informed them, their answer would be the final indicator of exactly how “antiabortion” they really were.
 
As a devout, practicing with every breath we take, Catholic couple, I ask you not to judge your Parish by the number of children you see in the pew.

Some of us have only one child. Some have more, some have none sitting there with them.

Unless you know your fellow parishioners well enought to know the intimate details of their marriage, do not let the number of kids at Mass determine their orthodoxy or the way the follow the teaching of Holy Mother Church.
 
As a devout, practicing with every breath we take, Catholic couple, I ask you not to judge your Parish by the number of children you see in the pew.

Some of us have only one child. Some have more, some have none sitting there with them.

Unless you know your fellow parishioners well enought to know the intimate details of their marriage, do not let the number of kids at Mass determine their orthodoxy or the way the follow the teaching of Holy Mother Church.
No one here is judging our fellow Catholics based on the number of kids at mass. Rather, we are pointing out that it’s a statistical certainty that the vast majority of Catholics contracept. There is no debate on that fact, and that is the crux of what we are “judging.” And it’s not our individual judgement, but the Church’s. We are simply pointing it out what has already been determined by the Church to be wrong, bringing it out into the open for discussion. To those Catholic couples who faithfully follow the teachings of the Church in marital matters and yet have no children, God bless you for your faithfulness and trust in God. You are an example of how we should be.
 
As a devout, practicing with every breath we take, Catholic couple, I ask you not to judge your Parish by the number of children you see in the pew.

Some of us have only one child. Some have more, some have none sitting there with them.

Unless you know your fellow parishioners well enought to know the intimate details of their marriage, do not let the number of kids at Mass determine their orthodoxy or the way the follow the teaching of Holy Mother Church.
Thank you! Bless you. :clapping:

Nothing steams me more than those who assume that a family with three or more kids is “real Catholic” and those with fewer kids are contracepting.
 
I have to agree, up to a point, with the ‘if you don’t have 3+ kids’ they think you’re on ABC…In my previous parish I got that A LOT! All my daughters classmates had 4 or 5 siblings, their parents used to look at us rather smugly down their noses…one even quoted the Bible at me to show how well-versed she was. In our current parish we’re more the ‘norm’ with 2 kids, and I feel a lot more comfortable. On the internet messageboards I also hear a lot ‘very large families’ who somehow infer they are more ‘blessed by God’ than us mere mortals who ‘surely must be on ABC’ and frankly I’m sick of it! I don’t use anything, not even NFP, but I’m sure God must have a reason:shrug: !

Anna x
 
Why do people think that there is a positive correlation between NFP use and family size? That makes no sense at all.

Are “people”, whoever you/they are, who make that correlation saying that if a couple uses NFP that they have large families because of a mindset that is open to life? Are you saying it’s ineffective in actual use, therefore large families result?

I think there are more NFP users in church than we think. First, the statistic of low NFP use is the number of people who say they are Catholic use NFP. The denominator is number of Catholics in the survey.

As we all know, most Catholics don’t go to church every Sunday. In my parish, during the Sunday masses we can only fit 4000 people in the church. 5 masses X 800 person church capacity = 4000. We have 4000 registered families in our parish! If most families have 4 people in them, then only 1000 families attend every Sunday. 3000 families do not. If fact, we get about 1000 envelopes every Sunday in the offering.

So, I’m not a math wiz, but if you reduce the denominator of the 3.2% NFP use to only count the people who are regular church going Catholics, it’s a higher number.

But, really, other than a count of children, which doesn’t have a correlation to NFP use, how would you know unless you took a survey IN CHURCH?

My wife and I are middle aged, have three children 11 and over, one in heaven you can’t see. NFP or NO NFP?
 
It’s so hard to express yourself completely in one post on an internet board 😦 I would never, in a million years, look around my church and judge somebody based on the number of children they have. I am particularly sensitive to this because I grew up in a very “traditional” Catholic background in which there was judging going on all the time (I’m not saying all “traditional” upbringings are like this, just that mine was). I tend to come at these issues from a slightly different perspective because I have lived most of my life around “orthodox” Catholics and their very-large families. I have been privy to what goes on behind closed to doors (to some degree) and can tell you that large families can be just as unhappy as small families, and there are no guarantees that just because a family goes to church several times a week, says the rosary every day, and homeschools their 9 children that they are any more charitable or happily married than couples I know who may very well contracept and have 2 children. Indeed, my husband and I have one of the smallest families among his coworkers (works for a Catholic organization), and I have been judged more than once for not having more. I know what it’s like to be on that other side, and it’s a real turnoff to have people looking down their noses at you while they sit on their high horses feeling mighty. The same people who complain incessantly about being asked “Are you done yet?” quite frequently ask their friends and family “So when are you having your next one?” :mad:

So to anyone that thinks my comments suggested that I think all Catholics who are true to the church need to have a dozen (or half-dozen, for that matter 😃 ) children, I apologize. I don’t think everyone is meant to have a large brood, and I don’t waste my time and energy worrying about other couples’ decisions regarding their own families. Geez, I have enough of my OWN issues to worry about :eek: This motherhood thing has been a tremendous struggle for me from day one!!
 
PaulinVa,

It’s simply been my experience that almost every one of the couples I know who use NFP have large families. That’s hardly scientific 😉 I don’t know if it’s because most of those people married fairly young and started having families young (went to a traditional Catholic college, so many of the people we know who use NFP happen to have married young), never had a history of birth control pill use (which can possibly adversely affect future fertility), came from large families themselves and so were open to the idea, didn’t feel they had a major reason not to have large families and so only intended their NFP use to be child-spacing at most, were poorly instructed or happen to have very difficult cycles (mine are very difficult to interpret, so I know this can happen), “messed up” on NFP a bunch of times, or if it’s just a huge coincidence. But I would imagine if this is my experience, it’s probably been the experience of others out there in Catholic land. This may not be your experience at all, and so you probably come at this from a different perspective. I always like to hear what others are seeing/experiencing in their circles because it’s fascinating and broadens ALL of our perspectives.
 
Why do people think that there is a positive correlation between NFP use and family size? That makes no sense at all.

Are “people”, whoever you/they are, who make that correlation saying that if a couple uses NFP that they have large families because of a mindset that is open to life? Are you saying it’s ineffective in actual use, therefore large families result?

I think there are more NFP users in church than we think. First, the statistic of low NFP use is the number of people who say they are Catholic use NFP. The denominator is number of Catholics in the survey.

As we all know, most Catholics don’t go to church every Sunday. In my parish, during the Sunday masses we can only fit 4000 people in the church. 5 masses X 800 person church capacity = 4000. We have 4000 registered families in our parish! If most families have 4 people in them, then only 1000 families attend every Sunday. 3000 families do not. If fact, we get about 1000 envelopes every Sunday in the offering.

So, I’m not a math wiz, but if you reduce the denominator of the 3.2% NFP use to only count the people who are regular church going Catholics, it’s a higher number.

But, really, other than a count of children, which doesn’t have a correlation to NFP use, how would you know unless you took a survey IN CHURCH?

My wife and I are middle aged, have three children 11 and over, one in heaven you can’t see. NFP or NO NFP?
I’m glad that you haven’t gotten any flak. Those of us with no children or only one can tell you that not everyone is kind, and many jump to mean conclusions. We are often thought of as selfish for not having children (worse for us because I’m a grad student), and told that we’re squandering our youth and fertility, that we must be doing something wrong in bed, that marriage is meant for children, that those of us without children will be all alone when we’re old and the parents that were open to life will be surrounded by loving children- almost in a “nyah, nyah” tone.

We’ve got at least one saint in heaven, probably more. I don’t bother testing anymore when my period is late as apparently I cannot carry a pregnancy past 5 weeks. No NFP, no ABC. Yet most assume that we are part of the supposed 95% who are contracepting.
 
I’m glad that you haven’t gotten any flak. Those of us with no children or only one can tell you that not everyone is kind, and many jump to mean conclusions. We are often thought of as selfish for not having children (worse for us because I’m a grad student), and told that we’re squandering our youth and fertility, that we must be doing something wrong in bed, that marriage is meant for children, that those of us without children will be all alone when we’re old and the parents that were open to life will be surrounded by loving children- almost in a “nyah, nyah” tone.

We’ve got at least one saint in heaven, probably more. I don’t bother testing anymore when my period is late as apparently I cannot carry a pregnancy past 5 weeks. No NFP, no ABC. Yet most assume that we are part of the supposed 95% who are contracepting.
And it’s wrong for them to criticize. Whether one contracepts or not, no one else should be picking out individuals and pointing fingers. But keep in mind the big picture here–you are one of the few exceptions to the masses. You are faithfully following the teachings of the Church, and one can ask no more than that. Perhaps you should tell anyone whoever criticizes you for not having more kids (and be direct), “We don’t contracept, if that’s what you’re implying. We believe ABC is morally wrong, just as the Church does, and we are living that out.” Is it their business? No. But in our current situation where most Catholic couples are contracepting, then I think it’s important for them to know there are Catholics out there who think contraception is wrong and are actually willing to live that out in their lives. We need such examples of people willing to show this kind of faithfulness and trust in God, because they can inspire others to do the same. Believe me, there are plenty of examples within our own Church of people openly criticizing and defying the Church’s teaching on ABC. Who is going to counter them? It has to come from somewhere–from the clergy, yes, but also from those who are living out the faith in a way that can inspire others to do the same.
 
Thank you! Bless you. :clapping:

Nothing steams me more than those who assume that a family with three or more kids is “real Catholic” and those with fewer kids are contracepting.
Most people have the vocation of marriage. Some have the vocation of being a priest or a deacon or a brother or a sister. For those of us that are married, all we are called to do is be open to life. Some will have lots of kids, some will have a few, some will have one, some will have none. And none of that matters as long as we are open to life (and that means no ABC). We leave the rest up to God.
 
Mathematically speaking, there certainly IS a correlation between NFP use and family size. That’s where the joke comes from that says, “What do you call a woman who uses NFP? …Mommy” 😦 Look at it this way. Whether or not you are faithful to catholic teaching, there are always going to be a certain percentage of people who are either not able to have children at all, or only able to have one or 2 children. Being open to life isn’t going to make these people more likely to have more children (duh), and having an ABC mentality probably isn’t going to change much for this group of people either. So the difference is in the group of people who do not have fertility difficulties. The NFP crowd IS going to choose to have (or allow to have) more children than the ABC crowd. Not every family of course, there are reasons other than medical necessity that would make an NFP’er stop having children. But I guarantee if you took a large random sample of married families who follow church teaching, and then a random sample of families who do not, there WILL be more children in the first group.

That said, Kage-AR and the others are also correct. There are a significant # of faithful Catholics who have small families. And it would be hypocritical and judgemental (not to mention mean and unfair) to dare to judge an individual family based on the number of children they have. Just as it would by rediculous to assume that every large family is faithful and orthodox. I personally know large families who also are just fine with the use of ABC. These generalizations only have merit with large groups of many families.
 
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