Where are the excommunications?

  • Thread starter Thread starter PiousTemplar
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
P

PiousTemplar

Guest
Where are they these days? I just don’t understand! We have politicians that are ‘catholic’ then fully accept abortion, and various other crimes against humanity. We also non-catholic celebrities and various other political figures going up the isles to receive Holy Communion.

Where are the obvious excommunications on these people? Why don’t the Bishops publicly denounce these actions and literally say ‘These people are excommunicated for so-and-so’?

Sorry If I am out of line here, I just find it hard to accept we see these people time and time again, with no disciplinary action done against them. Thoughts?
 
Because the bishops must be guided by both a sense of charity and of pastoral concern for the politicians in question.
 
The Catholic Church founded by our Lord Jesus Christ does not exist to excommunicate people. He gave us His entire Body, whole and unbroken, for a unity like the angels. When we begin demanding excommunicatory blood for the sake of satisfaction, what have we fallen into? Doesn’t the Church have its grounding in faith, hope, and charity? Why can’t the Church simply privately instruct these politicians, telling them that they are wrong? It is correct, right, and just.

I certainly wouldn’t want Communion refused to me in front of hundreds of people because the bishop knew I had just masturbated! What sort of murder is abortion, compared to the murder that is selfishness? Every single sin does unto death, whether the sinner or those innocents affected by the sin. Our holy Church is here to guide, teach, and shepherd. Let them be condemned in private meetings with their pastors, bishops, and even cardinals. Why not?
 
Well, the people so doing have actually excommunicated themselves for starters. It’s not right for a bishop to ‘declare’ somebody excommunicated if it’s not really the bishop’s doing but the person’s own.

Secondly, to do so would, in this day and age of lack of respect for authority in general, and religious authority in particular, make martyrs (for their supporters) out of those being excommunicated. It would be another case of the big bad church picking on people who want their civil liberties to trump revealed truth.

Remember, a lot of those excommunicated or even ‘counselled’ are honestly convinced they are in the right and the Church isn’t. They would very likely try to score points by presenting themselves for communion, and/or kicking up a big stink in other ways - protests and whatnot.
 
We’re not talking about some private sin here. At most Masses, someone probably takes Communion who has recently sinned. When a politician publicly promotes abortion or homosexual ‘marraiges’, that’s publicly breaking with the Church. Of course heretics think they’re right. An excommunication says to the heretic, and everyone, you’re not only wrong, but you’re publicly leading many others to sin.
 
svid2 said:
We’re not talking about some private sin here. At most Masses, someone probably takes Communion who has recently sinned. When a politician publicly promotes abortion or homosexual ‘marraiges’, that’s publicly breaking with the Church. Of course heretics think they’re right. An excommunication says to the heretic, and everyone, you’re not only wrong, but you’re publicly leading many others to sin.
Click to expand...
The point being that those who care about it know already, and no amount of excommunication is going to make the point to those who disagree, or even those who don’t care enough to have already learned what the Church teaches from authoritative sources. Such action is more likely than ever, if the point is pressed, to induce people to protest and make folk heroes of the excommunicate.

The last thing anyone needs is for the likes of Pelosi and Cuomo to score more PR points against the Church, or for our poor Bishops to be reviled even more by the uneducated than they are at present.

In other words an excommunication is now far less likely than ever to achieve any good, and far more likely than ever to do real harm to all involved, by hardening the unrepentant in their attitudes for starters.
 
Ok, I apologise, I was out of line. But what I should of mentioned is: Yes, if they are Catholic and push the pro-choice agenda, they have already been excommunicated latae sententiae, but most of them don’t know this, out of ignorance. Perhaps instead of what I first mentioned is that the Bishop should publicly say that supporting abortion and taking Holy Communion results in excommunication, rather than the names. The incident repeats, time and time again, simply because of ignorance.

Again, I apologise.
 
Wikipedia has a list of people excommunicated from Catholicism. The list is ordered from the first to the twenty-first centuries.

In modern times, one entry is:

Members of multiple organizations in the Roman Catholic Diocese of Lincoln, Nebraska were excommunicated by Bishop Fabian Bruskewitz in March 1996 for promoting positions he deemed “totally incompatible with the Catholic faith”.[2] The organizations include Call to Action, Catholics for a Free Choice, Planned Parenthood, the Hemlock Society, the Freemasons, and the Society of St. Pius X. The Vatican later confirmed the excommunication of Call to Action members in November 2006

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_excommunicated_by_the_Roman_Catholic_Church

Apparently, excommunication is alive within the Church.
 
Because the Catholic Church, like most other Christian groups, has lost its fire and its self-confidence, and thus wants to appear nice, loving, and politically correct as much as possible.

But it needs the Lord to revive her fire and reclaim the mission it undertook to spread the message of Christ around the world, unapologetically.
 
MtnDwellar said:
Wikipedia has a list of people excommunicated from

Apparently, excommunication is alive within the Church.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately it is the bishops and priests being excommunicated and not those making policies
 
hn160 said:
kylemccloughan;8123436:
Our pastor does not have any qualms about refusing communion to people living in sin, such as homosexuals or straight couples living together not married or not members of the LC-MS. If he knew that a person supported abortion, he wouldn’t commune them either.
I could never figure out how Nancy Pelosi, Ted Kennedy and other politicians that supported abortion and gay marriage could receive communion in the Catholic Church.
Click to expand...
That’s exactly what I am trying to say, thanks.
Click to expand...
 
PiousTemplar said:
Ok, I apologise, I was out of line. But what I should of mentioned is: Yes, if they are Catholic and push the pro-choice agenda, they have already been excommunicated latae sententiae, but most of them don’t know this, out of ignorance. Perhaps instead of what I first mentioned is that the Bishop should publicly say that supporting abortion and taking Holy Communion results in excommunication, rather than the names. The incident repeats, time and time again, simply because of ignorance.

Again, I apologise.
Click to expand...
I don’t think you were out of line. It’s good sometimes to have a righteous anger:yup: Jesus did. Practicing lack of discipline and allowing heresy cheapens the faith. But I think a private meeting and warnings would be in order first.

I also remember during the Bush-Kerry race where certain Catholic politicians including Kerry were warned not to present themselves for Communion. So it does happen…-Bush was actually a pretty good “Catholic values” President -and he’s Methodist!:o
 
PiousTemplar said:
Where are they these days? I just don’t understand! We have politicians that are ‘catholic’ then fully accept abortion, and various other crimes against humanity. We also non-catholic celebrities and various other political figures going up the isles to receive Holy Communion.

Where are the obvious excommunications on these people? Why don’t the Bishops publicly denounce these actions and literally say ‘These people are excommunicated for so-and-so’?

Sorry If I am out of line here, I just find it hard to accept we see these people time and time again, with no disciplinary action done against them. Thoughts?
Click to expand...
So many are leaving the Catholic Church on their own, many Catholics don’t agree or even understand Catholic Church teachings- would too many have to be excommunicated?
 
schaick said:
So many are leaving the Catholic Church on their own, many Catholics don’t agree or even understand Catholic Church teachings- would too many have to be excommunicated?
Click to expand...
The Church would be better off without the termites and the Potemkin “Catholics”, along with their tainted money.
How much more scandal do we peasants in the pews have to put up with? 😦

Those obstinate politicians (Theyre numerous in this country, as well.) have made a laughing stock of the Church. How much more "charity and pastoral concern" do they "need" to be shown? For a change, itd be great to have the odd scrap thrown our way.
 
Fink said:
The Church would be better off without the termites and the Potemkin “Catholics”, along with their tainted money.
How much more scandal do we peasants in the pews have to put up with? 😦

Those obstinate politicians (Theyre numerous in this country, as well.) have made a laughing stock of the Church. How much more "charity and pastoral concern" do they "need" to be shown? For a change, itd be great to have the odd scrap thrown our way.
Click to expand...
I doubt if uncharitably referring to them as termites will help much in returning them to the faithful flock. What human being would want to be part of something where others call them termites. 🤷 I know it would turn me away even more.
 
Fink said:
The Church would be better off without the termites and the Potemkin “Catholics”, along with their tainted money.
How much more scandal do we peasants in the pews have to put up with? 😦

Those obstinate politicians (Theyre numerous in this country, as well.) have made a laughing stock of the Church. How much more "charity and pastoral concern" do they "need" to be shown? For a change, itd be great to have the odd scrap thrown our way.
Click to expand...
Put up with!? Are you kidding?

You and I are both sinners and have no right aproaching the altar of God’s mercy. We don’t even deserve to be alive but for God’s love for us. Who are we to demand that others be excommunicated when we ourselves deserve to be thrown into hell for all eternity for our sins?

And what if they were excommunicated? What good would that do us. How would that help you or I to be a saint and to get into heaven? We are dogs, unfit to eat the scraps off Jesus’ table. How is anyone being excommunicated “Throwning a scrap” to me?

If we worried half as much about our own sins and made half as much effort to live a life of virtue as we spent time and effort worrying and complainng about the sins of others, we would be a church full of saints and no secular politician would be able to stand up to us.

Anyone who demands punishment of another for their sins might want to duck and take cover.

-Tim-
 
You ahve a good point. Not standing by justified convictions and holding up the rules is a significant loss. The person in question missed a teaching opportunity as well as the larger congregation. I’m not suggesting it be handeled in public, in the middle of mass, but neither should standards be ignored completely.
 
TimothyH said:
Put up with!? Are you kidding?

You and I are both sinners and have no right aproaching the altar of God’s mercy. We don’t even deserve to be alive but for God’s love for us. Who are we to demand that others be excommunicated when we ourselves deserve to be thrown into hell for all eternity for our sins?

And what if they were excommunicated? What good would that do us. How would that help you or I to be a saint and to get into heaven? We are dogs, unfit to eat the scraps off Jesus’ table. How is anyone being excommunicated “Throwning a scrap” to me?

If we worried half as much about our own sins and made half as much effort to live a life of virtue as we spent time and effort worrying and complainng about the sins of others, we would be a church full of saints and no secular politician would be able to stand up to us.

Anyone who demands punishment of another for their sins might want to duck and take cover.

-Tim-
Click to expand...
Please explain to me when you feel it’s okay for church discipline to be administered. I’m not trying to be confrontational, it’s just that based on my impressions of this you feel nobody has a right to be disappointed when they are receiving communion right beside Andrew Cuomo who stands directly opposed to the Church’s teachings.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top