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Beaver
Guest
There are plenty of good men. We have try to enter but were reject because we were to orthodox.
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Shoshana
Guest
Code:
What horrified me the most (if that is possible) is the fact that they even taught cultish material and allowed leaders of demonic cults to teach the seminarians. This broke my heart. I understand that priests would need to learn the different cults out but only in a healthy perspective (in a Catholic setting… teaching it to forewarn them of these exiting activities and how to deal with them).
I cannot even understand how the gay undercurrent was so strong that it ended up ruling the atmosphere in the seminary. Not only does a seminarain have to deal with this but also from the secular society who jeer at all priests being gay and molesters. It is an attack that is inside out. Our Enemy is having a riot with all of this. If anybody is certainly attacked, it would be our priests and would-be priests.
Beaver, you are right. You could not be too liberal, but being too orthodox was anathema to the ‘management’.
Blessings,
Shoshana
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flick427
Guest
Andreas Hofer:
You know, that is actually a good point really and it doesn’t sound chauvanistic at all. When I was an alter server, I looked up to the priest and respected him. It is that “I wanna be like dad when I grow up” way of thinking. When you are serving at the alter you get that feeling like you are really helping out in a way that benefits the rest of the people and that can get the “vocations wheels” moving for many people though it may not be direct, it has an impact. It’d be near impossible to figue out, but I wonder what percentage of priest were alter servers and what percentage of alter servers actually became priest/religious?
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asquared
Guest
Where have all the flowers gone? The good men have disappeared because society, including Catholic families and parishes, place no value on goodness and do not raise good young men. We do not value chastity, manliness, self-reliance, taking responsibility for actions, virtue, strength of character, self-discipline, self-control, selflessness–all the characteristics that make good husbands and good priests. Celibacy is not the issue. Virtue is the issue. Manhood is the issue. This is a society of overgrown adolescents, “men behaving badly” is the norm and the group that is catered to. Catholic families play along with the culture, endorsing premarital sex of all varieties and the parishes play along, granting huge church weddings to couples that have been living together for years (and contracepting). Catholic men desert their families and divorce their wives at the same rate as others in this society, and for the same reasons–they are not real men, they are driven by impulse and self-gratification (like any 4-year-old). We will get good priests and good Catholic husbands and fathers when we start raising good men. You want to start? Try discipline.
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KCT
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Mjohn1453
Guest
T.A.Stobie, S.F.O. has really hit the nail on the head.
God has blessed my diocese of St. Paul and Minneapolis with 75 seminarians this coming year. That number is as high as it was 50 years ago. Not only is the quantity there, but they are deeply spiritual men who love the Church and love the priesthood. Many people in the diocese credit this large and increasing number of vocations in this diocese to a strong example of the priesthood in their parish priests, their families, the effort of the archbishop, and 24 hour adoration. Of these, many believe that 24 adoration is the real key. My diocese has over 40 perpetual adoration chapels currently with 30 more in the process of getting approval. That is a lot of faithful Catholics praying, and a lot of those prayers are for an increase of vocations, married and religious.
It isn’t just one issue that is the cause of the decline in seminarians and priests. Nor do I think that any of your options in the poll are a reflection of the true reasons behind the decline. I think that they are stereotyped, easy-to-latch-onto soundbytes that are based on peoples misconceptions, which is why I was so glad see the list that he compiled.
God has blessed my diocese of St. Paul and Minneapolis with 75 seminarians this coming year. That number is as high as it was 50 years ago. Not only is the quantity there, but they are deeply spiritual men who love the Church and love the priesthood. Many people in the diocese credit this large and increasing number of vocations in this diocese to a strong example of the priesthood in their parish priests, their families, the effort of the archbishop, and 24 hour adoration. Of these, many believe that 24 adoration is the real key. My diocese has over 40 perpetual adoration chapels currently with 30 more in the process of getting approval. That is a lot of faithful Catholics praying, and a lot of those prayers are for an increase of vocations, married and religious.
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buffalo
Guest
Could it be that orthodox seminaries, schools and dioceses have 24 hour perpetual adoration as a result? Or areas that have perpetual 24 hour adoration are orthodox as a result?
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Mjohn1453
Guest
I don’t think that it is a question of orthodoxy. Rather it is a matter of fidelity to the Church and love of the Church.
As for what is driving the 24 hour adoration. I think that it truly is the Holy Spirit working in this diocese. People here are hungry for the truth. Maybe we have woken up here, more than the rest of the country, and realized that modernity and materialism aren’t the answers and that they aren’t going to make us happy.
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T.A.Stobie_SFO
Guest
Adoration does wonders for a diocese.
Try to get adoration in a parish near you. Where parishes as close together they can start sharing an adoration chapel and build additional ones as the demand warrents it. Get the people involved and start praying for the diocese, its bishops its priests, its problems, seminarians, its parishes, its laity, the pope, and the church as a whole.
Try to get adoration in a parish near you. Where parishes as close together they can start sharing an adoration chapel and build additional ones as the demand warrents it. Get the people involved and start praying for the diocese, its bishops its priests, its problems, seminarians, its parishes, its laity, the pope, and the church as a whole.
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buffalo
Guest
Isn’t that what orthodoxy is? Fidelity and love to the truth of Catholicism?
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Mjohn1453
Guest
In the strict sense of the word orthodox would be correct. But that isn’t what I wanted to say. Institutions can be orthodox while the people are spiritually dead. But it is the fact that the people posess this fidelity and charity that is the driving part of this revival of Catholic life here.
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buffalo
Guest
We’re on the same page. I was including those in orthodoxy.
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firemnbob
Guest
I have a 13 y.o. son whom I have spoken to about the priesthood. He was at first reluctant, but with SOME slight prodding, he agreed to attend some summer camps and retreats. Since that time, he has, at the very least, opened himself up for the message fo God. I think a lot of the problems with vocations stems from a lack of parental support. I do not care one way or another whether he becomes a priest, but at least I am trying to give him an option. That is where too many fathers fail their children. Just give them the option and let the Lord speak to them. 
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Dolores49
Guest
Here is an article of HOPE for good men.
Source URL: www.latimes.com
A New Breed of Priest
Marcos Gonzalez, like others ordained under Pope John Paul II, is devoutly conservative, a stark contrast with those of the Vatican II era.
By Teresa Watanabe, LA Times Staff Writer
July 31, 2004
It’s hard to miss Father Marcos Gonzalez, who wears an ankle-length black cassock every day, a garment most priests tossed out decades ago. But it’s not just his clothes that bespeak an older, more traditional era of his Roman Catholic Church.
When some priests spoke in favor of optional celibacy at a Los Angeles priest assembly last year — a position supported by most American Catholics today — Gonzalez booed in dissent. In premarital counseling, he tells couples to remain chaste until marriage, plunging into delicate territory some priests prefer to avoid. Gonzalez also believes artificial birth control and gay sex are always a sin and opposes women’s ordination.
Such stances conform with Vatican teachings, he says, but are at odds with many American priests and lay people.
Yet Gonzalez, an associate pastor at St. Andrew Church in Pasadena, is hardly a relic from a fading past. At 41, he offers one glimpse of the future as a member of a new breed of younger priests ordained during the 25-year papacy of Pope John Paul II and passionately committed to the pope’s orthodox teachings.
As the health of John Paul — now 84 and the third-longest serving pontiff in history — continues to falter, men like Gonzalez stand ready to guard and propagate his legacy. They represent a global trend toward Christian orthodoxy, in contrast to a generation of more liberal priests ordained during the 1960s reforms of the Second Vatican Council.
“We are very, very faithful to the Holy Father and not in any way dissenting from the teachings of the church,” Gonzalez says of like-minded colleagues.
The emergence of these young conservatives has set off a flurry of studies, books and debate about what effect they will have on the nation’s 62 million Roman Catholics, its largest religious denomination.
Father Richard John Neuhaus, president of the conservative Institute on Religion and Public Life, says the new breed will reinvigorate the church with youthful enthusiasm, “radical devotion” and a willingness to proclaim church teachings without equivocation.
Others, however, see troublesome times ahead. Dean Hoge, a sociologist at Catholic University of America in Washington, sees a potential clash between younger priests’ emphasis on the pope’s authority and younger laity’s view of themselves as fit to make their own moral choices.
Linda Pieczynski, national spokeswoman for the liberal Catholic reform group Call to Action, said that in parishes across the country, young conservatives have reportedly adopted an old-style “father knows best” attitude and made abrupt changes without adequate consultation with lay members. Women lay ministers in particular say many newly ordained priests have difficulty accepting them as colleagues, showing a lack of respect and excessive concern for power and authority, according to a 2001 study by the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops.
Although the young conservatives are still some years away from becoming candidates for bishop, they are beginning to move into the ranks of pastor, where their orthodoxy may drive parish policy changes.
According to Hoge, priests ordained during John Paul’s papacy now make up 32% of the nation’s 43,600 Roman Catholic priests. Not all of them reflect the trend toward orthodoxy.
In general, however, the “John Paul priests” are less supportive than older colleagues of optional celibacy, women priests, the democratic elections of bishops and greater lay leadership, according to numerous surveys.
Source URL: www.latimes.com
A New Breed of Priest
Marcos Gonzalez, like others ordained under Pope John Paul II, is devoutly conservative, a stark contrast with those of the Vatican II era.
By Teresa Watanabe, LA Times Staff Writer
July 31, 2004
It’s hard to miss Father Marcos Gonzalez, who wears an ankle-length black cassock every day, a garment most priests tossed out decades ago. But it’s not just his clothes that bespeak an older, more traditional era of his Roman Catholic Church.
When some priests spoke in favor of optional celibacy at a Los Angeles priest assembly last year — a position supported by most American Catholics today — Gonzalez booed in dissent. In premarital counseling, he tells couples to remain chaste until marriage, plunging into delicate territory some priests prefer to avoid. Gonzalez also believes artificial birth control and gay sex are always a sin and opposes women’s ordination.
Such stances conform with Vatican teachings, he says, but are at odds with many American priests and lay people.
Yet Gonzalez, an associate pastor at St. Andrew Church in Pasadena, is hardly a relic from a fading past. At 41, he offers one glimpse of the future as a member of a new breed of younger priests ordained during the 25-year papacy of Pope John Paul II and passionately committed to the pope’s orthodox teachings.
As the health of John Paul — now 84 and the third-longest serving pontiff in history — continues to falter, men like Gonzalez stand ready to guard and propagate his legacy. They represent a global trend toward Christian orthodoxy, in contrast to a generation of more liberal priests ordained during the 1960s reforms of the Second Vatican Council.
“We are very, very faithful to the Holy Father and not in any way dissenting from the teachings of the church,” Gonzalez says of like-minded colleagues.
The emergence of these young conservatives has set off a flurry of studies, books and debate about what effect they will have on the nation’s 62 million Roman Catholics, its largest religious denomination.
Father Richard John Neuhaus, president of the conservative Institute on Religion and Public Life, says the new breed will reinvigorate the church with youthful enthusiasm, “radical devotion” and a willingness to proclaim church teachings without equivocation.
Others, however, see troublesome times ahead. Dean Hoge, a sociologist at Catholic University of America in Washington, sees a potential clash between younger priests’ emphasis on the pope’s authority and younger laity’s view of themselves as fit to make their own moral choices.
Linda Pieczynski, national spokeswoman for the liberal Catholic reform group Call to Action, said that in parishes across the country, young conservatives have reportedly adopted an old-style “father knows best” attitude and made abrupt changes without adequate consultation with lay members. Women lay ministers in particular say many newly ordained priests have difficulty accepting them as colleagues, showing a lack of respect and excessive concern for power and authority, according to a 2001 study by the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops.
Although the young conservatives are still some years away from becoming candidates for bishop, they are beginning to move into the ranks of pastor, where their orthodoxy may drive parish policy changes.
According to Hoge, priests ordained during John Paul’s papacy now make up 32% of the nation’s 43,600 Roman Catholic priests. Not all of them reflect the trend toward orthodoxy.
In general, however, the “John Paul priests” are less supportive than older colleagues of optional celibacy, women priests, the democratic elections of bishops and greater lay leadership, according to numerous surveys.
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Shoshana
Guest
That is exactly why the poll was done. It is what you hear out there. No depth to it at all. If you would’ve read my response to Stobie’s poll, you would’ve seen that I was very grateful for his (name removed by moderator)ut and MAYBE I should’ve consulted him first.
Blesisngs,
Shoshana
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asquared
Guest
I had the pleasure of meeting some of your seminarians from St.Paul at MACC in San Antonio, where they were sent to learn pastoral Spanish. We freaked out with the institution’s version of morning and evening prayer (one morning we had a rip-off of a native american ceremony blowing smoke in the four cardinal directions), so we banded together with some very lovely habit-wearing nuns for LOTH and rosary. Guys, I am still praying for you, as I promised. Minnesota is blessed.
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deogratias
Guest
T.A. Stobies list was excellent.
I did not vote in the poll because it had too limited choices.
I would only add that I think the use of Female Altar Servers is a deterrent to young men aspiring to the priesthood.
and that our “me first” society doses not inspire the sacrifice required for vocations.
I did not vote in the poll because it had too limited choices.
I would only add that I think the use of Female Altar Servers is a deterrent to young men aspiring to the priesthood.
and that our “me first” society doses not inspire the sacrifice required for vocations.
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Tellstar
Guest
In my opinion the reason we arent seeing many good men stepping up is the lack of a consistent, strong church that speaks with authority on issues. In recent decades, the church seems to think that being wishy washy on important matters is the best way to attract parishoners, obviously the opposite is true. Our religion is compromising on so many things that it is difficult to see what we still stand for, if anything. How can we blame others for not stepping up to help lead when we have no direction for them to lead us in?
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Mjohn1453
Guest
I think that another reason is that our Church isn’t being supressed. The Church and vocations are flourishing in places were Catholics are repressed.
Though, as mainstream culture becomes more and more at odds with the Church, and tolerance of Catholics decreases, and our views and teachings become under attack we will again begin to see an increase in fidelity of the faithful and ultimately even an increase in vocations. I think that we are already seeing that response in parts of the country where people with a strong ethical and moral sense are finding themselves under attack by the modern world. I think that this could explain why the upper midwest is doing so much better, than the rest of the country, vocation wise.
Though, as mainstream culture becomes more and more at odds with the Church, and tolerance of Catholics decreases, and our views and teachings become under attack we will again begin to see an increase in fidelity of the faithful and ultimately even an increase in vocations. I think that we are already seeing that response in parts of the country where people with a strong ethical and moral sense are finding themselves under attack by the modern world. I think that this could explain why the upper midwest is doing so much better, than the rest of the country, vocation wise.
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Panis_Angelicas
Guest
Mike C:
The vocations that are on the rise don’t mince words about what the priesthood is: a life of service, in imitation of Christ.
Those dioceses who find vocations lacking often use the wrong recruitment tactics ~ materialistic ones. They portray the priesthood as a career choice with great benefits, such as health care, vacation leave, etc. Come on now, is that really what would attract a man to the priesthood?! Is it any wonder that priests who do become ordained in these dioceses become disillusioned after a few years and take leaves of absence?
This is an excellent point.
The vocations that are on the rise don’t mince words about what the priesthood is: a life of service, in imitation of Christ.
Those dioceses who find vocations lacking often use the wrong recruitment tactics ~ materialistic ones. They portray the priesthood as a career choice with great benefits, such as health care, vacation leave, etc. Come on now, is that really what would attract a man to the priesthood?! Is it any wonder that priests who do become ordained in these dioceses become disillusioned after a few years and take leaves of absence?
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