Where are the humanitarian values within capitalism?

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Capitalism, or more specifically, the Free Market System’s humanitarian value is primarily that it betters the welfare of the poor by creating system for the widespread creation of wealth. Just look at the countries that adopt Free Market Systems (the west) and those with Communist/Hard socialist systems such as Soviet Russia, Mao’s China, and modern North Korea.
The wealth disparity is huge. Even so-called “Socialist” countries in the West such as Sweden allow for massive free markets -though it has a large welfare state.

Today’s Middle Class household lives in luxury and comfort equal to or greater than the Pharaohs and Kings of old.
Example: If Pharaoh Ramses wanted some cool air he had to get 2 or more slaves to fan him with large feathers or if King George III wanted some music he had to bring in a group of court musicians. Ramses had to take his servants everywhere he went if he wanted to remain cool constantly and for King George, moving an entire quartet, let alone an orchestra perfuming a concerto, was difficult if not outright impossible.

Now, if we want to be cool we can turn on the air conditioner or, if outside, buy one of those neat little “spray-fan things”. And with the iPod you can take an entire Orchestra with you.

And most cell phones allow you to carry the equivalent of a phone, a watch, an alarm clock, and a computer in your pocket anywhere. Just think how much this saves in packing for an overnight trip!

In fact, the poor of today live much better than the poor of 100 or 200 years ago. And this isn’t because of government welfare, but because the free market system has developed ways to produce better goods cheaper and more efficiently than ever before. And while I am not saying poverty is good or easy what I am saying is that the poor of today are better off than they would have been centuries ago.

Now, as for greed.

For Free Market supporters in the Classical Liberal mold such as Adam Smith, F.A. Hayek. Milton Friedman, and Thomas Sowell today acknowledge greed and the human’s inclination to look after their own self-interest or the self-interest of their families exist.
But it should be noted that this exists in EVERY system. Everyone has the natural inclination to act in their self-interest. People everywhere do this whether he is a businessman or a bureaucrat.
What a Free Market does is, instead of trying to eliminate this impulse, is try to channel it in a way that it helps society or does the least harm.

In summary, here is a quote by Milton Friedman:

“What kind of society isn’t structured on greed? The problem of social organization is how to set up an arrangement under which greed will do the least harm; capitalism is that kind of a system”

And Adam Smith: “It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own self-interest. We address ourselves not to their humanity but to their self-love, and never talk to them of our own necessities, but of their advantages”
 
I find it curious that the discussion has completely gone to health care. “Humanitarian values” concerns more than just our hospitals.
I think healthcare can be taken as a microcosm thereof.
 
Or, do we need a form of socialism to achieve these values?

One argument that I hear is that with capitalism, giving to humanitarian causes is a personal thing, but what happens when nobody gives? Better to ingrain humanitarianism within societies’ system of values.

“One people, one planet, don’t take your brother for granted!”
The greatest advantage of a free market is that it leaves individuals free to pursue humanitarian ends.

Imagine a truly Catholic country with a minimalist Gov’t (covers only national defense, foregn affairs, law and order, and guarantees basic rights, e.g. anti-trust, right of labor to organize).

All the other resources spent by gov’t (often in immoral ways) would be available to the people to aid the poor, and promote humanitarian concerns.

The failure of the free market to deliver just ends is a failing of the people, not the system.

God Bless
 
“The greatest advantage of a free market is that it leaves individuals free to pursue humanitarian ends.”

Or not too.

And that’s the beauty of it. And by their freedom to be generous or stingy their generosity becomes so much greater.
 
Or, do we need a form of socialism to achieve these values?

One argument that I hear is that with capitalism, giving to humanitarian causes is a personal thing, but what happens when nobody gives? Better to ingrain humanitarianism within societies’ system of values.

“One people, one planet, don’t take your brother for granted!”
I’m sort of lazy, and altho I would not mind paying a higher tax rate, I become a maniac when doing taxes, looking for every deduction I can possibly find (which does not include charitable giving, since we’ve paid off our home mortgage and don’t do Schedule A anymore). It’s like a Jekyll/hyde or Mr.Walker/Mr.Wheeler transformation – if you want a good comic relief see Motor Mania starring Goofy at youtube.com/watch?v=0ZgiVicpZGk.

However, heart of hearts I really do care about others, so the best solution in my mind is to have a semi-socialistic form of economy, like those in Europe, that allow for biz entrepreneurship, but maybe one that is better in not letting welfare queens take advantage of the system (tho I realize it could never be totally perfect). In other words, one in which people in need are taken care of by the gov (my taxes). Also, unlike some European countries, I’d keep our bankruptcy laws in case a business fails, but with some safeguards against allowing for flagrantly risky entrepreneurs producing nothing of redeeming value from declaring bankruptcy. Also one that immedicately ends ALL subsidies and tax-breaks to big biz, such as the fossil fuel companies, that produce negatives that harm us well into the future. Restructure our farm subsidies to promote rather than harm our health, and help small farmers as much as, if not more than, helping those huge agribusinesses that harm the environment and our health. An economy that uses tax money to rebuild faulty and dangerous infrastructure and implementing adaptation to increasing risks as from climate change (building higher levees and storm wall & berms, etc), thereby putting more people to work and preventing very expensive and harmful hazardous outcomes in the future.

A big problem with living in a heartless capitalistic society such as our America society, we ourselves tend to become heartless. There are ideologues who are so ideologically against helping those in need that they would never consider raising (or even keeping) taxes for needy people and consider those people to be evil and lazy, totally unworthy of our help, but wouldn’t blink an eye about increasing spending for the military. In fact it seems some would even promote going to useless wars in order to run up a really high debt so that later they can say there is no money for the poor. It’s not about the money, it’s about the ideology, and they seem willing to pay more not to have the poor & needy get a penny. The same ideologues may be against abortion, but also against helping babies & their families once they are born. Not sure of the motives; it’s either to get the votes of true pro-lifers, and/or maybe they just want more expendable soldiers from poor families to go and fight the wars to ensure the poor don’t get any money.

It’s hard to say what the motives and ideas might be, only that a relatively heartless society – such as the U.S. when compared to Europe or even to Cost Rica (which ranks above us in healthcare) – tends to produce heartless people terribly concerned about making and keeping their own wealth, without helping or even acknowledging those in need of our help. It’s like we want to do good and be good, but our social system of greed and selfishness tends to draw us into its evil – like Mr. Wheeler getting behind the wheel.

That’s the type of person our society tends to produce, against which we Christian church-goers struggle to defeat within ourselves.
 
Other things being equal, capitalism usually results in greater surpluses, allowing humantarian contributions (time, material, money).
 
Other things being equal, capitalism usually results in greater surpluses, allowing humantarian contributions (time, material, money).
And yet we have a BIG problem with homelessness here in America! Where’s the humanitarianism in that?
 
And yet we have a BIG problem with homelessness here in America! Where’s the humanitarianism in that?
I am not so sure it’s as big a problem as you think. We have, what 325 million people in our country.

There’s also 2 related issues. To the extent that people have been trained to think that the government is an arm of charity (clearly a wrong headed idea …since charity cannot possibly be done by the government) then they lower their guard…believing that "well surely the government is doing all they can do…someone is on the job certainly (! ?).

And related…to the extent that 55 percent of many people’s earnings are in some way syphoned off as taxes, this removes the “surplus”.
 
I am not so sure it’s as big a problem as you think. We have, what 325 million people in our country.

There’s also 2 related issues. To the extent that people have been trained to think that the government is an arm of charity (clearly a wrong headed idea …since charity cannot possibly be done by the government) then they lower their guard…believing that "well surely the government is doing all they can do…someone is on the job certainly (! ?).

And related…to the extent that 55 percent of many people’s earnings are in some way syphoned off as taxes, this removes the “surplus”.
When you see them walking down the street with a shopping cart, it seems to be a BIG problem. The sheer number of homeless people is not negligible. Only the humanitarian value of LOVE will put an end to this extreme poverty.
 
And yet we have a BIG problem with homelessness here in America! Where’s the humanitarianism in that?
And also capitalism’s disregard for life on earth in it’s greedy pursuits without regard for pollution and greenhouse gas emissions – which could end up causing/triggering the annihilation of most, perhaps even all life on earth.

Maybe it’s good to distinguish between whatever capitalism-like system may have been operating in past history (there have been small businesses based on hand-made products), and modern, industrial capitalism, with huge multinational corporations ruling the earth and controlling the governments and our minds/hearts through the media, our educational system, and our churches. Ever wonder why you don’t hear much about social justice issues in our local parishes, or it’s watered down pablum regardless of BXVI’s “Caritas et Veritate”? Parish councils usually have some folks working for or connected to those multinational corps. The churches know who puts the most money in the collection plates.

One way to look at it is those multinationals are like monsters going around devouring resources and polluting the environment, and excreting products and more pollution. They don’t have hearts or souls, tho the U.S. has granted them status as persons, with all the rights as persons. Their only motive is profits. In fact they can be sued for “fiduciary irresponsibility” if they do not pursue profits in a heartless manner. They can’t die the way real persons die, and if put out-of-business from lawsuits for some egregious harms they have committed, they have ways of hiding their capital elsewhere, then resurrecting under a different name/persona. In other words, they can resurrect or reincarnate.

They control our gov (including the military), having bought and paid for the politicians on both sides of the aisle. And as mentioned they have bought and paid for the media, educational system (even public universities are highly funded by multinationals, as state lawmakers shrink funding of their universities), and our churches. They pretty much control our minds and souls, unless we seek the truth “outside of the box” and truly follow Jesus in charity and truth.
 
When you see them walking down the street with a shopping cart, it seems to be a BIG problem. The sheer number of homeless people is not negligible. Only the humanitarian value of LOVE will put an end to this extreme poverty.
I see them often but that doesn’t make them a big problem. Agree only love, not government.

Government can’t be a channel for love. Love involves free gift, self-donation; compulsory giving isn’t charity. And it’s further weakened in that the act is very indirect.

Compulsory creates, not gratitude and humility among the participants, but resentment and entitlement.
 
Compulsory creates, not gratitude and humility among the participants, but resentment and entitlement.
I tend to agree with the last statement. Those receiving aid have got to have LOVE in their hearts.
 
I tend to agree with the last statement. Those receiving aid have got to have LOVE in their hearts.
Yes…the Holy Spirit is not part of government giving or benefits received. Out of the loop. So none of the fruits of the Holy Spirit. No joy, no gratitude, no humility, peace, etc,
 
Yes…the Holy Spirit is not part of government giving or benefits received. Out of the loop. So none of the fruits of the Holy Spirit. No joy, no gratitude, no humility, peace, etc,
I’m receiving government assistance for my mental disability and I feel most grateful! Without this assistance I would be out in the streets and it scares the heck out of me! Both, my psychologist and psychiatrist agree that I should not be in the workforce.
 
I’m receiving government assistance for my mental disability and I feel most grateful! Without this assistance I would be out in the streets and it scares the heck out of me! Both, my psychologist and psychiatrist agree that I should not be in the workforce.
FDR’s idea, in establishing Social Security, was that there should be a guarantee that our older people would not fall into poverty. This is something that can be done with government policy. There are no guarantees with pure capitalism, other than that some people will get rich, some people will live a life of poverty, and others will be in between those poles.

There is no reason to think that the needs of the poor or disabled will be taken care of in any way, in a purely capitalistic economy. This should be obvious, and is the objection to relying on private charity, entirely.
 
I tend to agree with the last statement. Those receiving aid have got to have LOVE in their hearts.
And those voting to raise taxes or for those who will raise taxes with idea that those funds will be going in to help people (and not kill people thru wars) also have love in their hearts. I always make it a point to vote that way, as my Republican mother also did before me.

I care about my brothers & sisters, and I trust sending my money into the gov more than to various charities that might not be able to really help people as much as the gov can – tho I also give to various charities as well.

Ever since the end of the cold war I have felt very good about paying taxes – as long as they are not going to nukes, etc. Can further efficiencies be found and implemented in our gov? Of course. Would I shut down or down-size gov and send sick people out to die on the road bec of varioius corruptions and inefficiencies here and there? Definitely not!

There are absolutely NO humanitarian values within pure capitalism. To the extent that a capitalistic society is socialistic/democratic (which is not very much for the U.S.) does that country have humanitarian values, and people of that country are also humanitarians for supporting such a helpful (not harmful) government. Our less helpful gov here in the U.S. is a reflection of how mean-spirited we Americans are – despite copious graces bestowed on us. It’s no wonder that our health system rates below that of Costa Rica, and way below those of developed societies, such as those of Europe.
 
Without Capitalism there is no economy, no wealth, no charity, and no socialism.

Western civilization is going bankrupt because a lack of business liberty.
We are killing the milk cow.

With wealth comes jobs and generosity. Without wealth there is only anarchy as the world is finding out. Economies need rules but politicians should be the partners of business and not the bloodsuckers.

Some people are learning. Look at the present economies of China, Cuba, and Canada.
All have made pro-business reforms and are recovering their countries wealth.
 
Life on planet earth is being annihilated because of capitalism and the evils of humanity (if you can call us that), not to mention bankrupt bec of capitalism. Check out esp pg. 24 of columbia.edu/~jeh1/2008/AGUBjerknes_20081217.pdf
Speaking of the devil, I just read this about anthropogenic climate change’s (industrial capitalism’s star child) harm to the economy (tho I’m sure it grossly underestimates the problem, esp well into the future): huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/08/joe-stiglitz-climate-change-economy_n_2432744.html

However, I would still maintain that life is more important than the economy, and the loss of life is a lot more heart-breaking than loss of yatchs and summer homes on Greek islands, etc.
 
Heartless Capitalists? Really? Bet you’re typing that into a computater that was made in China, the world headquarters of laissez-faire Capitalism…The Church condemns radical materialism: laissez-faire Capitalism (look it up) and Communism. That stopping anybody from buying Chinese junk? Blame yourself. The Church is the only international body divinely ordained to give reality to morality and that includes shaping economies. And the tepidity of Christians, the hypocrisy, makes them behave in an almost identical way with non-Christians. Blame yourself. Laissez-faire Capitalism just gave Planned Parenthood a banner year including record profits 1/2 of which were derived from taxpayers. If you’re like so many other Christian voters, blame yourself.
 
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