Where are the men?

[chotock]

I’m glad someone else said this, I posted this earlier that today on T.V. in sitcoms women are typically pretty, smart, funny, and strong, and the men are protrayed as fat, ignorant, worthless, drunkard, lazy bums. Even commercials you have some guy too dumb to change a tire until a woman shows him how to do it. Typically men are depicted as little more than an extra child.

Unfortunetly this about all you see when you go out in public. I don’t know which came first, the flatulance ridden neanderthalic man or the actors who portray them.

Go to a sporting event and watch the crowd, not the game, its atrotious. Or worse, go to any department store. Manners, chivaly, self-respect for crying out loud, poof gone like a cheap beer in a frat house. It disgusts me.

I get called all manner of horrid name because I am polite, chivalrous and compassionate. So what if I prefer to say please and thank you and not belch at the table, or worse.

Want to show a young boy how to be a man, teach some manners. Teach them how to treat other people with respect and courtesy. This bellowing neanderthal, but tolerant and accepting, malarky has our youths all sorts of messed up.

 

[deb1]

Unfortunetly this about all you see when you go out in public. I don’t know which came first, the flatulance ridden neanderthalic man or the actors who portray them.

Go to a sporting event and watch the crowd, not the game, its atrotious. Or worse, go to any department store. Manners, chivaly, self-respect for crying out loud, poof gone like a cheap beer in a frat house. It disgusts me.

I get called all manner of horrid name because I am polite, chivalrous and compassionate. So what if I prefer to say please and thank you and not belch at the table, or worse.

Want to show a young boy how to be a man, teach some manners. Teach them how to treat other people with respect and courtesy. This bellowing neanderthal, but tolerant and accepting, malarky has our youths all sorts of messed up.

But at one point men must have held themselves to a higher standard or at least had a higher ideal.

It is incorrect politically to say so, but much of the art, government and culture of the past was created by men. Did guys suddenly change and if so why, what happened?

 

[Norseman82]

Here is another link to ponder. The author is not Catholic (and might be considered anti-Catholic at times), but it is food for thought on the subject at hand:

jesus-is-savior.com/Books,%20Tracts%20&%20Preaching/Printed%20Books/Dr%20Jack%20Hyles/Children/boy_into_man.htm

 

[Brennan_Doherty]

Not directly to Andrei ('cause you don’t seem to feel this way), but I get the feeling that most of the men on here who are concerned with women in the sanctuary also don’t like the Novus Ordo Mass. Do you feel the TLM is more “manly”? What makes it more manly? What is it liturgically that makes it more manly?

Good question. To answer for myself as to whether I feel the TLM is more manly, I would say a definite yes. The prayers are more doctrinally explicit regarding the Eucharist and thus they are not watered down to be inoffensive. The rubrics and ceremonial are also stronger and more pronounced which I think appeals to men. Think of men who attend ceremonies in the military or other men’s groups. They tend to like uniforms and exact ceremony. Although I would prefer the TLM in the vernacular over the Novus Ordo in Latin, I do think the Latin language adds a certain mystery and appeal for men (and women). I also think the priest facing away from the people can be more appealing to men as it indicates we are all headed in the same direction (towards the Lord and heaven). There is hardly anything more annoying to some men than the complaint that if the Priest turns around he has “his back to the people.” As if we are all little girls who are going to cry and whine if our mommy turns away from us as we cling to her skirt.

Ok, probably the best thing I can do is provide a link to an online video (no charge) of a Traditional Latin Mass narrated by Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen. Just watch some of that and compare it to the typical Novus Ordo and ask yourself what would appeal more to men (and many women too, I’m sure). Here is the link:

 

[PerkyCurlz]

But when did this happen? How did we go from Father Knows Best to Dad’s an incompetent idiot who needs mom to tell him how to run his life?

I don’t know when it happened, but I’m sad that it did. I think the US is worse off for it.

Here is another link to ponder. The author is not Catholic (and might be considered anti-Catholic at times), but it is food for thought on the subject at hand:

jesus-is-savior.com/Books,%20Tracts%20&%20Preaching/Printed%20Books/Dr%20Jack%20Hyles/Children/boy_into_man.htm

While I don’t necessarily agree with all the points in the article, I do agree with most of it. (I think men need to know how to do dishes and laundry and clean - who’s going to do it for them when they leave the house before they get married?) Anyway, the point I’m trying to make is that nobody should blame others for the way things are, but to change things for the better since so many people seem to be unhappy with how things are.

 

[deb1]

Here is another link to ponder. The author is not Catholic (and might be considered anti-Catholic at times), but it is food for thought on the subject at hand:

jesus-is-savior.com/Books,%20Tracts%20&%20Preaching/Printed%20Books/Dr%20Jack%20Hyles/Children/boy_into_man.htm

Some things I strongly agree with, there are a few other points that strongly disagree with him.

His point on winning for example; I do agree that a sport should be played to win. At the same time, you don’t want a child to believe that they should win at all cost. That could lead to immoral behavior.

Also being a southern gal, I hear lots of women calling lots of people, honey and baby. There are many manly southern men who were spoken to in such a manner.

 

[aurora77]

But at one point men must have held themselves to a higher standard or at least had a higher ideal.

It is incorrect politically to say so, but much of the art, government and culture of the past was created by men. Did guys suddenly change and if so why, what happened?

I wonder this too. The Church is still controlled by men, so why do so many men feel left out? Is this an actual trend in real life or just among the men on this board? What went “wrong” and what was the cause? I think women/girls in the sanctuary are a symptom of the problem being discussed–treating that might help, for some men. But, what was the cause and how do we fix that?

 

[JButky]

I’m not asking anyone to separate themselves from God, just to stand up for God and his Church. If someone doesn’t like how things are, they have the right and duty to stand up for what they believe and to take steps to correct what they feel is wrong. To sit back and blame others is selfish and irresponsible. Men today need to stop wringing their hands and giving up saying “the women have taken over and there’s nothing we can do!” They need to step forward to assist at mass and get involved in the parish instead of leaving it to the women to do.

Standing up for God and His Church often means to suffer and just pray when there is nothing else you can do (as many of the saints did.) It is not to courageous or manly to simply “join in” with something that men, deep in their hearts, know to be poisonous to their soul.

Men are not complaining that women have taken over roles. It is just a statement of observation and many causes are being identified in this thread. I am personally ostracized from using my gifts and talents at our parish because the pastor won’t allow it. So you tell me, what should I do? What should a man do? I know many men in this same situtation also. They want traditional, meaning just simply follow the rules, and are cast out for even asking, are labelled as such, and put on the “do not call list”! When they point out or request in even the most gentlemanly manner, they, like myself, are given the heave-ho…We want to serve, but we are not allowed…So we just suffer DEEPLY and pray…

Joe B

 

[JButky]

But, what was the cause and how do we fix that?

That’s part of the problem…“We” can’t…It’s not a case of being “left” out…but “put” out…

Joe B

 

[aurora77]

That’s part of the problem…“We” can’t…It’s not a case of being “left” out…but “put” out…

Joe B

So men are just out and that’s it? Nothing can be done, the Church will forever push men out. That just sounds fatalistic to me. Maybe you need a new parish.

 

[cmom]

I think a large part of the problem occurred when nuns stopped teaching and started taking over parish roles instead. They got preference over non-religious males and started fillng positions with women. Church jobs are also low paid positions and most men with families couldn’t survive on them, so again those were filled with women. We also populated the altar with girl servers - driving out the boys, and raising an entire generation who worked in the church with mostly women.
Men were made irrelevant. The church merely reflects society.
As women start to “pastor” protestant churches men will leave there as well.

 

[ComradeAndrei]

I wonder this too. The Church is still controlled by men, so why do so many men feel left out? Is this an actual trend in real life or just among the men on this board? What went “wrong” and what was the cause? I think women/girls in the sanctuary are a symptom of the problem being discussed–treating that might help, for some men. But, what was the cause and how do we fix that?

The ultimate cause is modernist disobedience. It is hard to try to introduce traditional practices when you have the usual chorus of people accusing you of being a misogynist and being “mean” because you want to establish altar boys only or anything of that like.

I just had an enlightening conversation with a priest from my home diocese and we came to the conclusion that it is often more important for some people that the priest is “nice” than if he’s orthodox, that he tells good jokes at the homily rather than preach anything useful. People are often not too terribly concerned with anything that really matters, they’d rather have cute decorations for the sanctuary or do things because it appeals to them on a visceral level.

Orthodoxy? What’s that? Real Catholicism? Huh? Nah, we’d rather just show up late on Sunday morning and hold hands, get the whole “group hug” (whoever said that earlier in this thread, kudos) ambiance going and feel good about ourselves.

 

[JButky]

So men are just out and that’s it? Nothing can be done, the Church will forever push men out. That just sounds fatalistic to me. Maybe you need a new parish.

Yes, that is just it. But I’m not saying it is permanent either. It obviously is not “forever” as you say. But ALL of the parishes around me are the same…I have tried many.many parishes within a 45 minutes drive time and am sad to say it’s the same all over.

Maybe I need to find a new diocese…Of course, that does present some problems too…

The other half is that maybe we are meant to suffer this. If it is a cross that we must bare, we should embrace it.

At least that is my mode of operation at present with prayers and hope for something appropriate…

Joe B

 

[aurora77]

The ultimate cause is modernist disobedience. It is hard to try to introduce traditional practices when you have the usual chorus of people accusing you of being a misogynist and being “mean” because you want to establish altar boys only or anything of that like.

I just had an enlightening conversation with a priest from my home diocese and we came to the conclusion that it is often more important for some people that the priest is “nice” than if he’s orthodox, that he tells good jokes at the homily rather than preach anything useful. People are often not too terribly concerned with anything that really matters, they’d rather have cute decorations for the sanctuary or do things because it appeals to them on a visceral level.

Orthodoxy? What’s that? Real Catholicism? Huh? Nah, we’d rather just show up late on Sunday morning and hold hands, get the whole “group hug” (whoever said that earlier in this thread, kudos) ambiance going and feel good about ourselves.

I think you’re absolutely right! Catholicism has become watered down, with how we feel taking precedence over what’s correct. I think that you, and other men like you, who become priests, have a wonderful opportunity to start correcting this. If the priest sets the proper tone, the adults in the parish hopefully will follow along and raise their kids properly. If we can get a couple of generations of solid, faithful Catholics, our grandkids won’t have to deal much with these issues.

 

[aurora77]

Yes, that is just it. But I’m not saying it is permanent either. It obviously is not “forever” as you say. But ALL of the parishes around me are the same…I have tried many.many parishes within a 45 minutes drive time and am sad to say it’s the same all over.

I’m truly sorry to hear that. Being on this board makes me appreciate my parish more and more. We’ve got great leadership from our priest (who can tell a good joke AND talk about the hard issues) and very strong men and women’s groups. I’m sure there are members of our parish who aren’t as devoted to the Church or are more “progressive”, for lack of a better word, but they don’t tend to last long in any kind of leadership position.

 

[chicago]

I wonder this too. The Church is still controlled by men, so why do so many men feel left out?

Yes, but so many of them are "girly-man"s. They cower and pander to any woman who comes their way, but push the real men (who challange their wimpiness) off.

 

[chicago]

I’ve heard it suggested that the Church has (rightly) spent a signifigant amount of effort focusing on the value and role of women in the world and life of the Church over recent decades. But at the same time there has been a real crisis of appreciating man’s nature, worth, and role in society and the Church. Perhaps at one of these cardinaliate consistories the topic ought to be taken up at long last in order to rectify the sitution.

 

[prv]

I’m glad someone else said this, I posted this earlier that today on T.V. in sitcoms women are typically pretty, smart, funny, and strong, and the men are protrayed as fat, ignorant, worthless, drunkard, lazy bums. Even commercials you have some guy too dumb to change a tire until a woman shows him how to do it. Typically men are depicted as little more than an extra child.

This has not escaped my attention either; I think it is the sign of the media gone awry.

 

[Al_Masetti]

Every parish used to have a Holy Name Society for the men.

Haven’t seen one in decades.

What happened to them?

 

[prv]

Every parish used to have a Holy Name Society for the men.

Haven’t seen one in decades.

What happened to them?

There is one at St. George Maronite Catholic Church, San Antonio, TX.

The rest of us have the Knights of Columbus—I am not a member. I’m not sure if OLOA San Antonio has either KoC or HNS—if yes, I plan on joining.