Where are the prophets today?

[Giver]

Giver:

The Catholics Churches teachings on: war, possessions, usury, and sin are not Scriptural.

Also, why haven’t you addressed this question: In Revelation John tells us that Jesus pointed out many of the Churches errors. If the Church was already making errors, what makes you think that it isn’t still doing so?
Giver

 

[MonicaC]

Giver:

Also, why haven’t you addressed this question: In Revelation John tells us that Jesus pointed out many of the Churches errors. If the Church was already making errors, what makes you think that it isn’t still doing so?
Giver

First of all I most apologize for my misspellings on my previous post, I had every intentions of doing spell check. Now you know my weakness.

I have read Revelations and I don’t understand how you can pin that on the church. I have always read it as Jesus is talking to me personally. I have and still do and will probable keep failing him. But I repent and repent over and over and will probable keep doing this forever until I am pleasing to my Lord.

That is my perspective of this any way. So it is not the Church that has failed but man as in all of us because we all fail.

Monica

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Hmmm. The Church’s teachings (which can be found in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. . .you can go online here> christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/ccc.html
<) are explained rather well here I suggest you peruse it. When you do, you will find that the Church has authentically presented the ENTIRE teachings of the Bible–Old and New Testament, and through the guidance of THE HOLY SPIRIT (without whom, as St. Peter tells us, Scripture cannot be interpreted) biblically AND INERRANTLY.

 

[Church_Militant]

Giver:

The Catholics Churches teachings on: war, possessions, usury, and sin are not Scriptural.

The Church teachings on War are indeed scriptural. I suppose that is your house suffers a home invasion that you will simply stand there while wickedness is done to your grandchildren? Self Defense

Possessions ? That seems to have been answered in a post earlier on.

Usury ? An OT Jewish law. The Catholic Church has always taught that no one should make an excessive profit off of another human being. Moreover, the church has stood up strongly against injustices against the poor and other innocents.

Sin ? Only by your errant standards Robert.

It is not the Catholic Church that is in error on this most serious of doctrines, it is YOU Robert that is in grave error by your misinterpretations of the Word of God. You’ve been patiently shown this MANY times by myself and others on here. Yet you persist in that error and refuse correction.

That’s a real shame.

 

[Pax]

Giver,

I am going to try to be chairitable in my comments to you, but you are making it more and more difficult to do so. People on these forums have treated you pretty well considering the claims you make. I hope that we will continue in this. That having been said, I am going to make the following observations.

–You have arrogantly and repeatedly called Catholics pharisees. This is a rather presumptious and egregious thing to do. Only God can read the hearts of men, yet you continue to do this as if you actually know what is inside a person.

–You have started thread after thread in what appears to be nothing more than an effort to take shots at the Catholic Church. In doing this you have displayed a tremendous amount of ignorance. This ignorance manifests itself in terms of biblical interpetation, Catholic teaching, historical facts, and current events.

–You claim to be a prophet yet you lack any earmarks of a prophet. Your so called “prophetic” musings have been routinely refuted by scripture.

–When proven wrong by scripture, you have never once admitted that you were wrong.

–When you cannot defend your position on one thread, you merely start another one with more nonsense against the Church.

–You contend that everything you present is true because it comes straight to you from Jesus even though it frequently contradicts scripture. This is an impossible combination.

–Please stop claiming that your errors come by way of Jesus. Errors and mistakes do not come from Jesus.

–Everytime you have made false claims concerning the teachings of the Church, you have been proven wrong. It is your personal interpretation that is wrong. You desperately need to realize this.

 

[Pax]

Robert,

Like others, I want you to explore the errors commited by Peter and the apostles.

Your examples from Revelation are not examples at all. The seven Churches in Revelation had members that were committing sins and there were even those that held to heresy. The fact that there were members that did such things does not mean that the church was teaching errors. I’m beginning to question your ability to read and understand the obvious from scripture.

Your claims against Peter, the apostles, and the Church are a flat out denial of Jesus words in Matthew 16:18-19 which says:

“And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

You are not a prophet, and you need to seek help.

 

[bekalc]

Giver:

The Catholics Churches teachings on: war, possessions, usury, and sin are not Scriptural.

Unfortunately Giver war is sometimes necessary, and in the Old Testament commanded by God! The Catholic Church though supports only limited war, and strongly disagreed with the Iraqi war.

The Catholic Church has also done a great deal for the poor too, and many of her members, literally have sold all their goods! How many of our people are right now on the front lines caring for the poor. What about you Giver, why didn’t you join Mother Theresa? I’d point out to you that in Acts, Peter said to Annias no one is demanding you give up your whole land (or something like that.)

Usary, for a long time Catholics weren’t allowed to be bankers!!! But well unfortuantely banking is a necessity in this day in age…

I would like to point out the Book of Galations to you. where Paul says if we or an angel from heaven, come to you with a gospel other than the one you have accepted…Also Paul talked about how he brought his revelation to the leaders of the Church, to make sure he wasn’t running in vain. Paul made sure that it was Jesus He spoke too…And what happend there teachings corresponded.

As for sin in the Church, well the Catholic Church has never said her members would be without sin…

 

[Giver]

bekalc:

Unfortunately Giver war is sometimes necessary, and in the Old Testament commanded by God! The Catholic Church though supports only limited war, and strongly disagreed with the Iraqi war.

The Catholic Church has also done a great deal for the poor too, and many of her members, literally have sold all their goods! How many of our people are right now on the front lines caring for the poor. What about you Giver, why didn’t you join Mother Theresa? I’d point out to you that in Acts, Peter said to Annias no one is demanding you give up your whole land (or something like that.)

Usary, for a long time Catholics weren’t allowed to be bankers!!! But well unfortuantely banking is a necessity in this day in age…

I would like to point out the Book of Galations to you. where Paul says if we or an angel from heaven, come to you with a gospel other than the one you have accepted…Also Paul talked about how he brought his revelation to the leaders of the Church, to make sure he wasn’t running in vain. Paul made sure that it was Jesus He spoke too…And what happend there teachings corresponded.

As for sin in the Church, well the Catholic Church has never said her members would be without sin…

Let me start this post out with (Galatians 1:8) “and let me warn you that if anyone preaches a version of the Good News different from the one we have already preached to you, whether it be ourselves or an angel from heaven, he is to be condemned.”Now for three hundred years the church preached: (Matthew 5:43-44) “You have learnt how it was said, you must love your neighbor and hate your enemy, but I say this to you: love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.” (Romans 12:18-21) “Do all you can to live at peace with everyone. Never try to get revenge; leave that, my friends, to God’s anger. As scripture says: ‘vengeance is Mine I will pay them back, the Lord promises,’ but there is more: if your enemy is hungry, you should give him food, and if he is thirsty, let him drink. Thus you heap red-hot coals on his head. Resist evil and conquer it with good.”

Now the Church preaches a different version. For centuries it preached: (1 Corinthians 5:11) “What I wrote was that you should not associate with a brother Christian who is leading an immoral life, or is a usurer, or idolatrous, or a slander, or a drunkard, or is dishonest; you should not even eat a meal with people like that.”

Good News different from the one we have already preached to you, he is to be condemned!
Giver

 

[rightbehind]

Giver:

Let me start this post out with (Galatians 1:8) “and let me warn you that if anyone preaches a version of the Good News different from the one we have already preached to you, whether it be ourselves or an angel from heaven, he is to be condemned.”Now for three hundred years the church preached: (Matthew 5:43-44) “You have learnt how it was said, you must love your neighbor and hate your enemy, but I say this to you: love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.” (Romans 12:18-21) “Do all you can to live at peace with everyone. Never try to get revenge; leave that, my friends, to God’s anger. As scripture says: ‘vengeance is Mine I will pay them back, the Lord promises,’ but there is more: if your enemy is hungry, you should give him food, and if he is thirsty, let him drink. Thus you heap red-hot coals on his head. Resist evil and conquer it with good.”

Now the Church preaches a different version. For centuries it preached: (1 Corinthians 5:11) “What I wrote was that you should not associate with a brother Christian who is leading an immoral life, or is a usurer, or idolatrous, or a slander, or a drunkard, or is dishonest; you should not even eat a meal with people like that.”

Good News different from the one we have already preached to you, he is to be condemned!
Giver

So, Giver, your original question “where are the prophets today?’” was not a truthful question. apparently you meant to ask “will the Church accept me as a new prophet?” Unfortunately, Giver, scripture also says, say what you mean and nothing more or different. In other words, according to scripture, the Holy Spirit would have had you sayin your OP “here am I, a new prophet here to tell the Church what it is doing wrong.” But, you asked something different. Therefore, is it the Holy Spirit moving you?

 

[Giver]

rightbehind:

So, Giver, your original question “where are the prophets today?’” was not a truthful question. apparently you meant to ask “will the Church accept me as a new prophet?” Unfortunately, Giver, scripture also says, say what you mean and nothing more or different. In other words, according to scripture, the Holy Spirit would have had you sayin your OP “here am I, a new prophet here to tell the Church what it is doing wrong.” But, you asked something different. Therefore, is it the Holy Spirit moving you?

Why don’t you address what I wrote in my last post, instead of attacking me personally? I am trying to get people to question why the Catholic Church services, as a rule, doesn’t include people using the Gifts of the Holy Spirit.

 

[adrift]

Giver:

Why don’t you address what I wrote in my last post, instead of attacking me personally? I am trying to get people to question why the Catholic Church services, as a rule, doesn’t include people using the Gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Why would I question that which is not true.

 

[mlchance]

Giver:

ILet me point out a few mistakes about faith and morals that the Church is making:

(Luke 14:33) “So in the same way, none of you can be my disciple unless he gives up all his possessions.”

So, then, you’ll be selling your computer real soon. I guess we’ll not be hearing any more from you hereabouts. Have a nice life.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[Pax]

Giver:

Let me start this post out with (Galatians 1:8) “and let me warn you that if anyone preaches a version of the Good News different from the one we have already preached to you, whether it be ourselves or an angel from heaven, he is to be condemned.”
Giver

You are definitely preaching a different version of the Good News and have been shown your errors many times.

Giver:

Now for three hundred years the church preached: (Matthew 5:43-44) “You have learnt how it was said, you must love your neighbor and hate your enemy, but I say this to you: love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.” (Romans 12:18-21) “Do all you can to live at peace with everyone. Never try to get revenge; leave that, my friends, to God’s anger. As scripture says: ‘vengeance is Mine I will pay them back, the Lord promises,’ but there is more: if your enemy is hungry, you should give him food, and if he is thirsty, let him drink. Thus you heap red-hot coals on his head. Resist evil and conquer it with good.”
Giver

We have been over all of this on another thread where we discussed the right of self defense which is not denied in the Gospels or in the quotes you are using. Go back to the other thread and read it over again. The explanations and proper understandings were rendered to you on that thread and you had no credible rebuttal. On that thread you accused me of finding “obscure passages” of scripture to refute you. That was your best shot because you could not rebut the truth of scripture. Now you are at it again as if you never heard the truth and the explanations that go with it.

Giver:

Now the Church preaches a different version. For centuries it preached: (1 Corinthians 5:11) “What I wrote was that you should not associate with a brother Christian who is leading an immoral life, or is a usurer, or idolatrous, or a slander, or a drunkard, or is dishonest; you should not even eat a meal with people like that.” Giver

This is ludicrous…please show me in official Catholic teaching where the Church says that we “should” associate with those that are guilty of leading immoral lives. The Church encourages us to surround ourselves with faithful people. The Church tells us to pray the “Act of Contrition” which includes the statement that we will avoid the “near occassion of sin.” You are simply wrong or you are lying about the Church. In the first instance you now know better and should never make such an egregious mistatement again. If it’s the second instance then it is simply a lie and you should repent and never repeat it again. Take your pick.

Giver:

Good News different from the one we have already preached to you, he is to be condemned!
Giver

You have just described large portions of what you state on these forums. Your mistatements about the Gospel are appalling.

 

[rightbehind]

Giver:

Why don’t you address what I wrote in my last post, instead of attacking me personally? I am trying to get people to question why the Catholic Church services, as a rule, doesn’t include people using the Gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Ah, I see. You are trying to get people to question why the Church services as a rule doesn’t include people using the Gifts of the Holy Spirit. Ah, yes I see. I misunderstood. I thought you asked where are the prophets of today? My mistake.

 

[banjo]

Giver:

Let me start this post out with (Galatians 1:8) “and let me warn you that if anyone preaches a version of the Good News different from the one we have already preached to you, whether it be ourselves or an angel from heaven, he is to be condemned.”Now for three hundred years the church preached: (Matthew 5:43-44) “You have learnt how it was said, you must love your neighbor and hate your enemy, but I say this to you: love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.” (Romans 12:18-21) “Do all you can to live at peace with everyone. Never try to get revenge; leave that, my friends, to God’s anger. As scripture says: ‘vengeance is Mine I will pay them back, the Lord promises,’ but there is more: if your enemy is hungry, you should give him food, and if he is thirsty, let him drink. Thus you heap red-hot coals on his head. Resist evil and conquer it with good.”

Now the Church preaches a different version. For centuries it preached: (1 Corinthians 5:11) “What I wrote was that you should not associate with a brother Christian who is leading an immoral life, or is a usurer, or idolatrous, or a slander, or a drunkard, or is dishonest; you should not even eat a meal with people like that.”

Good News different from the one we have already preached to you, he is to be condemned!
Giver

I don’t think the Church “preaches” a different version of love of neighbor/enemy. From the CCC:

1933 This same duty extends to those who think or act differently from us. The teaching of Christ goes so far as to require the forgiveness of offenses. He extends the commandment of love, which is that of the New Law, to all enemies.39 Liberation in the spirit of the Gospel is incompatible with hatred of one’s enemy as a person, but not with hatred of the evil that he does as an enemy.

2303 Deliberate *hatred *is contrary to charity. Hatred of the neighbor is a sin when one deliberately wishes him evil. Hatred of the neighbor is a grave sin when one deliberately desires him grave harm. "But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven."97

2608 From the *Sermon on the Mount *onwards, Jesus insists on conversion of heart: reconciliation with one’s brother before presenting an offering on the altar, love of enemies, and prayer for persecutors, prayer to the Father in secret, not heaping up empty phrases, prayerful forgiveness from the depths of the heart, purity of heart, and seeking the Kingdom before all else.64 This filial conversion is entirely directed to the Father.

As for not associating with a brother Christian who is leading an immoral life; in the ancient world as today to eat with another implied a degree of intamacy. It is this “close relationship” with this sort of person, I believe, against which Paul is writing. Incidentally, the translation can also read “so-called Christians” or “those who have the name of Christian”.

 

[tjmiller]

To have the charismatic gift of prophecy
is not necessarily to be a Prophet…

 

[Giver]

Pax:

You are definitely preaching a different version of the Good News and have been shown your errors many times.

We have been over all of this on another thread where we discussed the right of self defense which is not denied in the Gospels or in the quotes you are using. Go back to the other thread and read it over again. The explanations and proper understandings were rendered to you on that thread and you had no credible rebuttal. On that thread you accused me of finding “obscure passages” of scripture to refute you. That was your best shot because you could not rebut the truth of scripture. Now you are at it again as if you never heard the truth and the explanations that go with it.

us to surround ourselves with faithful people. The Church tells us to pray the “Act of Contrition” which includes the statement that we will avoid the “near occassion of sin.” You are simply wrong or you are lying about the Church. In the first instance you now know better and should never make such an egregious mistatement again. If it’s the second instance then it is simply a lie and you should repent and never repeat it again. Take your pick.

You have just described large portions of what you state on these forums. Your mistatements about the Gospel are appalling.

This is ludicrous…please show me in official Catholic teaching where the Church says that we “should” associate with those that are guilty of leading immoral lives. Ok! Usury.

The early Church didn’t allow usury. It is evil and people who are involved are doing an evil thing.

I would say that it must have been a Catholic practice for the Bishops and priest who knew that those sexually immoral priests were among them and did not have them removed, but associated with and most likely had eaten with.

You like to say that you have proven me wrong Scripturally, but fail to show me Scripturally where I’m wrong. In fact I’m still waiting for you answers from my thread on sin.

 

[Malachi4U]

The Mormon church has 12 prophets right now! That’s where 12 of them are.

 

[puzzleannie]

someone just pm’ed me to ask why I don’t post much anymore. This thread is a perfect example of the reason why I don’t bother to answer questions to which no one is interested in the answer. Why don’t you boys take it out in the back alley and leave this forum to the apologists and those interested in civil discourse on topics of interest.

 

[Pax]

Giver:

This is ludicrous…please show me in official Catholic teaching where the Church says that we “should” associate with those that are guilty of leading immoral lives. Ok! Usury.

The early Church didn’t allow usury. It is evil and people who are involved are doing an evil thing.

I would say that it must have been a Catholic practice for the Bishops and priest who knew that those sexually immoral priests were among them and did not have them removed, but associated with and most likely had eaten with.

You like to say that you have proven me wrong Scripturally, but fail to show me Scripturally where I’m wrong. In fact I’m still waiting for you answers from my thread on sin.

Here we go again. You give an example of sinful behavior…your favorite being sexually immoral priests, but you do not give an example of a teaching error. It doesn’t make any difference if individual bishops or priests associated with the immoral ones. They may even have been guilty of something by way of their association. In those cases where a bishop or another priest was/is guilty in this way only proves that there are sinners in the ranks. Sinners within the ranks do not invalidate the Church.

I gave you this verse before and I’ll give it to you again. Paul says in Acts 20:29-30, “I know that after my departure fierce wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; and from among your own selves will arise men speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them.” Please notice that Paul tells us that there will be bad people in the church and that they will even come from within the ranks of the church. These “fierce wolves” will do damage to the flock but they do not invalidate the Church. If their sinfulness did invalidate the Church, then it would have been invalidated even while Jesus lived and certainly while the apostles still lived. This can be seen by examples of a bad individual named Judas who was counted among the twelve, Peter who denied Jesus, the other apostles that fled after Jesus arrest, and even Thomas who doubted. In the apostolic letters and the Acts of the Apostles we learn about Diotrephes, Alexander and Hymenaeus, Simon the Magician, Annanias and Sapphira, and others that commit transgressions. Even with these trangressions, which occurred at at time when there was an incredible outpouring of the Holy Spirit, the Church remained intact and valid. The same holds true today. Immorality among individuals does not invalidate the Church.

It has been explained to you time and again that the sins of individuals do not define the church or its teachings. The Church has sinners within it, but that doesn’t make the Church wrong. The Church has saints within it also. This latter fact is something you largely overlook.

You brought up usury. Obviously, you do not know what the word means. For your sake I looked it up in the Webster’s Encyclopedic Unabridged Dictionary and I will give you the definition contained therein.

Usury: **1. the lending or practice of lending money at an exorbitant interest. 2. an exorbitant amount ** or rate of interest, esp. in excess of the legal rate."

The Church has never approved of usury and you should never speak that untruth again.