Where can I find this?

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rando78

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Ever since studying the Catholic belief on salvation, I’ve been interested in all the verses that point to this teaching that contradicts the veiws of “faith alone” and “one saved always saved.”

There is one verse, however, that I remember but cannot find now. It speaks about the wicked man who changes his ways being rewarded and the rightous man who turns from his ways being condemned. Can anyone help me find this, or is my memory so bad I’m recalling something that is not even mentioned in this way in the Bible?
 
rando78 said:
Ever since studying the Catholic belief on salvation, I’ve been interested in all the verses that point to this teaching that contradicts the veiws of “faith alone” and “one saved always saved.”

There is one verse, however, that I remember but cannot find now. It speaks about the wicked man who changes his ways being rewarded and the rightous man who turns from his ways being condemned. Can anyone help me find this, or is my memory so bad I’m recalling something that is not even mentioned in this way in the Bible?
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You may be thinking of the passage in Ezekiel 18:21-24.
“But if a wicked man turns away from all his sins which he has committed and keeps all my statutes and does what is lawful and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die. None of the transgressions which he has committed shall be remembered against him; for the righteousness which he has done he shall live. … But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity and does the same abominable things that the wicked man does, shall he live? None of the righteous deeds which he has done shall be remembered; for the treachery of which he is guilty and the sin he has committed, he shall die.”

Nita
 
Thanks for the feedback. For some reason though, its stuck in my mind that this may also be restated in the NT somewhere. I do appreciate your response because I was having trouble locating this in the Old and New Testaments. I will appreciate and help on my second part of this question, whether I remember right or not.:confused:
 
I couldn’t find any restatement or quote of the Ezekiel passage in the NT. My Bible gives pretty good cross references and there was not one that led to a NT quote.

There are passages that show the OSAS (once saved always saved) teaching is wrong - that one can come to Christ and then lose salvation. Here are a few that show that it is possible for those who have come to Christ to fall away if they do not persevere.

*Mt. 13:18 "Hear then the parable of the sower.
13:19 When any one hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what is sown in his heart; this is what was sown along the path.
13:20 As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 13:21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures for a while, and when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately he falls away.

1 Cor 9:27 (St. Paul speaking) but I pommel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified.

Gal 4:8-9,11 Formerly, when you did not know God, you were in bondage to beings that by nature are no gods; but now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and beggarly elemental spirits, who slaves you want to be once more. …I am afraid I have labored over you in vain.

Gal 5:4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace. (Altho the specific context is Christians who return to OT practices, it definitely shows that it is possible to have received grace and then to lose it.)

Gal 5:19-21 Now the works of the flesh are plain: fornication, impurity, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, party spirit, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you, (these are Christians Paul is speaking to) as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

2 Tim 4:4 and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander into myths.

Heb 2:1 Therefore we must pay the closer attention to what we have heard, lest we drift away from it.

2 Pet 2:20 For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Crist, they are again entangled in them and overpowered, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them.

2 Pet 3:17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, beware lest you be carried away with the error of lawless men and lose your own stability. *

I did not look for passages showing that sinners can convert and be forgiven since I don’t think that’s an issue with other Christian denominations.

Nita
 
James 2:24 a person is justified by works and not by faith alone
Matt7:21-27 Jesus says only those who do the will of His father will be saved

Rom 1:5 received the grace of apostleship, to bring about the obedience of faith

1 corinthians 13:13 faith, hope, and love…but the greatest of these is love

James 2:17 faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

James 2:19 ( belief is not enough- even demons beleive in God and tremble before Him.

James 2:20 Do you want proof… that faith without works is useless?
 
Nita said:
I couldn’t find any restatement or quote of the Ezekiel passage in the NT. My Bible gives pretty good cross references and there was not one that led to a NT quote.

There are passages that show the OSAS (once saved always saved) teaching is wrong - that one can come to Christ and then lose salvation. Here are a few that show that it is possible for those who have come to Christ to fall away if they do not persevere.

*Mt. 13:18 "Hear then the parable of the sower.
13:19 When any one hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what is *sown in his heart; this is what was sown along the path.
13:20 As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 13:21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures for a while, and when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately he falls away.

1 Cor 9:27 (St. Paul speaking) but I pommel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified.

Gal 4:8-9,11 Formerly, when you did not know God, you were in bondage to beings that by nature are no gods; but now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and beggarly elemental spirits, who slaves you want to be once more. …I am afraid I have labored over you in vain.

Gal 5:4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace. (Altho the specific context is Christians who return to OT practices, it definitely shows that it is possible to have received grace and then to lose it.)

Gal 5:19-21 Now the works of the flesh are plain: fornication, impurity, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, party spirit, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you, (these are Christians Paul is speaking to) as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

2 Tim 4:4 and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander into myths.

Heb 2:1 Therefore we must pay the closer attention to what we have heard, lest we drift away from it.

2 Pet 2:20 For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Crist, they are again entangled in them and overpowered, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them.

2 Pet 3:17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, beware lest you be carried away with the error of lawless men and lose your own stability.

I did not look for passages showing that sinners can convert and be forgiven since I don’t think that’s an issue with other Christian denominations.

Nita
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I thank you for the great (name removed by moderator)ut. After I read your first reply I tried to cross reference the passage in Ezekiel also. The verses you gave me are quite useful. I’m familiar with some of the above verses but not all, so you’ve been quite helpful. Thanks again and may God bless you and guide you in your help to others as well.
 
maryj said:
James 2:24 a person is justified by works and not by faith alone
Matt7:21-27 Jesus says only those who do the will of His father will be saved

Rom 1:5 received the grace of apostleship, to bring about the obedience of faith

1 corinthians 13:13 faith, hope, and love…but the greatest of these is love

James 2:17 faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

James 2:19 ( belief is not enough- even demons beleive in God and tremble before Him.

James 2:20 Do you want proof… that faith without works is useless?
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reply. Some of these I’m familiar with but not all. But it’s okay anyway. It’s better to recieve the same info on the Sciptures many times than not be told at all. Thanks again for your reply. God bless you in all your help you have to offer in this and other questions people have.

If anyone else reading this has other (name removed by moderator)ut, please share it. It may be useful to me or anyone else who wonders into this thread. Our Lord will use it for His Own Will.
 
Hi Rando,

I think I may have found it.

*Hebrews 10:37 & 39: “For yet a little while, and the coming one shall come and shall not tarry; but my righteous one shall live by faith, and if he shrinks back, my soul has no pleasure in him.” But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who have faith and keep their souls. *

Came upon the reference during my morning prayer - Liturgy of Hours, Office of Readings where St. Bede spoke about St.Paul saying this. A little ashamed to say I interrupted my prayers to fire this post off, but was afraid if I didn’t do it right away I’d forget.

God bless,
Nita
 
Nita said:
Hi Rando,

I think I may have found it.

*Hebrews 10:37 & 39: “For yet a little while, and the coming one shall come and shall not tarry; but my righteous one shall live by faith, and if he shrinks back, my soul has no pleasure in him.” * But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who have faith and keep their souls.

Came upon the reference during my morning prayer - Liturgy of Hours, Office of Readings where St. Bede spoke about St.Paul saying this. A little ashamed to say I interrupted my prayers to fire this post off, but was afraid if I didn’t do it right away I’d forget.

God bless,
Nita
Click to expand...
Thanks for keeping it up. I’ll be sure to take note of all that’s been given in response. May we all keep reading and be always listening and learning.
God Bless Always,
rando78
 
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