Where did holding hands and/or raising arms during the Lord's Prayer come from?

  • Thread starter Thread starter ANNE_2
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
A

ANNE_2

Guest
Question - Regarding the Ordinary / Novus Ordo / Form (local language) of the Mass only - -

As we know, all Priests must follow the GIRM (General Instruction of the Roman Missal).

The question is what about the People following GIRM as well ? ? ? ?
The People (us Laity) are also given instructions.
As you can tell, I am a revert, so I had been away a number of years. Where did holding hands and/or raising arms during the Lord’s Prayer come from ?
I can not find anything legitimizing this practice, or even suggesting it.
Per the instructions, this is only the role of the Priest to raise his arms.

Please provide an Official link to support your information. I’m not interested in personal opinions only ‘Official’ Church statements.

We know per the written instructions, that we are required to bow our heads just before receiving Holy Communion, if we receive when standing.

We know per the written instructions that it is up to the individual to receive Holy Communion on the Tongue or in the Hand.

Note: everyone does not hand hold or raise hands, but a significant number do.
 
ANNE_2 said:
Question - Regarding the Ordinary / Novus Ordo / Form (local language) of the Mass only - -

As we know, all Priests must follow the GIRM (General Instruction of the Roman Missal). Where did holding hands and/or raising arms during the Lord’s Prayer come from ?
I can not find anything legitimizing this practice, or even suggesting it…
Click to expand...
Or banning it. It’s an allowed choice, as it is not banned. I resisted the hand holding thing at first. On the East coast, I find it rarely done. In other areas, it’s a universal practice.

I came to appreciate it, and having moved, now miss it very much.

Bishops and Pastors have more latitude than you think. Things change. If you are uncomfortable, sit at the end of the pew and clasp your hands in front of you. People should respect your choice.
 
Is there a link that states it is an allowed choice ?
Even a Bishop’s statement would be helpful.

Thank you.

For example Cardinal Raymond Burke - regarding Mantillas at each Form of Mass has publically stated it is permitted. And his statement has been published.
 
There is nothing that permits it, but what do you want to do, stand up in the middle of Mass when people are praying, and yell at them? 🤷

The more important thing to do is pay attention to what you yourself are supposed to be doing, without worrying about what everyone else is doing. If you are looking at people holding hands and worrying about that, then you can’t really join your heart with the prayers that we are supposed to be praying at that time.

Not that it’s easy.

I found myself wildly distracted this morning because the person who was operating the sound system kept turning it off and on, which made it hard to hear the reader or the priest at times.

I think the only thing to do is just take a deep breath, let God handle it, and do whatever you are supposed to be doing, without worrying about other people’s problems.
 
Its actually a fairly ancient practice according to the Catholic Encyclopedia:
Ancient art has left us examples of pagan as well as of Christian “orantes”. The attitude (standing with arms extended or upraised) is substantially the same in all. This, then, is the attitude symbolical, among the ancients, of prayer.
Click to expand...
The learned Bishop Van der Stappen (Sacra Liturg., II, Q. lxv) is of opinion that anciently on all days alike, there was a pause for silent prayer after every “Oremus” introducing a collect; and that on Sundays and other non-penitential days this same silent prayer was made by all standing and with hands raised to Heaven.
Click to expand...
 
I’m 50 plus and we held hands as teenagers (ever since the late 60s or early 70s).
 
I did it for awhile when I joined my current parish because I didn’t want to seem unfriendly or distant, but eventually I stopped because it felt contrived and uncomfortable, and served as a distraction for me.
 
I don’t do it anymore. Several years ago I took the hand of the lady sitting next to me and when mass was over she told me how much it hurts her… I was MORTIFIED. NEVER again.
And then just this year I got tendonitis in my arm and can only imagine how much it would hurt if someone took my hand and raised my arm. So I keep my hands clasped in front of me in a prayerful position.
Had one rude person who glared at me when I shook my head no when she reached for my hand and then proceeded to stick her raised hand in my face, I simply side stepped into the aisle to get away from her… never sat near her again.
 
If no document can be found does anyone feel holding hands is wrong? Does it make our prayer invalid? And I for the life of me don’t understand why this personal preference is so important.
I by reading numerous posts have succumbed to communion on the tongue. Frankly to see if it did feel as reverent as all who post say that it is. And honestly it felt weird. I’m 38 years old and had never done that before. But being taught that way, it was all I knew. I did not receive in hand because I don’t honor the Eucharist. If I did not why would I go to mass .
 
JerrySeibert said:
If no document can be found does anyone feel holding hands is wrong? Does it make our prayer invalid? And I for the life of me don’t understand why this personal preference is so important.
I by reading numerous posts have succumbed to communion on the tongue. Frankly to see if it did feel as reverent as all who post say that it is. And honestly it felt weird. I’m 38 years old and had never done that before. But being taught that way, it was all I knew. I did not receive in hand because I don’t honor the Eucharist. If I did not why would I go to mass .
Click to expand...
A Prayer is never invalid, even a simple “Lord hear us” or simply “Jesus Christ” (said reverently of course) is a prayer, the Lord knows the intentions of our hearts. Holding hands is something of a personal preference, I however see how it could be divisive, imagine sitting next to a family at a parish, they are all holding hands with there hands raised, you standing there hands together, eyes closed, if your going to do it, it should be with those open to it not just your friends and family, I however will only ever greet my neighbour at Mass during the Kiss of peace, it is the only time i see it as appropriate, however if people want to hold hands during the Pater Noster, they can go for it, their choice, not mine (:
 
jmcrae said:
There is nothing that permits it, but what do you want to do, stand up in the middle of Mass when people are praying, and yell at them? 🤷

The more important thing to do is pay attention to what you yourself are supposed to be doing, without worrying about what everyone else is doing. If you are looking at people holding hands and worrying about that, then you can’t really join your heart with the prayers that we are supposed to be praying at that time.

Not that it’s easy.

I found myself wildly distracted this morning because the person who was operating the sound system kept turning it off and on, which made it hard to hear the reader or the priest at times.

I think the only thing to do is just take a deep breath, let God handle it, and do whatever you are supposed to be doing, without worrying about other people’s problems.
Click to expand...
If it is not permitted an announcment can be made prior to Mass.

Since I live in FL and people come here from all over the US and the World - Canadians, Germans, etc for a significant part of the year - it is extremely distracting when - -
one small group raises their arms high in the air,
another small group raises their arms about shoulder height,
other small groups do all of the above while holding hands,
another group raises their arms higher during part of the Lord’s Prayer,
and others clasp their own hands.

GIRM is very very specific (Chapter 3) regarding the People of God:
" Thus, they are to shun any appearance of individualism or division, keeping before their eyes that they have only one Father in heaven and accordingly are all brothers and sisters to each other.
  1. Indeed, they form one body, whether by hearing the word of God, or by joining in the prayers and the singing, or above all by the common offering of Sacrifice and by a common partaking at the Lord’s table.** This unity is beautifully apparent from the gestures and postures observed in common by the faithful.** "
See GIRM - “Duties of the People of God”
usccb.org/liturgy/current/chapter3.shtml
 
ANNE_2 said:
If it is not permitted an announcment can be made prior to Mass.
Click to expand...
Since no one is making announcements about it, it seems as if they don’t consider it to be that big of a deal.
Since I live in FL and people come here from all over the US and the World - Canadians, Germans, etc for a significant part of the year - it is extremely distracting when - -
one small group raises their arms high in the air,
another small group raises their arms about shoulder height,
other small groups do all of the above while holding hands,
another group raises their arms higher during part of the Lord’s Prayer,
and others clasp their own hands.
Click to expand...
Perhaps you would benefit more if you were to close your eyes at that point in the Mass, so as not to be so distracted.
GIRM is very very specific (Chapter 3) regarding the People of God:
" Thus, they are to shun any appearance of individualism or division, keeping before their eyes that they have only one Father in heaven and accordingly are all brothers and sisters to each other.
Click to expand...
  1. Indeed, they form one body, whether by hearing the word of God, or by joining in the prayers and the singing, or above all by the common offering of Sacrifice and by a common partaking at the Lord’s table.** This unity is beautifully apparent from the gestures and postures observed in common by the faithful.** "
Click to expand...
So - if most of the congregation chooses to hold hands, then, everyone has to participate, so as to signify unity?

I didn’t think so … 😛
 
jmcrae said:
Since no one is making announcements about it, it seems as if they don’t consider it to be that big of a deal.

Perhaps you would benefit more if you were to close your eyes at that point in the Mass, so as not to be so distracted.

So - if most of the congregation chooses to hold hands, then, everyone has to participate, so as to signify unity?

I didn’t think so … 😛
Click to expand...
The Congregation has no right to choose anything during the Liturgy of the Mass unless it has been specifically stated.
I am looking for that specific statement of choice or approval if it exists.
In fact without new information it appears it is a violation of GRIM.
 
ANNE_2 said:
The Congregation has no right to choose anything during the Liturgy of the Mass unless it has been specifically stated.
I am looking for that specific statement of choice or approval if it exists.
In fact without new information it appears it is a violation of GRIM.
Click to expand...
As a lay person, what do you hope to do about it? :confused:

If the priest doesn’t think it’s a big deal, and the Bishop is okay with it, all you’re going to do by worrying about it is disturb your own peace.
 
ANNE_2 said:
Since I live in FL and people come here from all over the US and the World - Canadians, Germans, etc for a significant part of the year - it is extremely distracting when - -
one small group raises their arms high in the air,
another small group raises their arms about shoulder height,
other small groups do all of the above while holding hands,
another group raises their arms higher during part of the Lord’s Prayer,
and others clasp their own hands.
Click to expand...
Sounds delightful, to me. Though I usally sit close to the front, so I wouldn’t see all that, anyway.

But, your Pastor, or whoever the Celebrant is, can see all over the Nave. If he didn’t like it, he’d put a stop to it. I’m just going to make a wild assumption he knows more about what’s permitted and what’s not than I do.

I’m not sure why this bothers you so much and I’m sorry it does. But I don’t know anyplace where anyone says every single thing done during Mass must be specifically permitted in the GIRM. On the contrary, my understanding is many things are open to Pastoral discretion.
 
ANNE_2 said:
The Congregation has no right to choose anything during the Liturgy of the Mass unless it has been specifically stated.
I am looking for that specific statement of choice or approval if it exists.
Click to expand...
This is not really true. In fact, no position at all is prescribed for the congregation’s hands during the Pater Noster, including the palms-together “praying hands” position. Clearly the congregation has a “right to choose” this customary posture, so it cannot be the case that it is banned because it is not “specifically stated.”

I know, I know – it is “obvious” that that’s not really what was meant, and that customary postures don’t have to be explicitly spelled out to be permissible, it’s just “innovations” and “novelties” that cannot be introduced. Well, find me that stated in the GIRM.
 
jmcrae said:
As a lay person, what do you hope to do about it? :confused:

If the priest doesn’t think it’s a big deal, and the Bishop is okay with it, all you’re going to do by worrying about it is disturb your own peace.
Click to expand...
Good question.
If no one can give me an Official Church link stating regarding practices during the Lord’s Prayer, I will send an email to my Pastor and Bishop regarding the practice as it relates to GIRM.

In my Diocese, when something is pointed out that violates GIRM, it gets fixed through announcments prior to Mass. We are very fortunate.
And if necessary a statement from the Bishop.

I’ll wait a few more days to see if someone can send me a link. I may have missed something in my search. Hence the purpose of this email.

Note - Last year (since we live in Florida) the Bishop sent out a statement that wearing shorts at Mass was not permitted- which was published in every Diocese Parish bulletin.

Thanks.
 
ANNE_2 said:
Note - Last year (since we live in Florida) the Bishop sent out a statement that wearing shorts at Mass was not permitted- which was published in every Diocese Parish bulletin…
Click to expand...
Is it in the GIRM? 😃

(just kiddin’ around - you can wear shorts at Mass in my Parish)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top