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TheLittleLady
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They love those passages. Their spin is that Satan took things away, however, Job’s faith was so excellent that God blessed Job even more.
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TheLittleLady
Guest
Pentecostalism varies, some are HnW, some are not.
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goout
Guest
People like to feel good. We like to worship the god that makes us feel good. But good feelings are only part of a whole life.
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TULIPed
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The classic passage used to support the “prosperity” gospel movement is Jeremiah 29:11 (from the NIV):
“11 For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.”
Of course the verses that follow are rarely (if ever) preached upon…
"12 Then you will call on me and come and pray to me, and I will listen to you. 13 You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart. 14 I will be found by you,” declares the Lord, “and will bring you back from captivity. I will gather you from all the nations and places where I have banished you,” declares the Lord, “and will bring you back to the place from which I carried you into exile.”
“11 For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.”
Of course the verses that follow are rarely (if ever) preached upon…
"12 Then you will call on me and come and pray to me, and I will listen to you. 13 You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart. 14 I will be found by you,” declares the Lord, “and will bring you back from captivity. I will gather you from all the nations and places where I have banished you,” declares the Lord, “and will bring you back to the place from which I carried you into exile.”
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christismylord
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Wow this is so sad…do they not read the beatitudes and Jesus saying “a servant is not greater than his Master…if they persecuted Me they will persecute you also…sell everything you have and follow me…” and Jesus didn’t live in a castle, He was born to a modest Virgin in a stable…“Blessed are the poor in spirit/the persecuted for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven.”
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FiveLinden
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Did Max Weber promulgate, or study, these teachings?
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ltwin
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Max Weber was a sociologist. The Protestant Work Ethic is a theory he articulated that rooted the rise of capitalism in certain Protestant beliefs and behavior.
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C.Ray
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It’s basically something called “the Law of Attraction”. You’ll hear people say things like “I put my intention out into the universe to open up a parking space for me, and the universe gave me a parking spot.” That’s what they’re talking about. It’s magical thinking that is supposed to manifest things in reality.
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felsguy
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Brings to mind a saying I heard years ago: “I find Peale appalling and Paul appealing”
addendum: I googled it and found it was first said by Adlai Stevenson back in 1956
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dochawk
Guest
thin roots, yes.
The fat roots from the televangelical gospel of wealth are firmly entrenched in the collection plate.
How much you mail to the preacher show show much you think God loves you and how successful you’ll be, all linked together.
Say what you will, but Reverend Peale is possibly the reason I am an orthodox Catholic faithful to the magisterium.ltwin:
Brings to mind a saying I heard years ago: “I find Peale appalling and Paul appealing”
addendum: I googled it and found it was first said by Adlai Stevenson back in 1956
How so? In college, a few years into the Faith, when I was struggling with whether I had to accept all of the teachings of the Church, to please God and to save my soul, I got hold of one of his little pamphlets. I don’t recall which one — that’s been 40 years ago, or longer. Quite frankly, I thought I might find a way out. I didn’t want to have the hard life that I foresaw would be mine, if I accepted Catholic morality whole and entire. I wanted to have it easy. So many others were doing it, why not me?
His words were simple: you have to give up everything in your life that you know is wrong. This convicted me. This led me to see that “invoking conscience” to dissent from Church teachings was bogus. I knew that refusing to go along with the magisterium was wrong, and these words, as simply put as it is possible to put anything, convicted me. I will forever bless the day I read that little booklet.
So don’t say that it is impossible for a Protestant minister to convince someone to be a faithful, orthodox Catholic. This made all the difference for me.
And yes, it’s been pretty hard sometimes. The cost of discipleship. Nothing less will do.
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Bill_B_NY
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I think it comes from Judaism - which Protestantism picked up in their mistaken reading of the Old Testament. “Blessings” from God were seen in material benefits by the Jews. Many wanted a Messiah that would bring them more wealth. Calvinists were Judaizers and they brought that idea into Christianity. If you were good, you would get rich. If you were bad, you would be poor. That also meant that if you were rich, it was an indication that you had favor with God, and if poor, that you had sinned. That was the Jewish concept - which Jesus corrected.
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quies
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IMHO, the prosperity-think genre can actually be traced back to Phineas P. Quimby (1802-1866) who is considered by some to be the “father” of the New Thought Movement (as mentioned in @blackforest link), having Mary Baker Eddy as his student.
At one time, I studied many of the NTM authors through their original concept of healing in the late 19th century, to 20th century positive thinking, then to manifesting possessions, to 21st century visualizing wealth.
As @HomeschoolDad mentioned, Peale was extremely popular in the 1950’s, and much can be gained by reading his work and even many of the earlier NTM authors - keeping in mind to reflect only on their philosophy and any theology that isn’t in conflict with our RC faith.
I think the last manifesting book I read was in 1968 by Shakti Gawain…
At one time, I studied many of the NTM authors through their original concept of healing in the late 19th century, to 20th century positive thinking, then to manifesting possessions, to 21st century visualizing wealth.
As @HomeschoolDad mentioned, Peale was extremely popular in the 1950’s, and much can be gained by reading his work and even many of the earlier NTM authors - keeping in mind to reflect only on their philosophy and any theology that isn’t in conflict with our RC faith.
I think the last manifesting book I read was in 1968 by Shakti Gawain…
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quies
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I would agree. Just before the book came out, in the opening of the 2006 film The Secret, introductory remarks credit Thomas Troward’s philosophy with inspiring the movie and its production.
Troward was was one of the earlier New Thought Movement authors that I alluded to above.
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anon91549587
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I was big on the secret and later discovered its roots in ancient egyptian magic . Repackaged product .
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Athanasiy
Guest
Yea, but if you want to create something, something worthy of attention, I mean, then - every thing is based on money.
Let’s be realistic.
If you want to grow as a manager, creator of some worthy of attention project then you need money.
You incourage people of your team to be creative by material well being.
It’s a rithm and reality of modern life.
Let’s be realistic.
If you want to grow as a manager, creator of some worthy of attention project then you need money.
You incourage people of your team to be creative by material well being.
It’s a rithm and reality of modern life.
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Athanasiy
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There is no much delight in low paid hard workers, in the Church, who can’t even afford to build a family, or who always complain against people around them.
Prosperity, growth and yes - success, are important fellows in modern life.
It’s a crown on your head.
So intelectual… phisical… laziness, and lack of creativity is also spiritually unhealthy.
Prosperity, growth and yes - success, are important fellows in modern life.
It’s a crown on your head.
So intelectual… phisical… laziness, and lack of creativity is also spiritually unhealthy.
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ReaderT
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It may be that many people have not read their Bibles - like the Literalists who never saw that God has “feathers and wings” in Psalm 91:4.
“He will cover you with His feathers, and under His wings you will find refuge; His faithfulness is your shield and rampart.”
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ltwin
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The Book of Job? Where God allows Job to lose all of his health, wealth and all of his children but Job remains faithful and at the end of the story God restores Job’s health and gives him double his former wealth and new children?
Yeah, prosperity preachers love that story. Those who teach “faith” or positive confession do allow for suffering in their theology. It’s not all rainbows and sunshine. But, ultimately, like Job, if you have faith and positive confession, you will prosper physically, spiritually and financially.
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1Lord1Faith
Guest
The prosperity gospel is probably the only viable economic engine that the US has left.
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