Where did the Book of Mormon come from?

[BumpSetSpike]

I was raised mormon so I know the story, but since I’ve decided to convert to Catholicism all I want to know is if the Mormon faith isn’t true, where did the BOM come from?

I don’t believe that Joseph Smith and his interpretors just made it up as they went along.

I’m really confused about this because the Mormon faith right now just has so many loopholes in the Doctrines and even the prophet’s doctrines condradict each other, but this is one thing I can’t really seem to figure out.

 

[BobCatholic]

Actually that’s how it happened. Those who originally “witnessed” the BOM being translated from those “golden plates” later wound up being excommunicated or lost their mormon faith.

A key mormon doctrine is that God changes, so therefore doctrine must change.

That’s relativism.

Thus everything is made up in mormonism.

 

[dosdog]

I was raised mormon so I know the story, but since I’ve decided to convert to Catholicism all I want to know is if the Mormon faith isn’t true, where did the BOM come from?

I don’t believe that Joseph Smith and his interpretors just made it up as they went along.

I’m really confused about this because the Mormon faith right now just has so many loopholes in the Doctrines and even the prophet’s doctrines condradict each other, but this is one thing I can’t really seem to figure out.

irr.org/mit/Books/View-Hebrews/viewhe1a.html

2think.org/hundredsheep/annotated/intro.shtml

utlm.org/onlineresources/anthonletter.htm

irr.org/mit/bompage.html

 

[scapularkid8]

I was raised mormon so I know the story, but since I’ve decided to convert to Catholicism

YAY!!! You’ve seen the Light!!! You are more wise than most Mormons I know your age who think they know EVERYTHING. I’ll help you as much as I can and don’t ever be afraid to PM me anytime.

I reccomend these articles:

saintsalive.org/mormonism/falseprophetjs.htm

catholic.com/thisrock/2003/0305fea4.asp

 

[Catholic_Dude]

I was raised mormon so I know the story, but since I’ve decided to convert to Catholicism all I want to know is if the Mormon faith isn’t true, where did the BOM come from?

I don’t believe that Joseph Smith and his interpretors just made it up as they went along.

I’m really confused about this because the Mormon faith right now just has so many loopholes in the Doctrines and even the prophet’s doctrines condradict each other, but this is one thing I can’t really seem to figure out.

From the people I have talked to they take on the opinion that it wasnt just Smith and his companions alone in the room, the devil was also present.

 

[sandmountainsli]

He made it up.
What is so funny is how he tried to write in 17th century English.
I have yet to have anyone explain what “Reformed Egyptian” is and why the “Prophets” spoke it rather than Hebrew!
WP

 

[Alma147]

He made it up.
What is so funny is how he tried to write in 17th century English.
I have yet to have anyone explain what “Reformed Egyptian” is and why the “Prophets” spoke it rather than Hebrew!
WP

How is it “funny?” Webster made his own translation of the Bible about the same time and he used Elizabethan English. Is that also funny?

Here’s an explanation of “Reformed Egyptian:” It isn’t a spoken language, it’s a written language. The Book of Mormon claims that the authors of the Book of Mormon called their own written script “Reformed Egyptian.” That’s because they started with an Egyptian script and modified it over about 10 centuries. A good example of present day “reformed Egyptian” script is the Latin character alphabet I’m using to write this message. Its elements go back to Egyptian which has been reformed and modified over several thousand years. see for example: peak.org/~jeremy/dictionary/chapters/pix/alphabet.gif

I don’t know of anyone who claims that anyone spoke Reformed Egyptian, but if Jesus could read Greek or Hebrew, He would have been using a reformed Egyptian script. Can you think of a written language that Hebrew prophets used that wasn’t a modified form of Egyptian?

Alma

 

[sandmountainsli]

How is it “funny?” Webster made his own translation of the Bible about the same time and he used Elizabethan English. Is that also funny?

Here’s an explanation of “Reformed Egyptian:” It isn’t a spoken language, it’s a written language. The Book of Mormon claims that the authors of the Book of Mormon called their own written script “Reformed Egyptian.” That’s because they started with an Egyptian script and modified it over about 10 centuries. A good example of present day “reformed Egyptian” script is the Latin character alphabet I’m using to write this message. Its elements go back to Egyptian which has been reformed and modified over several thousand years. see for example: peak.org/~jeremy/dictionary/chapters/pix/alphabet.gif

I don’t know of anyone who claims that anyone spoke Reformed Egyptian, but if Jesus could read Greek or Hebrew, He would have been using a reformed Egyptian script. Can you think of a written language that Hebrew prophets used that wasn’t a modified form of Egyptian?

Alma

Noah Webster in himself is hilarious His “dictionary” is laughable, the man couldn’t even spell “colour” much less translate a Bible.
Here is an article on “Reformed Egyptian”.
apologeticsindex.org/b60aa.html
Thankfully it is written in the Saxon Language so we may all understand it.
WP

 

[estesbob]

How is it “funny?” Webster made his own translation of the Bible about the same time and he used Elizabethan English. Is that also funny?

Yes

Here’s an explanation of “Reformed Egyptian:” It isn’t a spoken language, it’s a written language. The Book of Mormon claims that the authors of the Book of Mormon called their own written script “Reformed Egyptian.” That’s because they started with an Egyptian script and modified it over about 10 centuries. A good example of present day “reformed Egyptian” script is the Latin character alphabet I’m using to write this message. Its elements go back to Egyptian which has been reformed and modified over several thousand years. see for example: peak.org/~jeremy/dictionary/chapters/pix/alphabet.gif

I don’t know of anyone who claims that anyone spoke Reformed Egyptian, but if Jesus could read Greek or Hebrew, He would have been using a reformed Egyptian script. Can you think of a written language that Hebrew prophets used that wasn’t a modified form of Egyptian?

Alma

There is no such thing as "reformed egyption.

 

[Alma147]

Yes

There is no such thing as "reformed egyption.

In the absence of a logical argument, simply assert.

Alma

 

[sandmountainsli]

In the absence of a logical argument, simply assert.

Alma

Are you talking about estesbob or Joseph Smith?
WP

 

[tequilamac]

It was an invention of Satan’s in order to confuse the minds of mortal men. From what I can see, Satan was very successful as there are many confused men reading the Book of Mormon.

I tried to read it once. I was on a road trip through Utah and the Book of Mormon was in every hotel room. Complimentary copy.

Never been so confused in my life. It did not seem to have a main point, a primary subject, a plot, nothing. It just sort of rambled along. I gave it up as completely unreadable. A very confusing book. Very.

Satan does these things.

 

[estesbob]

Are you talking about estesbob or Joseph Smith?
WP

I am a reformed drunk-not a reformed egyptian. You know there may be somethng to that reformed egyptian stuff. Remember in the Movie the “Mummy” when the crowd was chanting “Amoteth, Amoteth”. You figure maybe that was it?

 

[tequilamac]

I am a reformed drunk-not a reformed egyptian. You know there may be somethng to that reformed egyptian stuff. Remember in the Movie the “Mummy” when the crowd was chanting “Amoteth, Amoteth”. You figure maybe that was it?

You know there is a lot of difference between a reformed drunk and a reformed egyptian who reads the Book of Mormon. My conclusion after trying to read the book of mormon was that I would have to be drunk to understand it and I’m not even an orthodox egyptian.

 

[sandmountainsli]

I am a reformed drunk-not a reformed egyptian. You know there may be somethng to that reformed egyptian stuff. Remember in the Movie the “Mummy” when the crowd was chanting “Amoteth, Amoteth”. You figure maybe that was it?

YES! That is indeed the Reformed Egyptian tongue!
I stand corrected.
WP

 

[majick275]

*Quote:
Originally Posted by Alma147 View Post
In the absence of a logical argument, simply assert.

Alma
*
which is essentially what Joseph Smith did in the first place. What evidence for reformed egyptian is there?

Golden plates? conveniently taken away by an angel.

Scribes notes? amazingly non-existent.

Sample of characters? aaahhhh! maybe something here. The Anthon transcript. we can see it is gibberish. (greek, hebrew and latin letters rotated around). but then the LDS now make excuses that it isn’t the real characters. (no proof, just assertion)

What was claimed? anthon pronounced it real and said it was assyrian, chaldaic and arabic? doubtful but at that time anthon had no adequate ability to make these claims even if he did think it true. (He claims he did not)

Proof? Harris claimed Anthon took the letter of authenticity back and destroyed it. (convenient again)

Joseph smith left us reason to believe that he was quite interested in Egyptian but couldn’t translate it at all. (his egyptian grammar and the Book of Abraham show this)

Many Hebrew scholars might take issue with the theory that Hebrew itself is reformed egyptian. The BoM seems to contradict that as well since it apologizes for not writing in Hebrew which it claims would have been more accurate. The likelihood of Lehi and his descendants writng in any form of egyptian is highly unlikely as we can see no evidence of them ever being in a position to learn egyptian and the only writen word they claim to have brought with them was alleged by them to be ion hebrew. (brass plates) further, Ether would seem to need to be a form of adamic if it is to be taken at face value as that is what the initial jaredites would have spoken. So where do we get egyptian? reformed egyptian…that one extra word means it can be anything. I could by that theory claim modern american english is reformed egyptian.

look for yourself at the only alleged example of reformed egyptian:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Caractors_large.jpg

now if we add that to the BoA facsimiles (especially number three) we get a pattern of making up stories based on the trendy but unknown (at that time) “egyptology” of Joseph Smith’s time.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Abraham

Feel free to verify the material in the links form whatever source you want. The facsimiles are in the current LDS scriptures. the reforned egyptian characters have been displayed in a number of Mormon publications. Based on what little evidence is available I think it obvious that fraud occurred.

 

[tequilamac]

which is essentially what Joseph Smith did in the first place. What evidence for reformed egyptian is there?

Golden plates? conveniently taken away by an angel.

Scribes notes? amazingly non-existent.

Sample of characters? aaahhhh! maybe something here. The Anthon transcript. we can see it is gibberish. (greek, hebrew and latin letters rotated around). but then the LDS now make excuses that it isn’t the real characters. (no proof, just assertion)

What was claimed? anthon pronounced it real and said it was assyrian, chaldaic and arabic? doubtful but at that time anthon had no adequate ability to make these claims even if he did think it true. (He claims he did not)

Proof? Harris claimed Anthon took the letter of authenticity back and destroyed it. (convenient again)

Joseph smith left us reason to believe that he was quite interested in Egyptian but couldn’t translate it at all. (his egyptian grammar and the Book of Abraham show this)

Many Hebrew scholars might take issue with the theory that Hebrew itself is reformed egyptian. The BoM seems to contradict that as well since it apologizes for not writing in Hebrew which it claims would have been more accurate. The likelihood of Lehi and his descendants writng in any form of egyptian is highly unlikely as we can see no evidence of them ever being in a position to learn egyptian and the only writen word they claim to have brought with them was alleged by them to be ion hebrew. (brass plates) further, Ether would seem to need to be a form of adamic if it is to be taken at face value as that is what the initial jaredites would have spoken. So where do we get egyptian? reformed egyptian…that one extra word means it can be anything. I could by that theory claim modern american english is reformed egyptian.

look for yourself at the only alleged example of reformed egyptian:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Caractors_large.jpg

now if we add that to the BoA facsimiles (especially number three) we get a pattern of making up stories based on the trendy but unknown (at that time) “egyptology” of Joseph Smith’s time.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Abraham

Feel free to verify the material in the links form whatever source you want. The facsimiles are in the current LDS scriptures. the reforned egyptian characters have been displayed in a number of Mormon publications. Based on what little evidence is available I think it obvious that fraud occurred.

Reformed Egyptians? Who reformed the Egyptians? Why did they need Reformation? Are there still orthodox Egyptians that existed before their reformation? Joseph Smith spoke Egyptian? I thought he never left the States. Very confusing. Reformed Egyptians indeed.

 

[tequilamac]

Ah. I see. Egyptians themselves were not reformed but their language was. Do Egyptians today speak reformed egyptian or the original? Do Egyptians themselves have any opinion on Joseph Smith I wonder?

 

[sandmountainsli]

Ah. I see. Egyptians themselves were not reformed but their language was. Do Egyptians today speak reformed egyptian or the original? Do Egyptians themselves have any opinion on Joseph Smith I wonder?

They speak Reformed-Reformed Egyptian, known by some as Arabic which is Greek to me being that I speak only the Reformed Saxon tongue which some call Appalachian English.
WP

 

[Steadfast]

Joe Smith was very smart and had a very active imagination and he lived during a time of remarkable religious and millennial turbulence.

I think he made it all up.

Have you read “No Man Knows My History” by Fawn M. Brodie or “One Nation under Gods” by Richard Abanes?

Both are excellent biographies of Smith. He was quite the confidence man.