Where did the Book of Mormon come from?

[why_me]

Of course the idea that Sidney wrote the book has been around for quite some time. In fact, the idea was around at the time of Sidney Rigdon. Nothing new there.

The problem with the Ridgon theory is that if he wrote the book, he failed miserably in doing so. He was persecuted by mobs, dragged through the streets and left for dead. Not much glory there. And then of course, he was booted out of the church. And yet, he kept his much shut.

Dan Vogel (you can google him) does not support the Ridgon theory at all and puts forth a good case why he doesn’t. He was in an online debate with Dale Broardhurst a year or so ago and no one really one that debate. Dan has a different theory.

And so, the critics cannot exactly agree on the origins of the book of mormon.

Here is also an interesting discussion about the issue on a critic board:

mormondiscussions.com/discuss/viewtopic.php?t=6807&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=uncle+dale&st

 

[Stephen168]

Because the mormons were diffferent from the frontier christians, the frontier christians persecuted the mormons, especially JS. He was tarred and feathered and lost two young children due to mob violence. Not to mention the deaths of many more mormons at the hand of mob violence.

I assume you mean the attacks were unprevoked.
Why would the frontier christians attack mormons but not the oneida community?

 

[majick275]

Of course, Joseph didn’t make much money at all throughout his life. In fact, the book of mormon caused him much hardship. Because the mormons were diffferent from the frontier christians, the frontier christians persecuted the mormons, especially JS. He was tarred and feathered and lost two young children due to mob violence. Not to mention the deaths of many more mormons at the hand of mob violence.

At the end, JS lost his life as did his brother. Fact: JS would have been more successful without the book of mormon. He could have organized a wonderful protestant sect and lived a happy and peaceful life. But…

JS went from a poor farm boy with nothing to a the mayor of a thriving city where he owned multiple businesses and was general of the militia. he had multiple wives and concubines. he was the leader of thousands of people. all because of the BoM.

he was tarred and feathered for trying to seduce yet another woman by her MORMON family. his children did not die from mob violence but form natural causes which were all too common at that time. he lost his life and his brother also as the result of his evil deeds angering too many people too much.

he wasn’t a good enough preacher to succeed with a protestant sect and it would have been too much work. being a false prophet is far easier and much more lucrative…even today.

 

[Stephen168]

lost two young children due to mob violence.

Why would you say this when it is not true?

 

[AMDGtoo]

I assume you mean the attacks were unprevoked.
Why would the frontier christians attack mormons but not the oneida community?

Whoa–after reading about the oneida community, one does wonder why the Mormons were singled out and since there is usually a reason for any attack, (defense is normally a reason used), I wonder what the Mormons did to so anger the frontier Christians. New York certainly had its share of strange religions so we know that it wasn’t that!

 

[valient_Lucy]

Here’s an explanation of “Reformed Egyptian:” It isn’t a spoken language, it’s a written language. The Book of Mormon claims that the authors of the Book of Mormon called their own written script “Reformed Egyptian.” That’s because they started with an Egyptian script and modified it over about 10 centuries. A good example of present day “reformed Egyptian” script is the Latin character alphabet I’m using to write this message. Its elements go back to Egyptian which has been reformed and modified over several thousand years. see for example: peak.org/~jeremy/dictionary/chapters/pix/alphabet.gif

I don’t know of anyone who claims that anyone spoke Reformed Egyptian, but if Jesus could read Greek or Hebrew, He would have been using a reformed Egyptian script. Can you think of a written language that Hebrew prophets used that wasn’t a modified form of Egyptian?

Alma

Two questions come to mind.

1 What are some other examples of writing in Reformed Egyptian? I’m not talking about religious writings, I’m talking about documents such as written laws, accounts of trading and rationing, and any other kind of business, government, or personal documents. Can you provide us with a secular, non LDS source that demonstrates the existence of Reformed Egyptian?

2 Why write in Reformed Egyptian and not in Hebrew?

 

[Jerusha]

Whoa–after reading about the oneida community, one does wonder why the Mormons were singled out and since there is usually a reason for any attack, (defense is normally a reason used), I wonder what the Mormons did to so anger the frontier Christians. New York certainly had its share of strange religions so we know that it wasn’t that!

Yeah, the Oneida community was very interesting, but they co-existed with surrounding communities. And sexual relationships don’t appear to have been forced. They seem to have had reasonable leaders, rather than despots.

It wasn’t just what the Mormons did to frontier Christians. It has a lot to do with what the Mormons did to Natives. Did you know that laman means concubine or receptacle for a man’s sexuality in the Old Norse language?

 

[why_me]

I assume you mean the attacks were unprevoked.
Why would the frontier christians attack mormons but not the oneida community?

I would suppose that they posed no threat. However, I have no idea what the oneida community is.

 

[why_me]

Why would you say this when it is not true?

It is true. During the night when JS was tarred and feathered young children caught a cold and died.

 

[why_me]

he was tarred and feathered for trying to seduce yet another woman by her MORMON family. his children did not die from mob violence but form natural causes which were all too common at that time. he lost his life and his brother also as the result of his evil deeds angering too many people too much.

From the Wiki:

In 1832 Joseph was tarred and feathered by a gentile mob near Kirtland. The fury of the mob was ignited by **rumors **that Joseph had made sexual advances to a seventeen-year-old girl. The attack on his person intensified Joseph’s determination to establish a Mormon utopia far away from the gentiles. The Mormon’s new home, with its ideal society, would be called Zion.

Rumors were always very ripe with the critics of JS even at that time.

 

[why_me]

It is true. During the night when JS was tarred and feathered young children caught a cold and died.

I will check my understanding of this. Perhaps I am wrong.

 

[scipio337]

According to the LDS “History of the Church” site, we get this image of Smith’s “translation”

http://www.lds.org/ch/images/history_of_church.jpg

lds.org/churchhistory/history, or other traditional depictions

Odd that they have eliminated the “rock in the hat trick”, which looked a little more like this:

http://www.geocities.com/exmormon2000/joseph-stone-sm-sh.gif

It came from the mind of Joseph Smith, just as the Books of Abraham, etc did.

 

[majick275]

From the Wiki:

In 1832 Joseph was tarred and feathered by a gentile mob near Kirtland. The fury of the mob was ignited by **rumors **that Joseph had made sexual advances to a seventeen-year-old girl. The attack on his person intensified Joseph’s determination to establish a Mormon utopia far away from the gentiles. The Mormon’s new home, with its ideal society, would be called Zion.

Rumors were always very ripe with the critics of JS even at that time.

while the great wikipedia is careful to call them “rumors” i think you can see quite a bit of evidence in this case. who was doing the tarring and feathering is significant too. it was disgruntled mormons doing this. the reason is still important too. this had nothing to do with the BoM or any religious issue. it was about JS womanizing which we know happened. you can say God commanded it but you still have to admit it happened.

 

[zaffiroborant]

It is true. During the night when JS was tarred and feathered young children caught a cold and died.

No the twins had measles, Joseph was with one and Emma with the other.

 

[Catholic_Dude]

while the great wikipedia is careful to call them “rumors” i think you can see quite a bit of evidence in this case. who was doing the tarring and feathering is significant too. it was disgruntled mormons doing this. the reason is still important too. this had nothing to do with the BoM or any religious issue. it was about JS womanizing which we know happened. you can say God commanded it but you still have to admit it happened.

This is a good point. People have to be careful with Wiki in these types of situations and not put too much emphasis on a given word like “rumor”. Clearly this is a carefully worded/edited article which could actually, easily be distorting the true historical account.

 

[Itistrue]

How can you say Joseph Smith wrote this?! Have you even read the Book of Mormon, if not then you should be talking about it being false.

And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.
And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.

This will get you the answer. Whether it is true or not, if you pray with a sincere heart with real intent having faith.

 

[Bezant]

It is true I should remind you that this thread is 5 years old, and the last post from 3 years ago.

 

[Imcatholic7]

Look up the “Spalding Enigma”

 

[zaffiroborant]

How can you say Joseph Smith wrote this?! Have you even read the Book of Mormon, if not then you should be talking about it being false.

And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.
And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.

This will get you the answer. Whether it is true or not, if you pray with a sincere heart with real intent having faith.

So you are here as a member missionary for the LDS church. Why in the world do you think parroting these words will be effective? Have you read anything here, do you understand the conversations that have taken place here? Or are you nothing more than a drive by Mormon who thinks you are leaving us with what you feel are profound insights sure to leave us longing for more?

itistrue…it is true, did you know itistrue that Joseph Smith married other men’s wives, it is true.