Where did we go wrong?

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JoeyWarren

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I put this in this forum because at one time the part of our traditional catholicism was evangelization.
Someone said: When I go to mass every Sunday there are many people who leave right after communion, eager to get out of the crowded parking lot, instead of practicing the virtue of patience.

In my former Lutheran church, the fellowship was great. We had coffee fellowships after service and many education classes. On top of that, almost every member knew who every other member was, unless they whisped away after communion.

In these ways I definitely admire the Protestants, for most are very welcoming and have great fellowship. As for improving in getting our message out, that is most definitely a great need in the Church. Many great saints spent their lifetime here on earth evangelizing pagans, Protestants, atheists, etc. I would agree that this could be somewhat improved in the Church.
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***So where did we go wrong. Why did we stop evangelizing? Why did we stop caring about the unchurched? Why are we so hung up on petty issues that this forum comprises of such as Liturgical Abuses, Tridentine Mass? ***
 
Do you discount the missions ?

And, do you consider liturgical abuse petty ?

I understand what you are getting at, but, welcome to the internet.
 
I_Believe said:
Do you discount the missions ?
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What portion of Missions are dedicated to reaching the non-believer? What portion of the Missions are dedicated to reaching the un-churched? And what portion of those mission are geared for the homefront vs across the ocean?
And, do you consider liturgical abuse petty ?
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**Liturgical abuse is primarily in the mind of the beholder and most abuses I’ve have seen discussed here is more of about personal opinion and preference then any real concern. And when the concern is real, the people that are complaining do not have the guts to take affirmative action to correct the abuse, they just rather leave the local church in favor for another that might be less abusive. Yes very petty considering the number of souls that will be lost to Satan or are lost to Satan because we have become to complacent. We expect the Priests and Nuns to do everything so we don’t have to. **
I understand what you are getting at, but, welcome to the internet.
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JoeyWarren said:
So where did we go wrong. Why did we stop evangelizing? Why did we stop caring about the unchurched? Why are we so hung up on petty issues that this forum comprises of such as Liturgical Abuses, Tridentine Mass? ?
I just think it a little funny that you came to Catholic Answers and suggest that we Catholic are no longer evangelizing. Isn’t that a little ironic? 😉

There are many issues to be dealt with in our Church. We are not limited to one or the other. We can evangelize and deal with liturgical abuses that are hurting our evangelization effort. 👍
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I’m not going to spend too much time on the mission question, but as far as the liturgical abuse, a lot of catholics visit this forum. Some of them have only attended a handful of Novus Ordo parishes, and frankly, would not know a liturgical abuse if they saw one.

But when they come here and see discussions on liturgical abuse, they are made aware of the problem.

Then, at least they can decide if it is something they can concern themselves with.
 
I_Believe said:
I’m not going to spend too much time on the mission question, but as far as the liturgical abuse, a lot of catholics visit this forum. Some of them have only attended a handful of Novus Ordo parishes, and frankly, would not know a liturgical abuse if they saw one.

But when they come here and see discussions on liturgical abuse, they are made aware of the problem.

Then, at least they can decide if it is something they can concern themselves with.
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Well, I’m quite familiar with the Novus Ordo. I attend it just about every Sunday. I’m pretty sure most traditionalists would know a liturgical abuse although they might extend the list to include things they don’t like but that are approved. That said, I’d say have to say that on the whole more Novus Ordo folks don’t notice the abuses that are thrown at them week in and week out because they are a little unfamiliar with a little document we like to call the GIRM.
 
“The Pope speaks of the need not only to understand the true and deep meaning of the Eucharist, but also to celebrate it with dignity and reverence. He says that we must be aware of ‘gestures and posture, such as kneeling during the central moments of the Eucharistic Prayer’ (Sacramentum Caritatis, 65). Also, speaking about reception of Holy Communion, he invites everyone to ‘make every effort to ensure that this simple act [posture] preserves its importance as a personal encounter with the Lord Jesus Christ in the [Blessed] Sacrament’ (Sacramentum Caritatis 50).

I find myself in solid agreement with the OP. Just one example noted above…and it is not a matter so much of disagreement, but prioritization. Is there anyone who would disagree with the statement above? Likely not. But somehow we have a leader who can not only pontificate on the subject and agonize with the faithful over the details concerning the proper method for the reception of the eucharist, but at the same time cannot fit into his schedule a meeting with the US victims of clergy sex abuse scandal. THAT speaks volumes about priorities, gives credence to the ‘form over substance’ critiques of the Church and is a stark, glaring example of why the Church is alienating and/or losing its traditional base in the US and becoming reliant on the influx of Hispanic faithful to replace them.
 
Island_Oak said:
“The Pope speaks of the need not only to understand the true and deep meaning of the Eucharist, but also to celebrate it with dignity and reverence. He says that we must be aware of ‘gestures and posture, such as kneeling during the central moments of the Eucharistic Prayer’ (Sacramentum Caritatis, 65). Also, speaking about reception of Holy Communion, he invites everyone to ‘make every effort to ensure that this simple act [posture] preserves its importance as a personal encounter with the Lord Jesus Christ in the [Blessed] Sacrament’ (Sacramentum Caritatis 50).

I find myself in solid agreement with the OP. Just one example noted above…and it is not a matter so much of disagreement, but prioritization. Is there anyone who would disagree with the statement above? Likely not. But somehow we have a leader who can not only pontificate on the subject and agonize with the faithful over the details concerning the proper method for the reception of the eucharist, but at the same time cannot fit into his schedule a meeting with the US victims of clergy sex abuse scandal. THAT speaks volumes about priorities, gives credence to the ‘form over substance’ critiques of the Church and is a stark, glaring example of why the Church is alienating and/or losing its traditional base in the US and becoming reliant on the influx of Hispanic faithful to replace them.
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The Catholic Church is a worldwide institution. The proper gestures for receiving the Eucharist affect the whole Church. As bad as the sex scandals were in the US, it was a localized problem for the most part. The Catholic Church does not revolve around the USA. The Pope is not a “Catholic Superman” who can be all things to all people and fix every problem. Given that the media coverage of the sex scandal began in the early 2000s when mass attendance had already dropped off, I don’t see a correlation. Those who are really committed to the Church know not to put their trust in men.
 
JoeyWarren said:
I put this in this forum because at one time the part of our traditional catholicism was evangelization.

***So where did we go wrong. Why did we stop evangelizing? Why did we stop caring about the unchurched? Why are we so hung up on petty issues that this forum comprises of such as Liturgical Abuses, Tridentine Mass? ***
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who is “we”?
in every parish and diocese in which I have lived, worked and worshipped we evangelize, we care about the unchurched, we address liturgical abuse and what on earth has the Tridentine Mass have to do with the question? The people I know who attend and support TLM are actually some of the most effective and active evangelizers.
 
JoeyWarren said:
…So where did we go wrong. Why did we stop evangelizing? Why did we stop caring about the unchurched?
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It’s called religious indifference. It’s a side effect of the modern approach to ecumenism. You don’t give medicine to folks who aren’t sick. And now it’s thought of as “triumphalistic” and “judgemental” to think someone is sick. How dare you judge!!!
JoeyWarren said:
Why are we so hung up on petty issues that this forum comprises of such as Liturgical Abuses, Tridentine Mass?
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Something about Lex Orendi, Lex Credendi. It’s all related.

DustinsDad
 
Among the “we” you refer to are troublemakers who come here looking for a little amusement and others who don’t believe. Some of the questioners are sincere, but it’s not always obvious.

The Catholic Church did not go wrong in regard to evangelization around the world. I suggest you pick up a Catholic magazine or newspaper and read about the Church’s global efforts to evangelize, to aid the sick and the hungry and to promote human life and dignity.

What has gone wrong is that the faithful have been slowly poisoned over the last 40 years, starting with a few small things that turned into large stumbling blocks. Let’s review:

1960 The Birth Control Pill.
1968 Hippies. Sex with anyone, illegal drugs are cool, mind expanding even. Don’t trust anyone over 30, which would include mom, dad, priests, nuns and other authority figures. Off the pigs! (Kill the police!) Down with the Establishment!
1973 Abortion legalized. So-called Adult Bookstores spring up all over the country. TV begins showing programs that deal with sexuality.
1978 National Organization for Women tries to convince all women that men are out to exploit them and that they are all victims, or potential victims, of the enemy - men.
1980s Porn on cable and in hotels and motels. No-fault divorce completes its sweep of the country. No kids? $75 and you’re out.
Between abortion, the Pill and No-Fault Divorce, some people believe that they can become “happier” by disposing of their problem and acting irresponsibly.
Sue Ellen on Dallas is shown drinking straight out of the bottle and driving.
1990s Into the abyss. You can’t tell a Christian from a non-Christian. By the end of the 90s, there is partial nudity and profanity on network TV, shock jocks who spew profanity and promote prostitutes (referred to as “porn stars”) and an explosion of porn on the internet.
2000s The dysfunctional person/family/relationship is the universal template for TV programs. Almost everything has become sexualized. Kids insult their parents and parents aren’t parenting.

Is it any wonder that people in America and Western Europe have stopped going to Church or have become Sunday only Christians? They were gradually led away from their faith in God to imitating what their neighbors were doing in the mistaken belief that by imitating them, they would be happier, life would be easier and problems could be solved with little fuss.

But there are still those who follow what the Bible teaches and who ignore the noise coming from the TV, movies, magazines and the radio.

God bless,
Ed
 
edwest2 said:
Among the “we” you refer to are troublemakers who come here looking for a little amusement and others who don’t believe. Some of the questioners are sincere, but it’s not always obvious.

The Catholic Church did not go wrong in regard to evangelization around the world. I suggest you pick up a Catholic magazine or newspaper and read about the Church’s global efforts to evangelize, to aid the sick and the hungry and to promote human life and dignity.

What has gone wrong is that the faithful have been slowly poisoned over the last 40 years, starting with a few small things that turned into large stumbling blocks. Let’s review:

1960 The Birth Control Pill.
1968 Hippies. Sex with anyone, illegal drugs are cool, mind expanding even. Don’t trust anyone over 30, which would include mom, dad, priests, nuns and other authority figures. Off the pigs! (Kill the police!) Down with the Establishment!
1973 Abortion legalized. So-called Adult Bookstores spring up all over the country. TV begins showing programs that deal with sexuality.
1978 National Organization for Women tries to convince all women that men are out to exploit them and that they are all victims, or potential victims, of the enemy - men.
1980s Porn on cable and in hotels and motels. No-fault divorce completes its sweep of the country. No kids? $75 and you’re out.
Between abortion, the Pill and No-Fault Divorce, some people believe that they can become “happier” by disposing of their problem and acting irresponsibly.
Sue Ellen on Dallas is shown drinking straight out of the bottle and driving.
1990s Into the abyss. You can’t tell a Christian from a non-Christian. By the end of the 90s, there is partial nudity and profanity on network TV, shock jocks who spew profanity and promote prostitutes (referred to as “porn stars”) and an explosion of porn on the internet.
2000s The dysfunctional person/family/relationship is the universal template for TV programs. Almost everything has become sexualized. Kids insult their parents and parents aren’t parenting.

Is it any wonder that people in America and Western Europe have stopped going to Church or have become Sunday only Christians? They were gradually led away from their faith in God to imitating what their neighbors were doing in the mistaken belief that by imitating them, they would be happier, life would be easier and problems could be solved with little fuss.

But there are still those who follow what the Bible teaches and who ignore the noise coming from the TV, movies, magazines and the radio.

God bless,
Ed
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Exactly.👍 Catholics are evangelizing, but not in the way in which evangelicals do. I’m always getting solicitions for Catholic groups that do missionary activity. Another problem is that there are too many angry ex-Catholics who love bashing the Church and too many lasped Catholic who think of themselves as such when they don’t believe anything. I think that the hierarchical nature of the Church aggravates many Baby Boomers who like to think of themselves as being “open-minded,” which is why ex-Catholics are angrier when compared to ex-Methodists (for example).
 
To say that we are not involved in evangelization seems a bit myopic. I, as well as many I know are involved in Family Catechesis. This involves 3 things. Knowing your faith. Living your faith and Teaching your Faith. That sounds like evangelization to me. If you outwardly live your faith, you will attract people. Thats where teaching and explaining comes in. It is much more than standing on a street corner.
Prayers & Blessings
Deacon Ed B
 
Deacon_Ed_B said:
To say that we are not involved in evangelization seems a bit myopic. I, as well as many I know are involved in Family Catechesis. This involves 3 things. Knowing your faith. Living your faith and Teaching your Faith. That sounds like evangelization to me. If you outwardly live your faith, you will attract people. Thats where teaching and explaining comes in. It is much more than standing on a street corner.
Prayers & Blessings
Deacon Ed B
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Where are the active missions to spread the Gospel to non-Catholics and non-believers? Has it mutated to something other than it was for the first 1700 years or so (IE reaching to those outside the church)? Are we actively engaged in the spreading the message of “Fullness of Truth” or have just taken a passive approach and hope people come to us by osmosis and observation?
 
I have been involved with missions in many countries. So have many you obviously don’t know about. If you want to join the crowd, seek involvement with different organizations. Catholic relief services would be an excellent start.
prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
 
Deacon_Ed_B said:
I have been involved with missions in many countries. So have many you obviously don’t know about. If you want to join the crowd, seek involvement with different organizations. Catholic relief services would be an excellent start.
prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
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Forget about missions in foreign countries. What missions here in the good ole USA that are being done as noted here:

**
Where are the active missions to spread the Gospel to non-Catholics and non-believers? Has it mutated to something other than it was for the first 1700 years or so (IE reaching to those outside the church)? Are we actively engaged in the spreading the message of “Fullness of Truth” or have just taken a passive approach and hope people come to us by osmosis and observation?
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**
 
Catholic relief services would be an excellent start.

That is not an active mission to spread the Gospel. It is at best a passive method. Where are those missions that whose sole mission is to spread the “Fullness of Truth” and the “Gospel of Jesus Christ”
 
What are you doing to seek out domestic organizations or religious orders that are involved in this. What are you doing to accomplish this. What is your involvement.
Prayers & Blessings
Deacon Ed B
 
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