C
Chancellare
Guest
And your church is…
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S
SIA
Guest
how about “Church”, it’s going to be Christ’s own and not an institution.Let’s be more direct here:
Which of the two are you trying to point out:
or
- “church” …means it’s going to be anything but RC?
- “church” … means it’s going to be non-Catholic?
S
SIA
Guest
For the same reason that they also don’t hold to be true what the Roman Catholic church is. It’s either truth or its not. Many of them actually DO get that. What about the Eastern Orthodox church? For the most part, they don’t hold much in the Roman church to be valid.
R
ralphinal
Guest
Do you mean in doctrine or in application?
Most of the doctrines are the same. Some are not. Some EO hold that the Catholic Church does not have valid orders, but that is not a unanimous postion.
Real Presence, INtercession of the Saints, Perpetual Virginity, Apostolic Sucession, and more are in common.
N
NonCatholic
Guest
Well said! Luke and believers.
N
NonCatholic
Guest
Jesus said, ‘When he, the Spirit of truth. has come, he will guide you into all truth’ (John 16:13). The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of truth. He is truth essentially in himself, and he is the one who leads the church (Not the RCC (institution), the "body of believers"made up of individuals) into all truth.
But what does Jesus mean by ‘all truth’? He does not mean ‘all truth’ absolutely. The Holy Spirit’s work is not to lead us into all historical, geographical, astronomical and mathematical truth. The Holy Spirit is to lead us into all truth concerning the mysteries of the kingdom of God, of the gospel, of the counsel of God about the salvation of the church by Christ (Acts 20:27). The Holy Spirit will lead us into all truth necessary for faith and obedience (Acts 20:21).
The great promise of the New Testament is that all believers shall be ‘taught by God’ (John 6:45; see also 1 Thess. 4:9). No man is self-taught in sacred things.
Who will the Holy Spirit teach? He will teach those who are meek and humble, those who give themselves to continual prayer, meditation and study in God’s Word day and night, and those who strive to conform their lives to the truths he instructs them in. Because these are hard conditions to flesh and blood, there are few who apply to study in the school of God.
THE NATURE OF THIS WORK OF THE SPIRIT
The Holy Spirit does this work by teaching ‘The unction teaches you.’ This does not refer to his direct inspiration, that is, his bringing new sacred truths from God directly to the minds of men. This is how he taught the apostles and prophets (1 Pet. 1:11-12; 2 Pet. 1:21). Nor does God grant new revelations to preserve his people from error. God has made sufficient provision in his Word for that (Isa. 8:20; 2 Pet. 1:19).
The teaching referred to is his enabling us to discern, know and understand the mind and will of God as revealed in the Scriptures.
It is not enough simply to know the truth. We must also be assured in our minds that we do really know it (Eph. 4:14; Col. 2:2). This assurance is given by the Holy Spirit ‘who is truth and is not a lie’. There is no possibility of anyone being deceived in what he is taught by this ‘unction’. The Holy Spirit gives to believers a secret witness to what he teaches, along with his teachings (1 John 5:6). There is a special power accompanying the teaching of God by his Spirit (Job 36:22; John 6:45). **So whoever is taught in this way certainly believes the things he is taught, having the evidence of the truth of them in himself (1 John 5:10).
**
**Spiritual sense and judgment are able to discern the divine evidences in the things the Holy Spirit teaches **(Heb. 5:14). This is what gives the mind the highest assurance of the truth that it is able to have in this world.
Each believer is led into all the truth necessary to his own state and condition, to enable him to do his duty and work (Eph. 4:7). Christ gives to each according to his measure and needs.
I hope this is sufficient to answer your question…there is a lot more that can be said in regards to this. I hope you do not find this “laughable at best” and see the error in your thinking concerning the importance of having a deeper understanding and knowledge of God’s Word.
Deuteronomy 6:6-9 "These words, which I am commanding you today, shall be on your heart. 7 "You shall teach them diligently to your sons and shall talk of them when you sit in your house and when you walk by the way and when you lie down and when you rise up. 8 "You shall bind them as a sign on your hand and they shall be as frontals on your forehead. 9 “You shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.”
R
ralphinal
Guest
So, non-Catholic, you can show us, using works with citations, historical proof that your version of Christianity has existed since Pentecost?
N
NonCatholic
Guest
There is only one Christianity found in the person of Jesus Christ, which started His NT church on the day of Pentecost. That is a historical and accurate fact given in the word of God.
R
ralphinal
Guest
Interesting. Very interesting.
I do not disagree at all.
Now, how about your denomination?
N
NonCatholic
Guest
R
ralphinal
Guest
N
NonCatholic
Guest
I pray God will penetrate your harded-heart; less you should die in your sin.Non-C, many many Christians over the centuries have been illiterate. Their ability to study scripture in the manner that you or I might was seriously compromised as a result of being unable to read. But their ability to know God certainly wasn’t. Scripture, again, is NOT the be-all and end-all.
And I’m not insulting anyone by saying so - surely you don’t think the Author of scripture gave us nothing more than squiggles on a page? Of course not. He left us written AND unwritten teaching, and His own Holy Spirit, passed on from generation to generation, which needs no words at all to teach us.
Now since you’re the one who’s so big on knowing scripture, what gives with not being able to recognise an NT quote (from one of Paul’s letters to Timothy) when you see one? If your knowledge of scripture has gaps then you are the one who needs to address them by consulting the Good Book. I’m not going to do your homework for you.
THis, from Acts 17, is what the Bereans did after their supposedly enlightening consultation of scripture - do you really want to be like them?
" 13But when the Jews of Thessalonica had knowledge that the word of God was preached of Paul at Berea, they came thither also, and stirred up the people …
14And then immediately the brethren sent away Paul to go as it were to the sea: but Silas and Timotheus abode there still. "
You really want to be like these persecutors of Paul?
So much good their scripture reading did them. Like Peter says, they are among the ignorant who twist the scriptures to their own destruction, obviously.
N
NonCatholic
Guest
I’ve been hearing a voice…oohhhooohoo
John 18:37b “For this I have been born, and for this I have come into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice.”
R
ralphinal
Guest
Good point.
But, did Jesus not pray that we all be ONE as he and the Father are one?
Are we one?
If not, what went wrong with Jesus’s prayer?
L
LilyM
Guest
Interesting that you list yourself as having no religion at all - not even the religion of Christianity.
“And the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch.” (Acts 11:25) So you aren’t a disciple, then? Thank God one of us is proud to call herself a (Catholic) Christian at least
‘Whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father
which is in heaven’ Matt 10:33
The feeling is entirely mutual.
“Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he imagine himself to be wise.” (Prov 26:5)
S
SteveGC
Guest
Ok. Clump Catholics into the “disunified interpretation” cesspool if you insist.
All you are proving is that the Holy Spirit is the author and conveyor of disunity, of confusion. Nevermind that souls are on the line. I’m sure the Holy Spirit intends to have only a select few, like yourself and a few others who happen to share all your salvific beliefs, enlightened by the truth. The rest of us, Catholic and non-Catholic alike, who don’t hold to all your salvific theology, we are just misguided fools either just listening to humans, or God is not revealing His Truth to us just yet. Just you and handful your like-minded saints. Is that your theory?
:::sigh:::: You’re making my point for me. Of course truth for us isn’t a universal, multi-disciplinary truth. We don’t get all the answers to all the questions. Of course it is centered on the Gospel, and especially on our salvation. That’s MY point. And so, what of this salvific enlightenment? If we’re guided into all truth by the Holy Spirit, why is YOUR version of salvific truth, different from mine, different from the other non-denoms down the block? Why?
I’ll tell you why…because the Holy Spirit doesn’t reveal these truths to individuals on a read-your-bible-and-I’ll-reveal-it-to-you way. He reveals it through Christ’s Church. I know you don’t feel arrogant when you claim to have all this truth independent of others who disagree with you. I know you THINK it’s not arrogant to “feel” like you have the truth. But you are a pope unto yourself, a dangerous proposition.
Sure, the Holy Spirit (through prayerful discernment) will help reveal the will of God to you, teach you (and exhort you in) how to grow in your faith, how to apply the teachings of Christ in your daily life, understand the essence of Scripture within the doctrinal guidelines and interpretive boundaries of revealed truth. But this truth is NOT revealed to you **independent **of The Church. If it were, then you would have a great many like you who would hold to **all the essential salvific teachings **that YOU do. Many do not. Most do not. You have to somehow reconcile that reality.
No one is denying the power of the Holy Spirit. On the contrary, His divine ultimate power is what guides the entire Kingdom of God on earth - the Catholic Church…wherein NO doctrine regarding salvation (or any other teaching on faith and morals) is inconsistent, as it comes from Christ’s revealed Truth Himself, through His apostles. Your “body of believers” all disagree with you. Where is your church, invisible as it is? Where is it’s unity of belief in salvation? Are you their leader (you alone with all your personally interpreted understanding)? You have a big responsibility if this is your position.
And please don’t try to “teach” a devout Catholic the essence of the Holy Spirit, as if we rely on man to guide us into all truth. My friend, WE rely on Christ, and the Holy Spirit as it is first unified with The Church, and subsequently to all of the faithful (US) in our devotions and reading and prayers. I just ask that you think hard about what you are claiming. That YOU have the truth about salvation of souls. The millions of Catholics? Nope. Millions of non-Catholics who believe in some aspect of salvation different from you? Nope. Pretty much just you, as far as you know. What a privilege, sir. Congratulations, I would say.
N
NonCatholic
Guest
That is the problem, you try to go the narrow door with all you friends, but it only admits one at a time without the baggage.
Matt 7:13-14
N
NonCatholic
Guest
Is Christianity a religion or a person?
N
NonCatholic
Guest
When are you going to get serious about reading and STUDYING the word of God, so you can quit making such foolish arguments. And if you say you already do, then it would be of grave concern to me.
Also, I do believe some Catholics do not see through the rituals and theatrics and are part of the elect.
W
wisdomseeker
Guest
Hunmm!!!
apparently reading and studying the Word of God has not done much good for you. i see you are still outside the gate.
“I should not believe the Gospel except as moved by the authority of the Catholic Church.”
Saint Augustine (354-430), Against the Letter of Mani, 5,6, 397 A.D… ****
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