Where did YOU get your authority?

[With_Questions]

Also, see post #55, "It is those who treat it (referring to the Bible), as you seem to, as an end (or nearly and end) in itself, who have the superficial belief - the belief that a series of black or red squiggles on a paper constitute a complete or nearly complete basis for knowing God.

Actually I don’t disagree with this either.

The objective of Christianity is not head knowledge of the Bible. It is possible to know the Bible in the head from Genesis to Revelation and to completely miss knowing the Lord Jesus Christ through who graciously provided us the Bible.

I have Catholics on my banned list for condescension in presuming to know the state of my eternal soul. If I were Catholic, by my same criteria, you would be on my banned list.

 

[NonCatholic]

First of all, how is this statement “blaspheming the Bible”? Are you sure you might not be misunderstanding what she is saying? Have you asked her to clarify this statement before you launched into a diatribe of judging her eternal soul? Have you ever thought to consider that maybe anonymous posting over the internet might be easily misunderstood.

Actually I think I agree with this statement, if I understand what she is saying. I think that she is just saying that Bible study is not the primary objective of the Christian faith. Objective? The primary objective is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, which the word of God leads us into…What is your primary objective? I agree with this.

At any rate, what authority do you have to judge the eternal soul of an anonomous poster of the internet that you have absolutely no personal knowledge of? Has God given you a specific word of knowledge on the eternal condition of an anomous persons soul? If not, how do you know?

I kind of like to leave that job up to the Lord Jesus Christ myself.

Read post #136 and #137 and you will see the proper context of the issue.

Why do you judge me for judging?

 

[With_Questions]

**Jesus actually commands us to judge. **

Actually I agree with this statement.

We *can/I] judge objective evil. We can with full confidence say that abortion, homosexuality, murder, etc. are sin based on God’s word.

What we can not judge are the thoughts and intentions of another person’s heart. Neither can we definitely presume final judgement on their eternal soul. This judgement is the prerogative of the the Lord God alone.

And even if I am wrong in this, and the Lord Jesus Christ did give us this authority, I would never presume to use this authority based on anonymous posts over the internet on someone I have absolutely no personal knowledge of. That would be the height of presumption on my part.*

 

[ralphinal]

So if all Christians are of one mind and one spirit, we all have one faith. Right?

 

[With_Questions]

Read post #136 and #137 and you will see the proper context of the issue.

Why do you judge me for judging?

I am not judging the state of your eternal soul, neither am I judging the thoughts and intentions of your heart.

I am judging the objective act that you did of presuming to know the status of somebodys eternal soul and judging the thoughts and intentions of their heart based on an anonymous post over the internet. That act is objectively wrong, and I am calling you out on it.

 

[MelanieAnne]

I would never presume to use this authority based on anonymous posts over the internet on someone I have absolutely no personal knowledge of. That would be the height of presumption on my part.

It might also be arrogant and prideful and a host of other sins but as you have noted, only God knows what is in our hearts.

Indeed, this is why we are asked to lift up our hearts, and not our faces. Anyone can put on a false outward appearance, but we cannot hide what is in our hearts from God.

As for whether we have a right to judge ~ yes ~ we can often identify and avoid evil but we have absolutely no right to judge what is in another’s heart. But there are none so blind as those who will not see, or words to that effect.

 

[RobHom]

**Jesus actually commands us to judge. ** Matt 7:1-6 1 "Do not judge so that you will not be judged. 2 "For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. 3 "Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 4 "Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ and behold, the log is in your own eye? 5 "You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye. 6 "Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.

I fear my friend, that wherever you got those “scriptures” from was inaccurate at best. Whomever “edited” the language virtually changed the meaning of what Christ said. Please see the following:

From here: drbo.org/chapter/47007.htm

**1 Judge not, that you may not be judged, 2 For with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged: and with what measure you mete, it shall be measured to you again. 3 Any why seest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye; and seest not the beam that is in thy own eye? 4 Or how sayest thou to thy brother: Let me cast the mote out of thy eye; and behold a beam is in thy own eye? 5 Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam in thy own eye, and then shalt thou see to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.

6 Give not that which is holy to dogs; neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest perhaps they trample them under their feet, and turning upon you, they tear you. **

Do you see the difference? Christ is saying that you do not judge others… What you have is the problem with modernistic revisionism of scriptures, that often turn out very badly.

The Scriptures that I quoted an the source is the Douay-Rheims Bible, which is translated from the Latin Vulgate. Very accurate.

Melanie, It is great that you are questioning what you see and read…keep it up!

Yes Melanie, keep it up…it seems that you have pretty good grip on reality where Scriptures and your faith are concerned!!

 

[look3467]

1Co 10:29 Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another man’s conscience?

Is it not wonderful how God has addressed every whim?

We are all interested in God to one degree or another so why not entertain one another to the opportunity to witness of the love of God which is in us?

What! Are we so righteous that we become puffed up with pride in knowledge that we check our hearts at the front cover of the word of God?

I would that I heard only the love manifestation of God in one’s life, than the declarations of a high and lofty attitude.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[RobHom]

Also, see post #55, "It is those who treat it (referring to the Bible), as you seem to, as an end (or nearly and end) in itself, who have the superficial belief - the belief that a series of black or red squiggles on a paper constitute a complete or nearly complete basis for knowing God.

And yet it would seem that this is the very premise and basis for those who adhere to sola whatever…to define all knowledge of God.

 

[MelanieAnne]

Yes Melanie, questioning leads to understanding, but misunderstanding leads to folly… Caution in interpretation is paramount to prevent misunderstanding.

Rob, please don’t confuse me with NonCatholic. Thank You.

 

[RobHom]

Rob, please don’t confuse me with NonCatholic. Thank You.

My bad, I misunderstood!! I already fixed it!!

 

[look3467]

And yet it would seem that this is the very premise and basis for those who adhere to sola whatever…to define all knowledge of God.>>>RobHom

If the spirit of God dwells in us, a misunderstanding is forgivable, for that is the basis for learning.

If we had no trials, tribulations and or misunderstandings, we would not grow.

Rom 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
Rom 5:4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
Rom 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[LilyM]

And to think there was no New Testament for you to worship until the Catholic Church established its canon.

Put it this way, you can hurl insults at Mary or the Church all day, because I don’t WORSHIP either the Blessed Mother or Holy Mother Church I could never and would never define it as BLASPHEMY

Blasphemy means you’re insulting a divinity and Mary and the Church ain’t divinities. The Bible isn’t a divinity either, so please stop putting it up on the same level as God.

The Bible IS sacred and holy, but so are you as a child of God and if I insult YOU 'tain’t blasphemy.

For all your reading, you’re grabbing the wrong end of the stick. The Apostles didn’t even HAVE a New Testament and they got along just fine. Scripture is a starting point, and you’re still stuck at the start, Non-C.

 

[SteveGC]

AJ,

No one here denies what you are trying to preach, which is a beautiful message of God’s love, made manifest in all of us. And perhaps you are just trying to be the peacemaker…or perhaps you are trying to disprove the Catholic faith. I can’t quite figure you out just yet.

But as you insist that truth is not the bible itself, but rather what is revealed in the bible, you may not realize that all of us understand that. Well, atleast Catholics understand it…probably most non-Catholics, save some that are so heavily into bibliolatry, it isn’t funny.

You’ve also made some points about how you “know” the interpretations of scripture by way of a revealed “feeling” in you that God is with you, and is revealing truth to you. I would only agree with you up to a certain point…right up until you start declaring for yourself doctrinal decrees about faith and morals. By faith, I primarily mean salvific doctrine, what one must do to be saved. You cannot get this from scripture, AJ. You can only confirm what you have already been taught by someone this side of heaven…not the Holy Spirit. If the Holy Spirit did this for you, He would’ve done it for all who seek His guidance through scripture. And we all know that so many of us have different understandings. Beyond all that, you preach a lovely message…but you should know…you’re probably preaching to the choir about the Love that is God.

God Bless

 

[NonCatholic]

AJ,

No one here denies what you are trying to preach, which is a beautiful message of God’s love, made manifest in all of us. And perhaps you are just trying to be the peacemaker…or perhaps you are trying to disprove the Catholic faith. I can’t quite figure you out just yet.

But as you insist that truth is not the bible itself, but rather what is revealed in the bible, you may not realize that all of us understand that. Well, atleast Catholics understand it…probably most non-Catholics, save some that are so heavily into bibliolatry, it isn’t funny.

You’ve also made some points about how you “know” the interpretations of scripture by way of a revealed “feeling” in you that God is with you, and is revealing truth to you. I would only agree with you up to a certain point…right up until you start declaring for yourself doctrinal decrees about faith and morals. By faith, I primarily mean salvific doctrine, what one must do to be saved. You cannot get this from scripture, AJ. You can only confirm what you have already been taught by someone this side of heaven…not the Holy Spirit. If the Holy Spirit did this for you, He would’ve done it for all who seek His guidance through scripture. And we all know that so many of us have different understandings. Beyond all that, you preach a lovely message…but you should know…you’re probably preaching to the choir about the Love that is God.

God Bless

The Holy Spirit will reveal this truth, but you must dig deep in your understanding of Scripture and apply what you have learned and walk in spirit and truth…the more you live this the more that God is faithful to reveal some of the deeper truths in Scripture.

 

[look3467]

But as you insist that truth is not the bible itself, but rather what is revealed in the bible, you may not realize that all of us understand that. Well, at least Catholics understand it…probably most non-Catholics, save some that are so heavily into bibliolatry, it isn’t funny.>>>Steve

I am not so sure that your speaking for the whole body of Catholics as understanding truth as revealed in the bible.

For the church doctrine is set above that of what the bible says in this fashion: that no one can privately interpret the bible without the Churches interpretation.

My message is, that the bible itself as compiled together, gives light to a dead spirit which is in us which in turn revives us to new life in Jesus.

The church as per catholic definition does not give life but rather leads to, points to the life giver: Jesus.

My understanding of life is greater than anything on earth physical because it is not in temples made by man, but rather in the hearts of man where God finds rest.

One may not realize how God works to bring about revelations to us concerning His truths.

As an example, last night my wife and I went to my daughter an son-in-laws house to play a game of cards.
While we played, I slipped a little more spirit drink than I should have and found myself very happy but under not full control.

So, I left my truck there and my wife drove us back home of which I soundly slept.
The next morning my son-in-law picked me up to go retrieve my truck, but not before stopping at Barns and Nobel for a book for his son.
While browsing around I found a book on the Gnostic Gospels including the Gospel of Thomas and the Gospel of Mary.

Did I have to go through all that in order for God to place that bok in my hands?

That goes to show that God works in mysterious ways, had I not had spiritual insight to recognize it, I would have never given it a second thought, much less praise God for His wonderful love.

Having said all that, let me tell you how some of those writings in that book confirms my understandings.

Here is a quote from that book “It is impossible to see what exists, unless one becomes similar”…(The Gospel of Philip by Alan Jacobs)

In essence, in order for us to see what is spiritual, we must ourselves become spiritual.

What we cannot see we must become, for the world can only see what is, but can not become what is, therefore can not understand it.

If I wanted to communicate with the ants, I must become one.

Similarly, if I want to communicate with God spiritual, I must become a spiritual person and only if I identify with Christ can I become one with Him.

Christ then rebirths my dead spirit and I become a new creature of which is one inwardly spiritual.

Do I need anything else? No! For I am made whole in Him and nothing can take me away form Him.

If we can not see the spiritual life in each one of us, we must not then be spiritual ourselves.

In all these discussions, I can see life in all of you simply because you are all seeking Gods truths regardless of what denomination you may espouse.

Here is another thought from that same book "…In this world slaves serve the free; in heaven the free will minister to the slaves…(The Gospel of Philip by Alan Jacobs)

We, as humble, free, serve the ones enslaved by this world, who are clouded by/in deception, engulfed in confusion, and by us leading them to see in themselves what is in us: God.

You’ve also made some points about how you “know” the interpretations of scripture by way of a revealed “feeling” in you that God is with you, and is revealing truth to you. I would only agree with you up to a certain point…right up until you start declaring for yourself doctrinal decrees about faith and morals. By faith, I primarily mean salvific doctrine, what one must do to be saved. You cannot get this from scripture, AJ. You can only confirm what you have already been taught by someone this side of heaven…not the Holy Spirit. If the Holy Spirit did this for you, He would’ve done it for all who seek His guidance through scripture. And we all know that so many of us have different understandings. Beyond all that, you preach a lovely message…but you should know…you’re probably preaching to the choir about the Love that is God.>>>Steve

Without the Holy Spirits intervention in our hearts, non of us would be able to even say the name of Jesus with passion.

The Holy Spirit is not something beyond our reach and comprehension, for the life of God is His holy Spirit and the life in us is God.

How could we not say that we are led of the Holy Spirit?

One need not be of some pompous stature, of some high level official or of renown but of …: Isa 57:15 For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name [is] Holy; I dwell in the high and holy [place], with him also [that is] of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.
…to realize the Holy Spirits gentleness tugging at our hearts strings and making of us as He is, spiritual creatures.

Perhaps some of this maybe a little deep for some, but surely, God is in the works of binging us salvation via His Holy Spirit.

You are aware of God by reason of the Holy Spirit, otherwise, you couldn’t see passed this worlds things.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[NonCatholic]

Actually I agree with this statement.

We *can/I] judge objective evil. We can with full confidence say that abortion, homosexuality, murder, etc. are sin based on God’s word.

What we can not judge are the thoughts and intentions of another person’s heart. Neither can we definitely presume final judgement on their eternal soul. This judgement is the prerogative of the the Lord God alone.

And even if I am wrong in this, and the Lord Jesus Christ did give us this authority, I would never presume to use this authority based on anonymous posts over the internet on someone I have absolutely no personal knowledge of. That would be the height of presumption on my part.*

You misunderstand the context of the judging, I never said she was without hope and that I can condemn her, that would be a worse offense by taking the place of Jesus, which I could not! However, she has a low view of Scripture, probably in place of the RCC teachings…I can’t say that for sure because it was only implicit…as a result we have no gospel or another gospel and Scripture says that person is cursed. By the way, we can pronounce judgment on someone that we give the gospel to and if they reject it…“you are bound to your sins” and if they accept it “you are losed from your sins”. Matt 18

Hope this clarifies.

 

[wisdomseeker]

I am not so sure that your speaking for the whole body of Catholics as understanding truth as revealed in the bible.

For the church doctrine is set above that of what the bible says in this fashion: that no one can privately interpret the bible without the Churches interpretation.

My message is, that the bible itself as compiled together, gives light to a dead spirit which is in us which in turn revives us to new life in Jesus.

The church as per catholic definition does not give life but rather leads to, points to the life giver: Jesus.

My understanding of life is greater than anything on earth physical because it is not in temples made by man, but rather in the hearts of man where God finds rest.

One may not realize how God works to bring about revelations to us concerning His truths.

As an example, last night my wife and I went to my daughter an son-in-laws house to play a game of cards.
While we played, I slipped a little more spirit drink than I should have and found myself very happy but under not full control.

So, I left my truck there and my wife drove us back home of which I soundly slept.
The next morning my son-in-law picked me up to go retrieve my truck, but not before stopping at Barns and Nobel for a book for his son.
While browsing around I found a book on the Gnostic Gospels including the Gospel of Thomas and the Gospel of Mary.

Did I have to go through all that in order for God to place that bok in my hands?

That goes to show that God works in mysterious ways, had I not had spiritual insight to recognize it, I would have never given it a second thought, much less praise God for His wonderful love.

Having said all that, let me tell you how some of those writings in that book confirms my understandings.

Here is a quote from that book “It is impossible to see what exists, unless one becomes similar”…(The Gospel of Philip by Alan Jacobs)

In essence, in order for us to see what is spiritual, we must ourselves become spiritual.

What we cannot see we must become, for the world can only see what is, but can not become what is, therefore can not understand it.

If I wanted to communicate with the ants, I must become one.

Similarly, if I want to communicate with God spiritual, I must become a spiritual person and only if I identify with Christ can I become one with Him.

Christ then rebirths my dead spirit and I become a new creature of which is one inwardly spiritual.

Do I need anything else? No! For I am made whole in Him and nothing can take me away form Him.

If we can not see the spiritual life in each one of us, we must not then be spiritual ourselves.

In all these discussions, I can see life in all of you simply because you are all seeking Gods truths regardless of what denomination you may espouse.

Here is another thought from that same book "…In this world slaves serve the free; in heaven the free will minister to the slaves…(The Gospel of Philip by Alan Jacobs)

We, as humble, free, serve the ones enslaved by this world, who are clouded by/in deception, engulfed in confusion, and by us leading them to see in themselves what is in us: God.

Without the Holy Spirits intervention in our hearts, non of us would be able to even say the name of Jesus with passion.

The Holy Spirit is not something beyond our reach and comprehension, for the life of God is His holy Spirit and the life in us is God.

How could we not say that we are led of the Holy Spirit?

One need not be of some pompous stature, of some high level official or of renown but of …: Isa 57:15 For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name [is] Holy; I dwell in the high and holy [place], with him also [that is] of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.
…to realize the Holy Spirits gentleness tugging at our hearts strings and making of us as He is, spiritual creatures.

Perhaps some of this maybe a little deep for some, but surely, God is in the works of binging us salvation via His Holy Spirit.

You are aware of God by reason of the Holy Spirit, otherwise, you couldn’t see passed this worlds things.

Peace>>>AJ

:clapping: :clapping:

now. according to you the Sacred Scriptures contradicts itself.

for example, what was said 2000, 1000, 500 years ago by our Lord no longer counts. according to you it is I now who decide what Jesus meant when He said what He said.

if the Church was relevant then, today she no longer is. it is i who decide for the HS tells me today it is a different story.

correct me if i am wrong.

Obey our Lord and Obey His Church always.

 

[With_Questions]

You misunderstand the context of the judging, I never said she was without hope and that I can condemn her, that would be a worse offense by taking the place of Jesus, which I could not! However, she has a low view of Scripture, probably in place of the RCC teachings…I can’t say that for sure because it was only implicit…as a result we have no gospel or another gospel and Scripture says that person is cursed. By the way, we can pronounce judgment on someone that we give the gospel to and if they reject it…“you are bound to your sins” and if they accept it “you are losed from your sins”. Matt 18

Hope this clarifies.

But your words were

I pray God will penetrate your harded-heart; less you should die in your sin.

That is not the same as saying “You have a low view of Scripture”.

The first is an implied judgement on ones eternal soul. The second is a judgement on ones view of Scripture.

I would not be having this discussion if your response had been the second.

 

[elvisman]

You misunderstand the context of the judging, I never said she was without hope and that I can condemn her, that would be a worse offense by taking the place of Jesus, which I could not! However, she has a low view of Scripture, probably in place of the RCC teachings…I can’t say that for sure because it was only implicit…as a result we have no gospel or another gospel and Scripture says that person is cursed. By the way, we can pronounce judgment on someone that we give the gospel to and if they reject it…“you are bound to your sins” and if they accept it “you are losed from your sins”. Matt 18

Hope this clarifies.

Show me - in Scripture - where it says that anybody has the right ro condemn anybody’s soul. Binding and loosing are not the same as condemning. Besides, Jesus gave this gift directly to his apostles - not to all of his believers. (Matt 16-19, Matt 18:18, John 20:22-23)

The Church, in the 2000 years since she was established by our Lord Jesus has never made the claim that anybody is in hell.
Who gave you that right?