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nancy_dalrymple
Guest
I had a few people ask me this question and I said I would ask the forum members because I thought they went to heaven. Dont they? And where in the bible is that?
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passus
Guest
The Church has not authoritatively defined the fate of infants who die before having been baptized although the position theologians seem to be taking right now is that the unbaptized babies do go to Heaven.
Scripture is silent on the matter except for what we can gather from Jesus’s words in the Gospel According to Saint Matthew, which are quoted in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
The *Catechism *offers:
As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus’ tenderness toward children which caused him to say: “Let the children come to me, do not hinder them,” allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism (1261).
If you are interested in reading more on this topic, you might find the following tracts helpful:
I hope that helps clear things up.
Scripture is silent on the matter except for what we can gather from Jesus’s words in the Gospel According to Saint Matthew, which are quoted in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
The *Catechism *offers:
As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus’ tenderness toward children which caused him to say: “Let the children come to me, do not hinder them,” allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism (1261).
If you are interested in reading more on this topic, you might find the following tracts helpful:
- Out On a Limbo
- Let the Children Come to Me
- An Excerpt from “The Hope of Salvation for Infants…”
- Limbo in Limbo? by Jimmy Akin
I hope that helps clear things up.
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stringbeanduck
Guest
Nothing is more humble, faithful, and innocent as child. I’ve been taught that because of this trait they hold babies and young children are baptized by baptism of desire if the don’t receive one done by a human. This is what I heard.
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thistle
Guest
Who are “they” and who taught you this?
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Shlomey
Guest
Does the Church not define in as de fide that baptism with water is necessary for all **without exception **for their salvation?
If yes, then it only follows as a logical conclusion that we cannot say that anyone who dies unbaptized will be saved.
I think the thread where this was discussed yesterday simply disappeared…
Since the dogma then speaks of **baptism with water **/baptismus fluminis, I wonder how that correlates to baptism of desire or by blood…
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thistle
Guest
To Shlomey:
Where does the Church teach “define in as de fide that baptism with water is necessary for all without exception for their salvation?”
It teaches baptism is necessary but not baptism with water without exception.
THE NECESSITY OF BAPTISM
CCC 1257 The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation. He also commands his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all nations and to baptize them. Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament. The Church does not know of any means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude; this is why she takes care not to neglect the mission she has received from the Lord to see that all who can be baptized are “reborn of water and the Spirit.” God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.
CCC 1258 The Church has always held the firm conviction that those who suffer death for the sake of the faith without having received Baptism are baptized by their death for and with Christ. This Baptism of blood, like the desire for Baptism, brings about the fruits of Baptism without being a sacrament.
CCC 1259 For catechumens who die before their Baptism, their explicit desire to receive it, together with repentance for their sins, and charity, assures them the salvation that they were not able to receive through the sacrament.
CCC 1260 "Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery."Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity.
CCC 1261 As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus’ tenderness toward children which caused him to say: "Let the children come to me, do not hinder them,"allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is the Church’s call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of holy Baptism.
Where does the Church teach “define in as de fide that baptism with water is necessary for all without exception for their salvation?”
It teaches baptism is necessary but not baptism with water without exception.
THE NECESSITY OF BAPTISM
CCC 1257 The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation. He also commands his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all nations and to baptize them. Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament. The Church does not know of any means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude; this is why she takes care not to neglect the mission she has received from the Lord to see that all who can be baptized are “reborn of water and the Spirit.” God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.
CCC 1258 The Church has always held the firm conviction that those who suffer death for the sake of the faith without having received Baptism are baptized by their death for and with Christ. This Baptism of blood, like the desire for Baptism, brings about the fruits of Baptism without being a sacrament.
CCC 1259 For catechumens who die before their Baptism, their explicit desire to receive it, together with repentance for their sins, and charity, assures them the salvation that they were not able to receive through the sacrament.
CCC 1260 "Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery."Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity.
CCC 1261 As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus’ tenderness toward children which caused him to say: "Let the children come to me, do not hinder them,"allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is the Church’s call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of holy Baptism.
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Shlomey
Guest
This is what I found yesterday and tried to discuss whether it is right or wrong:
source:
theworkofgod.org/dogmas.htm#Dogma-IX-Baptism
The same statement I found on a German website:
paxetbonum.de/index.php/2007/01/25/zweihundertfuenfundvierzig/
another source without mention of exclusivity of water:
source:
catecheticsonline.com/SourcesofDogma7.php
Perhaps the English and German sites got it wrong?
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stringbeanduck
Guest
From CCD about a year back. I know there’s no doctrine behind this.
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Seatuck
Guest
The truth is that we do not know for sure what happens to infants who die unbaptized . We may hope that they go to heaven. We should trust them to the mercy of God.
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/cti_documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20070419_un-baptised-infants_en.html
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/cti_documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20070419_un-baptised-infants_en.html
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trustinyou
Guest
i have heard of limbo before,but it never was considered truth…
i also read an article a few mths ago were the pope said that the unbaptised children were covered with the blood of Jesus…
i believe the unborn are coverd by His blood to…
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CapIV
Guest
The short answer is, we don’t know.
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nancy_dalrymple
Guest
That’s funny I heard of that when I was a child My mother usto say that I believe like you
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DD2007
Guest
They are left to the judgement of God.
No one knows what happens to them. God has a plan for everything so we know that their fate is good because God is good.
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nancy_dalrymple
Guest
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