Where do I go from here?

[DarkLight]

I’m in RCIA and set to join the church at easter. The troueble is…I honestly feel like I’m not learning anything or getting questions answered. I’m back at the same spot that I was a year ago before I started any of this.

The classes themselves are very shallow. They’re using the YouCat book that’s designed for children - I read through it in a day, there was nothing new in it. I’m not particularly comfortable raising questions in class, and the times I have asked questions I’ve felt like I got incredibly basic answers.

I have questions - a lot of them. Many that I haven’t been able to find answers to even in actual church documents. But I just don’t know where to go to get them answered. I have a strong interest in church history and the older customs, but don’t feel welcome with the other people that are interested. I have my own experiences that I want to talk about, but I don’t know where to go. The whole thing is just confusing, I feel like I’m being thrown out on my own because the planned program does nothing. Where do I go to learn more?

 

[MichaelHowling]

THis site is a good place to start…there are some VERY knowledgeable people here!

Here is an AWSOME site that has LOADS of catholic info …they actually teach numerous classes online for free on all kinds of subjects including a good bible study!

www.salvationhistory.com

I’d be more than happy to answer some questions for you too! YOu can always message me here or email: MichaelHowling@gmail.com

God bless, Michael

God always finds a way.

 

[Julia_Mae]

THis site is a good place to start…there are some VERY knowledgeable people here!

Here is an AWSOME site that has LOADS of catholic info …they actually teach numerous classes online for free on all kinds of subjects including a good bible study!

www.salvationhistory.com

I just want to point out that the site is essentially a Scott Hahn project. Lots of people like him. I’m not one. Options for OP certainly include Catholic Answers, also a guided retreat, also just reading the Catchechism and actually finding and reading the footnotes material.

The Vatican 2 documents are excellent. There are rather a lot of books on Church history. Everything Pope Benedict XVI has ever written.

 

[klm120861]

I am a convert, and my RCIA program was also pretty basic. I would be happy to answer any questions you might have as well. I was received into the Church in 2008. Currently I am on the teaching team for our Foundations of Faith class, which is kind of like…advanced RCIA for Catholics, I guess. I’ll be the first to admit I may not know the answers to all of your questions, but I know some really good brains to pick!
You can pm me or email me at klm120861@yahoo.com
I will be praying for you on your journey!
Kris

 

[DarkLight]

Thanks everyone. I…honestly I don’t feel like the problem is really in understanding the theology. I can get lots and lots of facts. But I’m not getting answers with just facts. Like, an example I have: I really want to feel connected to the history of the church. But I’m also deeply disturbed by much of what I read about women in the writings of the saints, and the attitudes I find even now among many of the more conservative elements that seem to be the primary ones surrounding the traditional forms. I don’t know how to reconcile the two, and it leaves me feeling very much that I’m unwelcome wherever I go within the church.

Same thing with much of the experiental stuff. Simply put, no one ever talks about religious experience. Or at least, the people who do seem to have watered it down to such a silly feel-good attitude. Everything just feels so trite and petty, more caught up in political talking points and being on this side or that side, than in relating to their fellow believers. I trust God, but I don’t trust or like religious people, as a general rule, and I haven’t found anyone that’s willing to actually address that and not just brush serious problems aside because they’re not convenient.

 

[jenny2682]

Greetings!

I found that when I went to RCIA they were building a foundation for me to build on. Yes it seemed like we weren’t getting ALL our questions answered but I also realized that I was with 10 other adults who were of various learning capabilities and all were on the same but very different paths. I found this website, EWTN and their programming as well as various books helped fill that void I felt. Also look within your parish/diocese for further educational growth with classes or symposiums. Our faith is so deep and rich–continue to explore!

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Thanks everyone. I…honestly I don’t feel like the problem is really in understanding the theology. I can get lots and lots of facts. But I’m not getting answers with just facts. Like, an example I have: I really want to feel connected to the history of the church. But I’m also deeply disturbed by much of what I read about women in the writings of the saints, and the attitudes I find even now among many of the more conservative elements that seem to be the primary ones surrounding the traditional forms. I don’t know how to reconcile the two, and it leaves me feeling very much that I’m unwelcome wherever I go within the church.

Same thing with much of the experiental stuff. Simply put, no one ever talks about religious experience. Or at least, the people who do seem to have watered it down to such a silly feel-good attitude. Everything just feels so trite and petty, more caught up in political talking points and being on this side or that side, than in relating to their fellow believers. I trust God, but I don’t trust or like religious people, as a general rule, and I haven’t found anyone that’s willing to actually address that and not just brush serious problems aside because they’re not convenient.

A lot of parishes are doing the “Catholicism” series by Fr. Robert Barron - see if yours is, or any near you, and join up. Some are doing small groups, it just depends. I think he will deal with a lot of topics and surely some of them will lead you and others into discussions. I think you need more meat than milk in your walk toward the Church!

 

[red85]

You can ask questions about the Faith here.

You can also take on-line courses in theology.

There are also good Catholic magazines to subscribe to, such as the “the Latin Mass,” or “This Rock” and books, too.

Finally, you could marry an apologist, a theology teacher, or an ex-seminarian. Just kidding.

 

[asia53]

I was in a very similar position, a less than stellar RCIA experience. Very quickly, I found out, I had to study on my own. I read the encyclicals, and letters of our Holy Fathers. I’ve learned quite a bit. However, be patient, understanding isn’t always a “lightbulb going off over your head” moment. It takes time, and further research.

I’ve noticed from your other posts— treatment of women is very important to you. As a woman, I completely understand.

This letter written by Blessed John Paul II to women was an eyeopener for me.

Letter to Women

I forgot to suggest, get in touch with your Archdiocese/Diocese ENDOW (Educating on the Nature and Dignity of Women) group, studies for and given by Catholic women.

ENDOW

 

[klm120861]

But I’m also deeply disturbed by much of what I read about women in the writings of the saints, and the attitudes I find even now among many of the more conservative elements that seem to be the primary ones surrounding the traditional forms. I don’t know how to reconcile the two, and it leaves me feeling very much that I’m unwelcome wherever I go within the church.

Same thing with much of the experiental stuff. Simply put, no one ever talks about religious experience. Or at least, the people who do seem to have watered it down to such a silly feel-good attitude. Everything just feels so trite and petty, more caught up in political talking points and being on this side or that side, than in relating to their fellow believers.

It’s hard to know how best to respond to your questions when they are so generally put, but I will try. If you want to be more specific, I posted my email above, or you can pm me.
One thing to remember when reading the saints, especially in regard to women, is some of their viewpoints reflect the culture of the time. Yet there were some really strong, smart women out there. Read St. Theresa of Avila. Remarkable woman.
From my own experience, I felt called to be a pastor in the Assemblies of God and even completed my studies to be a licensed minister (but couldn’t find a job!). Then God called me to the Catholic Church. What I have found within the Church is vastly different than what I found in the AofG. Especially in the catagory of the experiential.
One thing that I have found withing the Catholic Church is that things are very private. In the AofG everyone talked about their experiences, and problems were presented as “prayer requests”. These frequently took on the form of what I call “Holy Ghost Gossip.” As in, “Please pray for Sally Sue. Her dog ate her cat, the cat ate the bird, her husband left her, her kids are on drugs and she’s had a nervous breakdown.” By the time the friend is done requesting prayer for Sally Sue, you know more about Sally Sue’s life than she ever wanted you to know.
In the Catholic Church, if you are part of the prayer team, you might hear, “Pray for Sally Sue.” That’s it. Her right to privacy is respected. As is yours. As is everyone’s.
I find it’s much the same with religious experiences. People are willing to share, to answer any questions, but they aren’t going to volunteer the information out of the blue.
With RCIA, like the one poster said, everyone is on a different page. In my class, things were basic because most were at the “this is a Bible, and this is how you open it” stage. By the time I started RCIA, I had read some of the early Fathers, as well as Dark Night of the Soul, by St. John of the Cross. Interior Castles, by St. Theresa of Avila, a biography on St. Martin de Porres, and The History of the Catholic Church. (I lived across the street from a library.)
We are here for you, and willing to answer any questions. Also, another good forum site is: The Coming Home Network International Forums. They specifically exist to help people from church backgrounds find answers to the questions that Christian converts have.
As always, I am praying for you on your journey.
Kris

 

[Della]

My experience in RCIA was also rather shallow, although I did learn some things I had never heard before, to give credit where it’s due. Still, I often felt I was more Catholic that some of those leading the class. LOL! It’s because RCIA is led by and large by cradle Catholics who have never asked the kinds of questions converts do nor considered some of the things important to converts. I often think that RCIA ought to be led by converts because of this, but I digress.

What I kept firmly in mind was that I was becoming a Catholic not joining an RCIA class only. I had read enough Catholic apologetics and saints’ writings to understand that the Church is not going to be filled with scholarly people who all know their Bibles and who have attained sainthood and are articulate about the finer points of spirituality. Rather the Church is a family made up of ordinary people who are each on his own path and at very different points along that path. I fully sympathize with homilists who have to try to reach people who know next to nothing sitting next to a person with a degree in Church history.

I suggest reading the writings of the women saints, such as Teresa of Avila, as another person cited, and others. Each, in her own way, had to fight against a prevailing attitude that women are less able than men, which is not Church teaching. You’d probably enjoy reading Catherine of Sienna who stood up to the pope when he needed to be admonished, like St. Paul correcting St. Peter. Or Edith Stein who was martyred in the Holocaust or Bl. Teresa of Calcutta who pulled no punches, either. The Church teaches that women are equal to men in dignity of person, a rather new idea in the world when Jesus gave women the attention they never got before.

Anyway, there’s a wealth of good reading material and we here will discuss whatever you’d like because like you we too love to talk about what God has done for us and how much we love serving him. So feel free to share your concerns and needs, as much/as little as you wish with us.

 

[DarkLight]

I was in a very similar position, a less than stellar RCIA experience. Very quickly, I found out, I had to study on my own. I read the encyclicals, and letters of our Holy Fathers. I’ve learned quite a bit. However, be patient, understanding isn’t always a “lightbulb going off over your head” moment. It takes time, and further research.

I’ve noticed from your other posts— treatment of women is very important to you. As a woman, I completely understand.

This letter written by Blessed John Paul II to women was an eyeopener for me.

Letter to Women

I forgot to suggest, get in touch with your Archdiocese/Diocese ENDOW (Educating on the Nature and Dignity of Women) group, studies for and given by Catholic women.

ENDOW

Thanks. I was a teenaged abuse victim - abuse that was justified and encouraged by pious language and “biblical” teaching. Yes, even by talking about the dignity of women - because it was undignified of a woman to stand up for herself, unbiblical of her to defend her own dignity. Because submission was a duty and modesty was the shield that was supposed to defend women from assault. Because rape and abuse simply weren’t realities to them - they were things modern feminism had come up with, things that simply didn’t happen to good girls.

I’ve seen similar things in many areas. There is a lot of evil that hides itself in pious language. And not only many that hide their own evil, but many more that are truly deceived into calling evil good by leaders who go on about God’s will. I’ve seen much natural goodness and developing virtue smothered by Christian leaders, so busy avoiding sin and all appearance of sin that they killed love and joy. The picture of the Pharisee in the gospel is right on - “Lord I thank the that I am not like other men!”

It’s hard to know how best to respond to your questions when they are so generally put, but I will try. If you want to be more specific, I posted my email above, or you can pm me.
One thing to remember when reading the saints, especially in regard to women, is some of their viewpoints reflect the culture of the time. Yet there were some really strong, smart women out there. Read St. Theresa of Avila. Remarkable woman.
From my own experience, I felt called to be a pastor in the Assemblies of God and even completed my studies to be a licensed minister (but couldn’t find a job!). Then God called me to the Catholic Church. What I have found within the Church is vastly different than what I found in the AofG. Especially in the catagory of the experiential.
One thing that I have found withing the Catholic Church is that things are very private. In the AofG everyone talked about their experiences, and problems were presented as “prayer requests”. These frequently took on the form of what I call “Holy Ghost Gossip.” As in, “Please pray for Sally Sue. Her dog ate her cat, the cat ate the bird, her husband left her, her kids are on drugs and she’s had a nervous breakdown.” By the time the friend is done requesting prayer for Sally Sue, you know more about Sally Sue’s life than she ever wanted you to know.
In the Catholic Church, if you are part of the prayer team, you might hear, “Pray for Sally Sue.” That’s it. Her right to privacy is respected. As is yours. As is everyone’s.
I find it’s much the same with religious experiences. People are willing to share, to answer any questions, but they aren’t going to volunteer the information out of the blue.
With RCIA, like the one poster said, everyone is on a different page. In my class, things were basic because most were at the “this is a Bible, and this is how you open it” stage. By the time I started RCIA, I had read some of the early Fathers, as well as Dark Night of the Soul, by St. John of the Cross. Interior Castles, by St. Theresa of Avila, a biography on St. Martin de Porres, and The History of the Catholic Church. (I lived across the street from a library.)
We are here for you, and willing to answer any questions. Also, another good forum site is: The Coming Home Network International Forums. They specifically exist to help people from church backgrounds find answers to the questions that Christian converts have.
As always, I am praying for you on your journey.
Kris

Thanks. My difficulty with religious experience is that there’s simply nowhere to go. My own experiences have always been quite strong, to the point of being felt as a physical force or coming through as clear verbal commands. But I don’t really get exactly what to do with them or how to interpret things - I’m used to them being treated with suspicion and skepticism. I’m trying not to ignore them, but it’s somewhat frightening and sometimes I’m almost afraid I’m just imagining things. I’ve never heard of things like that outside of old stories that I was always told didn’t happen anymore!

 

[klm120861]

Thanks. My difficulty with religious experience is that there’s simply nowhere to go. My own experiences have always been quite strong, to the point of being felt as a physical force or coming through as clear verbal commands. But I don’t really get exactly what to do with them or how to interpret things - I’m used to them being treated with suspicion and skepticism. I’m trying not to ignore them, but it’s somewhat frightening and sometimes I’m almost afraid I’m just imagining things. I’ve never heard of things like that outside of old stories that I was always told didn’t happen anymore!

Within the Prot. world that I grew up in, there were certain things that were okay and even encouraged, like speaking in tongues (can’t be a “good” AofG without it). And things that, if they had happened, would have had them rebuking the devil all over the place. Things like St. John of the Cross levitating. Or bilocation (people seeing someone in one place when they had never left where they were - it happened to St. Martin de Porres a lot.)
The Holy Spirit is God. That means he can do whatever he wants, however he wants to accomplish God’s plans. As a former victim myself, I understand how scary that thought can be. Even scarier when He starts working in ways you don’t understand and you feel there’s no one to ask.
Maybe you could make an appointment with your priest. Talk to him about what you experience. The Holy Spirit in the Catholic Church is vastly different than in the Prot. churches. He is much gentler, quieter, and very hard (at least for me) to understand. If you know of some Charismatic Catholics in your area, contact them. But, first, I would make an appointment with your priest. Even if you aren’t Catholic yet, he will be able to help you. (Please don’t ask me how I know he’ll be able to help, I just do. It’s probably one of those “God things”.) By the way, in case it’s not already clear, I totally believe you. And those “old stories that don’t happen any more”…well…I think they still happen. “Take courage; it is I, do not be afraid!” (Mark 6: 50 NABRE) (Easier said by Jesus than done by me!
God bless you my dear, and may you find your answers.
Feel free to contact me any time.
Kris

 

[PJM]

=DarkLight;10263623]I’m in RCIA and set to join the church at easter. The troueble is…I honestly feel like I’m not learning anything or getting questions answered. I’m back at the same spot that I was a year ago before I started any of this.

The classes themselves are very shallow. They’re using the YouCat book that’s designed for children - I read through it in a day, there was nothing new in it. I’m not particularly comfortable raising questions in class, and the times I have asked questions I’ve felt like I got incredibly basic answers.

I have questions - a lot of them. Many that I haven’t been able to find answers to even in actual church documents. But I just don’t know where to go to get them answered. I have a strong interest in church history and the older customs, but don’t feel welcome with the other people that are interested. I have my own experiences that I want to talk about, but I don’t know where to go. The whole thing is just confusing, I feel like I’m being thrown out on my own because the planned program does nothing. Where do I go to learn more?

I and nodoubt others are anxious to assit you.

Let’s take one issue at a time. Ask what it is that concerns you MOST and we’ll work backwards from there.

HOWEVER, understand that this a public forum and not everyone who replies may be fully qualified to do so. IF erors are made; they too will be corrected gently on this Forum

So let’s get started. we don’t have a great deal of time.

We will address any question you pose on Faith matters.

God Bless you,
pat/PJM here on this FORUM

 

[DarkLight]

I and nodoubt others are anxious to assit you.

Let’s take one issue at a time. Ask what it is that concerns you MOST and we’ll work backwards from there.

HOWEVER, understand that this a public forum and not everyone who replies may be fully qualified to do so. IF erors are made; they too will be corrected gently on this Forum

So let’s get started. we don’t have a great deal of time.

We will address any question you pose on Faith matters.

God Bless you,
pat/PJM here on this FORUM

Given the responses I got last time…I think I’d prefer somewhere else, or at least somewhere more private where I don’t get insulted and accused constantly.

 

[Julia_Mae]

Thanks everyone. I…honestly I don’t feel like the problem is really in understanding the theology. I can get lots and lots of facts. But I’m not getting answers with just facts. Like, an example I have: I really want to feel connected to the history of the church. But I’m also deeply disturbed by much of what I read about women in the writings of the saints, and the attitudes I find even now among many of the more conservative elements that seem to be the primary ones surrounding the traditional forms. I don’t know how to reconcile the two, and it leaves me feeling very much that I’m unwelcome wherever I go within the church.

Well, I think we need to accept that people are products of their culture. So, they were trying to fit what they believed was factual with what they believed was Truthful. And I’d be reading Vat2 if I were you and not bothering too much about “traditional forms” but about what this Pope and the one before want all of us to understand.

Same thing with much of the experiental stuff. Simply put, no one ever talks about religious experience.

I do. You’ll find a few threads about these experiences here and a wealth of writings on mysticism. Right now there’s a thread on laying down in prayer and why people do it. It’s a response to a religious experience, not anything taught. But RCIA has to be geared to the basics. It used to take 7 years to enter the Church. I recall the RCIA director getting up at the first meeting and saying, “Okay, we call this the history of the world in 90 minutes!” We had a Buddhist, at least one atheist from an atheist family and a lot of unCatechized people in our RCIA class - they need the basics of belief.

Be a little patient. After you are confirmed, look for Charismatic or healing masses, read some mystics and maybe go on a retreat. Also, people’s religious experiences are fairly personal. But you really can ask this in your classes, or should be able to. Or go talk privately with the RCIA director. I always did.

 

[PJM]

=DarkLight

http://www.cta-usa.org/wicl/14womeninnew.html

And even in the Old Testament, women played highly signifient roles.
Women in the Old Testament and the Church By using sites I save space.

But I’m also deeply disturbed by much of what I read about women in the writings of the saints, and the attitudes I find even now among many of the more conservative elements that seem to be the primary ones surrounding the traditional forms

Women today have more authority; more positions of REAL power within the church than anytime in our 2,000 year history. Both Popes JP II and Pope Benedict have women
in very high Offices within the Church hierarchy. But if your seek “total equality" its just not going to happen. Going back to the Creation of humanity; GOD CHOOSE to make the male gender first. When you get to heaven you can ask Him why?

Clearly God has always held the man to be the head of the house. An total equality of value and self-worth; but someone has to be in charge and God decided it would be and is to me the husband, father.

The reasons given by Pope JP II for a male only priesthood are these. Please take careful note that in this binding declaration; His Holiness said: “ I am not saying that women won’t be priest; I’m saying women can’t be priest. Not even ’the church’ has the Power to change it”

HERE’S WHY: John.15: 16 “You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide”

Sacred Tradition: Our unchanging God Malachi 3:6 “For I am the Lord, and I change not”, from the beginning God choose men for His choice of leadership positions. Adam, Noah, Abram, Moses, David, Jacob, the Prophets, John the Baptist; Jesus Himself and then Peter Mt. 16:15-19

**Holy Orders **is one of the Seven Sacraments; ALL instituted by Jesus Himself. The Pope and the Church do not have the authority to change it.

Physiology: In the dual Miracle of the Most holy Eucharist; Christ uses the words “Do this in memory / commemoration of ME” Lk. 22:19 “And taking bread, he gave thanks, and brake; and gave to them, saying: This is my body, which is given for you. Do this for a commemoration of me” & Paul 1st. Cor. 11: 23-24 “For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus, the same night in which he was betrayed, took bread. And giving thanks, broke, and said: Take ye, and eat: this is my body, which shall be delivered for you: this do for the commemoration of me”

Because Christ Himself is male-gender so to must HIS Priest be. WHY? Because the First of the TWO Eucharistic Miracles is God transforming His Priest into HIMSELF. What the Church terms: “persona Christi” “THE PERSON OF CHRIST’. At the instant of Consecration it is Christ “making Christ” Really; Truly and Substanually Present to us. Therefore it is an impossibility for the base-Nature of the priesthood to change

Same thing with much of the experiental stuff. Simply put, no one ever talks about religious experience.

As one who has taught our Faith for nearly 20 years, including 3 in RCIA; I really do get what your saying. I can explain the “why” but NOT promise you that it will change even though it is a fairly common experience once one begins receiving the sacraments worthily and with faith & Understanding, which we should pray for.

Coming out of the Protestant worship experience where the emphasis is every bit as much of “feeling” as it is on Divine Worship; one comes into the CC expecting a similar experience. It or something far better can happen but it depends largely on you and your relationship with God and Full Understanding of our beliefs and practices. A Full and active Faith is rewarded with a fuller understanding and thus emotions can and do come into play.

It is once again because of the Eucharist; the reality of God actually being REALLY in our midst. Not just spiritually or as a symbol; BUT JESUS HIMSELF! This fact demands our Catholic response be aimed at Divine Worship. Everything else is secondary.

Or at least, the people who do seem to have watered it down to such a silly feel-good attitude. Everything just feels so trite and petty, more caught up in political talking points and being on this side or that side, than in relating to their fellow believers.

I can’t connect to the “political talking point” issue. I’m just not sure if your really mean political or theological? With more than 1 BILLION members there is some of both. BUT our Liturgy; our Worship is and MUST remain focused on God; not each other.

I trust God, but I don’t trust or like religious people, as a general rule, and I haven’t found anyone that’s willing to actually address that and not just brush serious problems aside because they’re not convenient

The more specific and precise you can be; the more I can respond to your concerns.

God Bless you,
Pat/PJM here on this FORUM

 

[DarkLight]

I think…I often feel like most Christians, even Catholics, are more interested in protecting ideological camps than in love for either the Lord or for their neighbor. I get the same set of pat “explanations” reiterated even after saying that those ones don’t work. I feel like most people are more tied to some christianized version of their political affiliation than anything having to do with real Christianity. All conservative christian stuff is good, all liberal stuff is atheistic and evil, type of attitude.

It’s like what I was saying with the historical forms. I think the tridentine mass is very beautiful, and there’s something quite special about having mass celebrated in the same tongue, all over the world. At the same time, I certainly don’t have any problems with the new form - in fact I think it’s for the best for it to be the primary form. But I often feel frustrated the the tridentine mass seems to have been taken over by the ultra-conservative elements. I know when I went I felt incredibly out of place - I was the only woman there by herself, and I was in a modern, somewhat fashionable skirt, top, and hairband rather than the denim/khaki skirt and mantilla of all the other women.

I deal with this all over the place. You either accept the conservative party line fully, or the liberal party line fully. Often times I feel like it has more to do with being a good democrat or republican than anything else. And it just gets in the way of asking honest questions and getting nuanced answers without getting demonized.

 

[Della]

I think…I often feel like most Christians, even Catholics, are more interested in protecting ideological camps than in love for either the Lord or for their neighbor. I get the same set of pat “explanations” reiterated even after saying that those ones don’t work. I feel like most people are more tied to some christianized version of their political affiliation than anything having to do with real Christianity. All conservative christian stuff is good, all liberal stuff is atheistic and evil, type of attitude.

It’s like what I was saying with the historical forms. I think the tridentine mass is very beautiful, and there’s something quite special about having mass celebrated in the same tongue, all over the world. At the same time, I certainly don’t have any problems with the new form - in fact I think it’s for the best for it to be the primary form. But I often feel frustrated the the tridentine mass seems to have been taken over by the ultra-conservative elements. I know when I went I felt incredibly out of place - I was the only woman there by herself, and I was in a modern, somewhat fashionable skirt, top, and hairband rather than the denim/khaki skirt and mantilla of all the other women.

I deal with this all over the place. You either accept the conservative party line fully, or the liberal party line fully. Often times I feel like it has more to do with being a good democrat or republican than anything else. And it just gets in the way of asking honest questions and getting nuanced answers without getting demonized.

Well, considering how powerful secularists are bent on removing all religious influence in the public square, it’s only natural that camps will form on both sides. As Catholics we are obligated to believe certain things and vote according to Church teaching. The nuance comes in the fact that not every candidate is going to line up 100% with our beliefs, so we are encouraged to vote for the one who lines up most closely or the one who would oppose Church teaching the least or who can be persuaded to not enact legislation in opposition to what we believe, etc. so there is wiggle room there. The Church asks us to act according to our consciences formed by the Church’s teachings, and that leaves a lot of room for interpretation.

As a former member of the Assemblies of God I understand some of the baggage you are carrying, although I was never a victim of sex abuse–I was belittled as a woman, but did not experience direct abuse. If you’d like to contact me off the forum please feel free to PM or email me.

 

[DarkLight]

Well, considering how powerful secularists are bent on removing all religious influence in the public square, it’s only natural that camps will form on both sides. As Catholics we are obligated to believe certain things and vote according to Church teaching. The nuance comes in the fact that not every candidate is going to line up 100% with our beliefs, so we are encouraged to vote for the one who lines up most closely or the one who would oppose Church teaching the least or who can be persuaded to not enact legislation in opposition to what we believe, etc. so there is wiggle room there. The Church asks us to act according to our consciences formed by the Church’s teachings, and that leaves a lot of room for interpretation.

As a former member of the Assemblies of God I understand some of the baggage you are carrying, although I was never a victim of sex abuse–I was belittled as a woman, but did not experience direct abuse. If you’d like to contact me off the forum please feel free to PM or email me.

See, even here…when I was an atheist I felt really unwelcome in public places, because everything was so explicitly Christian. I felt like I was constantly being judged as a worse employee and a dangerous person just because I wasn’t Christian. I could be the hardest worker at the job and still be judged as lazy against the Christian that hung around texting on his phone. Or I couldn’t participate in any of the trauma recovery groups, because anything I said about my beliefs or my experiences with church, no matter how neutrally put, was considered an attack.

That’s what I finally learned - both sides always think the other is trying to shove their viewpoints down their throats. The secularists think the religious people are trying to shove religion down their throats, and exclude their views from society. The religious think the secularists are doing the same to them. And of course everyone thinks that the other side is being entirely intentional about it. If you asked the secularists, they’d say they were just trying to defend separation of church and state, which the religious right is trying to tear down. If you asked the religious, they would say the exact same thing.

As far as politics go - it’s the introduction of the irrelevant. For example, I support universal public health care. I don’t support abortion or birth control being covered under it. But you wouldn’t believe how many times I’ve been attacked, because the happenstance of our political system has linked the two. And people assume if you support the first you must support the second.