If you reread this thread you will see that I’m presenting food for deep spiritual thought. I already know that there are many people (most of them atheists) who believe that all thoughts originate from within, but then there are many Christians who truly believe that God does indeed speak to us through our inner voices (our conscience).Robert… What you are talking about is your Subconscious…
Your Subconscious loves to work while your body performs other tasks that are easy…
it’s your inner self… Google it… Google is a modern wonder…
How does one objectively distinguish “hearing auditory voices” (as you put it in your post) from an “inner voice” (as you suggest is reality based)?Schizophrenics are labeled schizophrenic because they hear auditory voices, not because they have inner voices. I fear that people not taking seriously that God speaks to us from afar through our conscience, and that Satan temps us through other inner voices, are greatly missing out on true spirituality.
Clinicians simply ask whether the voices originate from within or are auditory. I happen to be a psychologist, so I know. If you don’t believe me, just ask any clinician.How does one objectively distinguish “hearing auditory voices” (as you put it in your post) from an “inner voice” (as you suggest is reality based)?
Notwithstanding all the charming stories of everyone’s favorite saints, the fact is there is imagination and illness and then there is reality.
How is a clinician to know?
If I came to you and said “Doc, I got this inner voice that keeps telling me that the moon is made of green cheese-----and, it ain’t auditory, it’s coming in loud and clear inside my head. Like really inner”. Please tell me that you wouldn’t reach for your DSM VClinicians simply ask whether the voices originate from within or are auditory. I happen to be a psychologist, so I know. If you don’t believe me, just ask any clinician.
Again, you would not be labeled a schizophrenic unless the voice was auditory. Where are you getting your information from?If I came to you and said “Doc, I got this inner voice that keeps telling me that the moon is made of green cheese-----and, it ain’t auditory, it’s coming in loud and clear inside my head. Like really inner”. Please tell me that you wouldn’t reach for your DSM V
Please, Doc. You wouldn’t throw away the MMSPI score, the DSM diagnostics and all those psychometrics just on the basis of your one question “is it auditory?”Again, you would not be labeled a schizophrenic unless the voice was auditory. Where are you getting your information from?
So back to the original points in this thread, how does God speak to us, and how does Satan tempt us, if not through our inner voices?
I have nothing more to add here. I provided you with my professional assessment. Believe as you may.Please, Doc. You wouldn’t throw away the MMSPI score, the DSM diagnostics and all those psychometrics just on the basis of your one question “is it auditory?”
Any patient who is insisting that the moon is made of green cheese has something going on that needs attention, no matter where that information is coming from, be it auditory, inner, outer or somewhere in the spirit world which begs for a clinician’s TLC. Surely you agree.
So you’re saying that all voices originate from within? That’s fine, and you may be correct, but it’s not what I believe, nor is it what countless other Christian believe.And now back to the original thread. I am not convinced that the Deity speaks to us at all. As for being tempted, temptation arises from pretty much what we want as opposed to what is forbidden. As a practitioner of the behavioral sciences, please consider the following:
My dog Fido, for example, wants a doggie biscuit before he rolls over, but, I’ve trained him not to go lunging into the Alpo box until he first does his tricks. He is tempted, as you might suspect; and, if I turn my back, his training may not be able to withstand the lure of the doggie treat. However, I would hope and you surely agree with me that there is no inner voice cautioning him to “stay, Fido!!” and if he does give into temptation, I suspect you wouldn’t ever believe that the “devil made him do it”. Wouldn’t you simply see it as a breakdown of discipline and think that Fido needed more training?
Regardless of whether you are a disciple of Skinner, Watson, Pavlov or any Gestaltist, do you not agree that is pretty much the way it is with all of us (in a much more sophisticated state, of course) ?
So you’re here to debate behavioral sciences on a Catholic forum? To what end? So you can convince those who believe in the afterlife that in reality they die like the dog in your example? Fido experiences the same inner dialogue that we experience? The human experience is nothing unique? You can’t seriously expect that a believer would ever subscribe to something so dreadful.Please, Doc. You wouldn’t throw away the MMSPI score, the DSM diagnostics and all those psychometrics just on the basis of your one question “is it auditory?”
Any patient who is insisting that the moon is made of green cheese has something going on that needs attention, no matter where that information is coming from, be it auditory, inner, outer or somewhere in the spirit world which begs for a clinician’s TLC. Surely you agree.
And now back to the original thread. I am not convinced that the Deity speaks to us at all. As for being tempted, temptation arises from pretty much what we want as opposed to what is forbidden. As a practitioner of the behavioral sciences, please consider the following:
My dog Fido, for example, wants a doggie biscuit before he rolls over, but, I’ve trained him not to go lunging into the Alpo box until he first does his tricks. He is tempted, as you might suspect; and, if I turn my back, his training may not be able to withstand the lure of the doggie treat. However, I would hope and you surely agree with me that there is no inner voice cautioning him to “stay, Fido!!” and if he does give into temptation, I suspect you wouldn’t ever believe that the “devil made him do it”. Wouldn’t you simply see it as a breakdown of discipline and think that Fido needed more training?
Regardless of whether you are a disciple of Skinner, Watson, Pavlov or any Gestaltist, do you not agree that is pretty much the way it is with all of us (in a much more sophisticated state, of course) ?
No, I was here to respond to the original post: “where do inner voices” come from. I would expect to make my point without deference to specific ideological perspective. If this is a forum of narrow and constricted focus then please excuse me. I was hoping for a broader and more eclectic sharing of opinion.So you’re here to debate behavioral sciences on a Catholic forum? To what end? So you can convince those who believe in the afterlife that in reality they die like the dog in your example? Fido experiences the same inner dialogue that we experience? The human experience is nothing unique? You can’t seriously expect that a believer would ever subscribe to something so dreadful.
Ironically, focusing on the subconscious guarantees that you will not become enlightened. One can only find the subconscious when one allows all existing belief to be explained away, including belief in the subconscious. Belief systems seek truth; before they surrender, there cannot be any loose ends.Inner voices are your Subconscious …end of story.
if it’s actually God talking to you… I think he would make sure you were paying attention,
Ironically, focusing on the subconscious guarantees that you will not become enlightened. One can only find the subconscious when one allows all existing belief to be explained away, including belief in the subconscious. Belief systems seek truth; before they surrender, there cannot be any loose ends.
Those describing their inner voices as products of the subconscious mind are unfortunately getting those voices through invisible counsellors, meditations, seances or a thousand other rituals that contradict the Word of God.
UM......... Run that by me again....God speaks to us all the time through our conscience, but people do not listen. How does Satan tempt us?Inner voices are your Subconscious …end of story.
if it’s actually God talking to you… I think he would make sure you were paying attention,
I Beg to differ with your opinion on this Robert… But that ok…God speaks to us all the time through our conscience, but people do not listen. How does Satan tempt us?
CheersI’m certainly not contending that actual behavior come from God or Satan forcing us. I’m talking about inner voices, either from our conscience which is governed by God, or temptations which are governed by Satan. This in no way negates free will, for we are free to choose to listen, or not listen, to these voices. What causes a person to commit a hideous crime if not a temptation from within; human behavior does not exist in a vacuum.I Beg to differ with your opinion on this Robert… But that ok…
We all have free will…
If I went outside and committed a hideous crime…would that be Satan telling me to do it ?
I dont think so…that would be my choice to do that…not satan…
If I went outside and did a wonderful deed for someone… Did God make me do that ?
I really don’t think so… that would be my Choice, because I have made a conscience decision not to do a bad deed … Who controls our Conscience ? I believe we control our
own Conscience, those that have a weak conscience , have a lazy conscience that likes to take the easy way out… porn for easy lazy entertainment instead of reading something educational. a lazy mind loves nothing more than sexual desire , because it’s a mental stimulation without any effort…
Some people constantly hear voices in there mind, What is the cause of that ?
Could be a mind that seeks a deeper form of stimulation… like physics or astronomy,
or even religious Theology… I doubt it would be Satan or even God himself…
but rather an inquisitive mind … like I mentioned earlier, if God wanted your attention …
you would know about it… and yes sometimes he might just leave bread crumbs of an idea that he knows you will follow, so you can work things out for yourself…
I hope this makes sense, because it does to me…
Code:Cheers