Where do the JWs get their history from?

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Excaliber,

You are off topic. The OP asked where JW got “their history” about the relations between Catholics and Nazi’s, implying that the Watchtower made things up.

The purpose of googling: Catholic Hitler Nazi was to show there is an abundance of non-JW historical discussion about this topic.

The purpose of googling: Jehovah Hitler Nazi was to show the abundance of historical discussion about Jehovah’s Witnesses absolute refusal to even salute Hitler.

I don’t have anything further to add to this discussion. There’s ample reading material in those google searches for those interested in this topic.

Steve

P.S. As a former, Jehovah’s Witness, I don’t intend to hold other discussions with you, so please save yourself the effort of asking me questions.
 
i have to agree with steve to a certain extent. the OP was asking where jw’s get the idea that they were persecuted by hitler (in my understanding that is what was asked). the answer is that they were persecuted, specifically targeted, by hitler and the nazis. now, if jw’s want to blame catholics for their persecution, they might be stretched to do so. of course, much of our modern anti-semitism has grown out of Christianity (catholicism being the largest section of Christianity and with the most history of anti-semitic behavior). i am not condemning catholics or the catholic church. i will condemn the attitude that was allowed to exist within catholicism (and Christianity in general) of the jews as “Christ killers”. it has led to much evil being done in the name of God.
 
bengal_fan said:
i have to agree with steve to a certain extent. the OP was asking where jw’s get the idea that they were persecuted by hitler (in my understanding that is what was asked). …now, if jw’s want to blame catholics for their persecution, they might be stretched to do so. .
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Here is what the op said
At the end she was so upset she was shaking and just started letting me know that the Nazi’s along with the Jews and Catholics persecuted all of the JW’s. I just laughed and said I didn’t know they had the time. She said to go to the library and do research that it was all there. So like I said where do they get their history from?
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My take on it was that they were saying the Nazi’s persecuted them along with the Jews and Catholics. I think she was asking where is the history of Jew and Catholics persecuting them. That is the history she is wondering about.
 
BibleSteve said:
Excaliber,

You are off topic. The OP asked where JW got “their history” about the relations between Catholics and Nazi’s, implying that the Watchtower made things up.

The purpose of googling: Catholic Hitler Nazi was to show there is an abundance of non-JW historical discussion about this topic.

The purpose of googling: Jehovah Hitler Nazi was to show the abundance of historical discussion about Jehovah’s Witnesses absolute refusal to even salute Hitler.

I don’t have anything further to add to this discussion. There’s ample reading material in those google searches for those interested in this topic.

Steve

P.S. As a former, Jehovah’s Witness, I don’t intend to hold other discussions with you, so please save yourself the effort of asking me questions.
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LOL…you are not even supposed to be here…lol. So you pick and chose what jw rules you want to follow…interesting.

And if you won’t kindly answer my question I will answer for you.
Catholics don’t mind discussing there faith online because they have nothing to hide…Jw’s won’t talk about there faith on a watchtower ran open forum because watchtower would be publicly exposed on the internet.
 
BibleSteve said:
Like I said, if you google:

Catholic Hitler Nazi

and actually review the first 2 pages of links, you will see plenty of pictures for yourself.
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But Hitler was a Lutheran.

Matter of fact, The Nazi’s were Protestants.
 
BibleSteve said:
P.S. As a former, Jehovah’s Witness, I don’t intend to hold other discussions with you, so please save yourself the effort of asking me questions.
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Steve:

You might want to remember that you are interacting on a Catholic Forum. There are a number of people here who are former Jehovah’s Witnesses, and not all of them have chosen to identify themselves as such.

Excaliber can ask you any question he wishes on this forum so long as he abides by the forum rules. You can choose to respond or not. But you can’t control who talks to you here.

Catholics don’t have to live by JW rules.

And when a former Catholic comes on here, people don’t refuse to talk to him/her. They make a point to talk to their “separated Brethren” (that’s why there is a Forum for non-Catholic religions).

Ask yourself why the Watchtower doesn’t want you to talk to those who have left – those who have left without committing any kind of “wrongdoing” – but because they have found a real and living faith outside of the Watchtower box.

I have never been disfellowshipped or da’ed. Neither has Excaliber. So technically, you are free to talk to either of us.

Or not.

Your choice.

At least we are polite enough to give you one.

Pax,

Ruth
 
2ndGen said:
But Hitler was a Lutheran.

Matter of fact, The Nazi’s were Protestants.
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actually, hitler was born, baptized, and raised catholic. he rejected the catholic church as an adult and actually described himself as a pagan (i believe he was speaking in hyperbole, but he might have participated in pagan ceremonies… who knows, i wouldn’t put anything past him). hitler, for all intents and purposes (and to the public appeared) was catholic.

many of the other leaders were catholics, many others were protestants (lutheran mostly). most of the higher ups had rejected their faith.

the face they rejected their faith doesn’t really matter as they learned most of their anti-semitism from their faiths… including catholic.
 
This does not answer the question of where JWs get their history, but is in reference to the allegations about the Catholic Church and the Nazi party.

The Rutgers Journal of Law and Religion is sponsoring the “Nuremburg Project”. This project is making available online scanned copies of the actual documents prepared for the Nuremburg War Crimes trials.

The first document published as part of the Nuremburg Project is entitled “The Nazi Master Plan – the Persecution of the Christian Churches”. Links to the actual documents are found here:

lawandreligion.com/installments.shtml

The documents lay out a plan of deception by the Nazis to first gain the trust of the Catholic Church and other Christian Churches in order to speed their rise to power, and then to systematically terrorize Christians and destroy the power of the Church to maximize the power of the party.

Hitler persecuted anyone who did not serve his purpose.

This is another link to a newspaper article regarding the same subject:

papillonsartpalace.com/endC.htm

Hitler was a cradle Catholic, but he did not practice Christianity. The Catholic Church does not bear responsibility for his actions.

Pax,

Ruth
 
bengal_fan said:
actually, hitler was born, baptized, and raised catholic. he rejected the catholic church as an adult and actually described himself as a pagan (i believe he was speaking in hyperbole, but he might have participated in pagan ceremonies… who knows, i wouldn’t put anything past him). hitler, for all intents and purposes (and to the public appeared) was catholic.

many of the other leaders were catholics, many others were protestants (lutheran mostly). most of the higher ups had rejected their faith.

the face they rejected their faith doesn’t really matter as they learned most of their anti-semitism from their faiths… including catholic.
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Doesn’t change what he “was” when he did his dirt.

Hitler was once a child, but didn’t do his evil until he was a man.

Same goes for his faith.

While he was a Catholic, he didn’t do his evil, but it was “after” he rejected his Catholic faith and embraced Protestantism that he did his evil.

I’m not saying that he’s evil because he was a Protestant, but I am definately saying that while he was a Catholic, he didn’t have any power to do this evil.

Hitler was a Protestant and did his evil as a Protestant…“not” as a Catholic. Any Catholic that rejects their faith are no longer Catholics…but "protest"ants.

The Nazi’s were protestants…“not” Catholics.

Nothing they did was under the orders or approval of The Catholic Church, but WAS under the approval of The Lutheran Church.

claremontmckenna.edu/hist/jpetropoulos/church/keithpage/protesta.htm

*The Lutheran establishment as a whole supported Hitler for his promise to eliminate bolshevism and stabilize Germany. Hitler’s support of “positive Christianity” was not alarming to a church that was highly anti-Semitic. The Nazis saw the German Christian movement as a way to gain control of the German Evangelical Church, and gave them heavy support for as long as they felt the movement had a chance to succeed. When German Christianity was no longer politically viable, the Nazis ceased to support it. *
*The first conflict between the German Evangelical Church occurred in 1933, at a meeting of the regional churches, over who the first Reich Bishop would be. The German Christians nominated Muller as their candidate. His opponent was Friedrich von Bodelschwingh, a popular and respected pastor from Westphalia. Protestant leaders were outraged that the unknown Muller was placed on the ballot, and, after several votes, elected Bodelschwingh Reich Bishop by a vote of 91 to 8. *

http://www.claremontmckenna.edu/hist/jpetropoulos/church/keithpage/reich_bishop_muller.jpg

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_Christianity

Doesn’t matter how one attempts to slice it…the fact is, whatever happened in Germany was under the authority of Hitler The Lutheran and His Church there.

(I bet you if there is one Catholic on a Protestant team that loses a game, it’s the Catholics fault. Amazing.)
 
Wow, 2ndGen…have you ever thought about joining the Catholic League to defend the faith?, Because you are good…:yup:
 
For the sake of clarifying a bit more this woman that came to my door was upset because I did not let her finish her speech and so as the conversation progressed she was clearly upset with me and right as I was saying farewell she just suckerpunched me with “the catholics and nazi” were cohorting together to get rid of them .
I was not implying anything I just wanted to know what resource this came from?
From all that I have read here the watchtower embellished and did make things up for their own purpose and to try to strengthen their propaganda.

Mousey you are right when you said :
What wasn’t shown was that it was truthful. Just because others spread the same lie doesn’t make it any less a lie

And this:
My take on it was that they were saying the Nazi’s persecuted them along with the Jews and Catholics. I think she was asking where is the history of Jew and Catholics persecuting them. That is the history she is wondering about

This is exactly what I was asked.

Steve I am very glad to hear you are a former JW.

OT this is the second time this happens to me they get really upset with me and spurt out some ill misconception and hurry and leave my front door. sigh…
 
Righteousone said:
Wow, 2ndGen…have you ever thought about joining the Catholic League to defend the faith?, Because you are good…:yup:
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I love William A. Donohue!

And thank you for what I take as the sincerest form of flattery.

You humble me.

:bowdown2:

And yes, I have thought about joining The Catholic League,
but I imagine them always trying to reign me in! 😃
 
Oh thats too bad 😊 you were telling excalibur I skimmed over the ps part and thought and got excited. Oh well :o
 
To start with let go back over History for just a brief second. Hitler rose to power in Germany during a time when the country was in a worse depression that what we in America were facing. He made promises to rebuild Germany and he did it. If you look at the dates the pictures of Hitler with Bishops and Church leaders you will notice that the all take place prior to 1938. The war did not start till 1939 and I have found nothing that the Holocaust started prior to that. I’m am not saying that Jews and other were not mistreated prior just that I can not find an out right onslaught till after.

Hitler was Raised as a Catholic no question about it. He also used the Church to his own means as being able to play to its desire to help a country and people deep in economic collapse. He had left the teaching of the faith and was very involved in the occult with a major fascination with German paganism.

Did members of the clergy in German cooperate with the Nazis? I would have to say some did. Why? for those that did you could find as many different answers as there are people to ask the question of. the one thing is Clear the Church never supported nor cooperated with the Nazis in their campaign of destruction and extermination.

To answer the OP question they do with History as they do with the Bible. The Watch Tower edits and translated it the way they see fit. Pray for the members. I know some very dear people that are under the spell of this Organization It is hard to leave as if you do you and you are one who JW from birth you lose your whole family and all the friends that you have as they are no longer to have contact with you.
 
oneGODoneCHURCH said:
Hitler was Raised as a Catholic no question about it. He also used the Church to his own means as being able to play to its desire to help a country and people deep in economic collapse. He had left the teaching of the faith and was very involved in the occult with a major fascination with German paganism.

.
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He was a Protestant.

No need to leave that out and there is every need in the interest of a balanced representation of who he was…Most of his life…He was a Protestant. The evil he did, he did in the name of Christianity as an Apostate Catholic that embraced Protestantism and that was embraced “by” Protestantism.

It wasn’t the first 20 years of his life that made him who he was, but what happened “after”.

When discussing Hitler’s Christian backround, Catholicism is just a footnote. Protestantism is the church he chose voluntarily and it chose him right back.
 
yea steve is still Jw…don’t know why…watchtower is NO comparison to the Catholic Church.

Some of the stuff witnesses come up with is in “the reasoning book”.
Next time jw’s come by ask to look at there reasoning book, it will make you laugh.
 
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