Where do the JWs get their history from?

  • Thread starter Thread starter QuietTimes
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I don’t think that what Hitler did was in the name of Christianity, either Catholic or Protestant.

If the Christian Church in the past have had unfavourable opinions on Jews which led to their bad treatment then that is one thing.

From my perspective i also think Darwinism had a role to play in Hitlers actions. Darwin is a man i admire but he got it wrong in his Descent of Man book where he said that the black races were inferior, would soon dissappear and the human race would be better off and stronger because of it.

Now of course i don’t agree with what he said, but from his perspective it would be understandable if we were talking about sheep or roses. Today, his extending those thoughts to man is (almost) totally rejected, as it should be. Unfortunately in the intelligentsia of Hitlers time, Darwin was uncritically acclaimed, not just in Germany, but Europe and America.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics

And unfortunately Hitler was part of that intelligentsia and extended the latest scientific views to the peoples of Germany -
Jews, blacks, disabled Germans with birth defects.

As such, a backward Jewish religion, preaching the equality of both Jew and Gentile under a Jewish God was never going to be the basis for his frame of reference and that Church also needed to be removed - for the good of man of course.

I think you can make the case that the Church may in the past have laid the groundwork for the bad feelings towards the Jews but it was another philosophy which caused the holoucast and it was the Church which in the end was the philosophy that stood opposed to such action.

homepages.paradise.net.nz/mischedj/ca_hitler.html
icr.org/article/378/
 
BibleSteve said:
The thing that makes productive discussions futile here, is that although Catholic posters can put up links to blatantly anti-JW sites which mock and attack JW’s, if I put up a similar link about Catholism, I would be banned for breaking forum rules.
Click to expand...
The fact is, this Forum exists and it is Catholic. Discussion here is very free as far as I can tell.

Excaliber asked you a question which you refused to answer for personal reasons. But perhaps you would like to explain to these good folks just why it is that watchtower.org has NO forum, no venue for submitting questions at all.

Let’s see, Catholic Church allows and indeed supports the apostolates of those who run sites like this for bringing the Christian faith to those with questions and for bringing back to Catholicism those who have left.

The Watchtower group supports no such sites. Their site is not interactive in any way. And any inquiry will bring a Witness to one’s door. And questioning said Witness frequently results in experiences like the one that started this thread.

Moderation on a forum verses no forum at all.

Hmmmm, wonder who is exerting mind control here?

Pax,

Ruth
 
I don’t know why we still have this discussion. There were almost as many Catholic Priests killed in Dachau alone as there were Jehovah’s Witnesses in prison camps period. Hitler was a practicioner of the occult. He was nominally raised Catholic, but was not a “Catholic” during his adult life.

The JW’s in Germany had an early “love affair” with Hitler.
bible.ca/jw-hitler.htm#hitlerletter
Click to expand...
 
abucs said:
I don’t think that what Hitler did was in the name of Christianity, either Catholic or Protestant.

If the Christian Church in the past have had unfavourable opinions on Jews which led to their bad treatment then that is one thing.

From my perspective i also think Darwinism had a role to play in Hitlers actions. Darwin is a man i admire but he got it wrong in his Descent of Man book where he said that the black races were inferior, would soon dissappear and the human race would be better off and stronger because of it.

Now of course i don’t agree with what he said, but from his perspective it would be understandable if we were talking about sheep or roses. Today, his extending those thoughts to man is (almost) totally rejected, as it should be. Unfortunately in the intelligentsia of Hitlers time, Darwin was uncritically acclaimed, not just in Germany, but Europe and America.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics

And unfortunately Hitler was part of that intelligentsia and extended the latest scientific views to the peoples of Germany -
Jews, blacks, disabled Germans with birth defects.

As such, a backward Jewish religion, preaching the equality of both Jew and Gentile under a Jewish God was never going to be the basis for his frame of reference and that Church also needed to be removed - for the good of man of course.

I think you can make the case that the Church may in the past have laid the groundwork for the bad feelings towards the Jews but it was another philosophy which caused the holoucast and it was the Church which in the end was the philosophy that stood opposed to such action.

homepages.paradise.net.nz/mischedj/ca_hitler.html
icr.org/article/378/
Click to expand...
Everybody’s persecuted the Jews…and why not? They persecued Jesus and His followers unto His death. Why wouldn’t there be hard feelings for people who were chosen by God and who’ve consistantly disobeyed him?

And this isn’t ancient history either…look at what they do to The Palestinians (both Muslim and Christian Palestinians).

They do it to themselves with their own actions the way we as a country have the world hating us now for what we did in Iraq, the way the USSR had the world hating it…everybody’s hands are dirty.

Hatred for any religious or ethnic group that acted as a group to hurt another people or various peoples have reason to be hated by the people that they’ve hurt and by the people that see them in their wrong.

Until Israel lives rightly and sets the example that God intended them to when He blessed them (and I’m not speaking for God, but am just offering my own opinion), she will be hated. Not because she’s “chosen”, but because she is out of hand (look at what’s going on over there politically, with the abuse and genocide of the Palestinians, with the perverse sexual deviancy, etc…).

Just like “us”! Look at TV, at the billboards, at the glorification and idolatorizing of sex and of materialism?

Pardon my Sunday morning rant, but I just get lit up when The Jews are used as a measuring stick for a country’s worth. Everybody loses.

They are God’s chosen, but I will not celebrate them when they live the life they do collectively as a country.

I won’t however curse them either.
 
BibleSteve said:
The thing that makes productive discussions futile here, is that although Catholic posters can put up links to blatantly anti-JW sites which mock and attack JW’s, if I put up a similar link about Catholism, I would be banned for breaking forum rules.
Click to expand...
You know something BibleSteve?

I agree with you.

Anti-Catholic sites “should” be allowed to be posted here. I think it would serve the community to see what we have to deal with and what we have to answer to.

I put up that WatchTheTower site that is run by former JW’s. I’m sure there are sites run by former Catholics too.

I for one have no problems with JW’s and love their evagelization work. Their just hypocritical when they criticize other Christians. That simply isn’t a biblical approace to evangelization and is completely counter to what Jesus Christ taught.

Any religion that rants against another as a methods or evangelization is simply not representative of Christ.

But I do strongly believe that anti-Catholic sites should be allowed to be put up here. If they were, we Catholics could see “why” we are blessed to be Catholics.

If one’s religion is true, then there’s no need to knock down another religion in order to build up yours.

Show a non-Christian why they should be a Christian by imitating Christ…with kindness, with charity, with mercy, with love.

Did Christ ever criticize any other religions besides His own?

Never.

In fact, Jesus used other religions to show how those of His own religion should act. Think of The Good Samaritan example and that of the Pagan Roman that showed great faith.

🙂
 
BibleSteve said:
The thing that makes productive discussions futile here, is that although Catholic posters can put up links to blatantly anti-JW sites which mock and attack JW’s, if I put up a similar link about Catholism, I would be banned for breaking forum rules.
Click to expand...
Moderators, if this is wrong, feel free to remove the post, but I feel that these site serve to educate us as to how outrageous anti–Catholicsism is.

www.Chick.com

www.Bible.ca

Anti-Catholic websites.
 
2ndGen said:
I won’t however curse them (the Jews) either.
Click to expand...
Hi

This might be off the thread, I would say that the Jews earned the curse as mentioned by Jesus, Matthew 23:35

35 That upon you may come all the just blood that hath been shed upon the earth, from the blood of Abel the just, even unto the blood of Zacharias the son of Barachias, whom you killed between the temple and the altar.

Quran mentions:

[1:7] …those who have not incurred Thy displeasure…
www3.alislam.org/showChapter.jsp?ch=1

I pray that the Jewish friends may come out of their mistakes.

Thanks
 
Yerusalyim said:
I don’t know why we still have this discussion. There were almost as many Catholic Priests killed in Dachau alone as there were Jehovah’s Witnesses in prison camps period. Hitler was a practicioner of the occult. He was nominally raised Catholic, but was not a “Catholic” during his adult life.

The JW’s in Germany had an early “love affair” with Hitler.
Click to expand...
Like I said before, it’s amazing how one Catholic on a sports team of Protestants could be blamed for the entire teams loss every time.

:confused:
 
2ndGen,

the whole early church was Jewish and much of our liturgy, history and traditions are Jewish. In fact a large part of our whole credibility is the fact that we come out of that Jewish culture.

quote :
Everybody’s persecuted the Jews…and why not? They persecued Jesus and His followers unto His death. Why wouldn’t there be hard feelings for people who were chosen by God and who’ve consistantly disobeyed him?
endquote :

I remind you of a Jew who on the cross prayed for his own Jewish and also Roman executioners and taught his followers to pray for their enemies. And i remind you that that Jew died for all our sins and thus was persecuted by us all.

If some Jews do bad things then as i see it, that is no difference to some Catholics doing bad things. If we agree to villafying a group because of the sins we believe some are doing, then we are inviting a similar reaction to ourselves.

If we believe a group are promoting sins through the media then we should boycott that media and encourage our friends to do the same.

Regarding the Israeli / Palistinian question - that is quite complicated and i can’t comment without completely hijacking the thread.

Respect.
 
abucs said:
the whole early church was Jewish and much of our liturgy, history and traditions are Jewish.QUOTE]
Click to expand...
And I remind you of the “Jews” that put Him on that cross.

There are reasons that they are hated…valid reasons, if not then, then at least today:

All the CHILDREN murdered by Jews in our current time:

Seconds before they were shot to death by Jewish soldiers despite begging for their lives…

http://www.ety.com/HRP/immages/jewsmurderchild.jpg

images.google.com/images?q=+palestinians+shot+by+jews+12+year+old+boy&svnum=10&um=1&hl=en&rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-us%3AIE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7TSHA

Just like they kill Palestinians today, they killed a Palestinian 2,000 years ago who came FOR THEM!

I don’t hate them, but nobody in my book gets a “persecute and kill and murder all you want and don’t be judged” card.
If some Jews do bad things then as i see it, that is no difference to some Catholics doing bad things. If we agree to villafying a group because of the sins we believe some are doing, then we are inviting a similar reaction to ourselves
Click to expand...
.

That would be a case only if “some” Jews did bad things, but the Jewish nation today murders children as a country, as their law, as a religious collective group. Their works cannot be attributed to the soldiers who kill in “their” name.

Villifying a group that kills is completely legitimate if they do it continually and without ceasing.
Regarding the Israeli / Palistinian question - that is quite complicated and i can’t comment without completely hijacking the thread.
Click to expand...
Not complicated at all. They are guilty of the same genocide in priciple that they cry about Hitler doing to them. What they went through with Hitler, they are doing today to Palestinians.
Respect.
Click to expand...
Peace.
Click to expand...
[/QUOTE]
 
Well i disagree, but i see i’m not going to get anywhere today so good day to you.
 
2ndGEN,

Been an antisemite for very long? The Jews are defending their homeland. Where is your comdemnation of the so called Palestinians for their unprovoked attacks the purposefully have targeted innocent civilians?
 
Well i hope we can both agree it is certainly NOT ok to murder innocent unarmed children, no matter which homeland you are claiming to fight for.
 
Now, show me where I’ve discriminated agains Jews or have shown any hostitility towards them?
Click to expand...
You’re hostile toward Israel defending their homeland.
But aren’t they “in” Palestine?
Click to expand...
How is Palestine “their” homeland when the overwhelming majority of the people settling there are from other countries?
Click to expand...
NOPE, they are in ISRAEL, there’s NEVER EVER been a country called Palestine, nor a people called Palestinian. The folks you refer to are ARABS.
It is The Palestinians who are protecting their homeland…they were there first. It is the settlers (Jews by religion, not by race) that are coming into Palestine.
Click to expand...
Ya need to study the history a bit more, there has ALWAYS been Jews in the Holy Land, and most of the so-called Palestinians immigrated to the Holy Land as recently as the Jewish settlers, they started coming in about the year 1900. Yassir Arafat, for example, was born in Egypt.
Well, there’s no such thing as a “so-called” Palestinian. One either “is” or “isn’t” a Palestinian.
Click to expand...
You have it half right, there’s no such thing as a PALESTINIAN, they are Arabs.
But if you kill my children, will I “not” hate you?
Click to expand...
Then perhaps you understand the Israeli position, unprovoked attacks against Civilian targets since its very inception.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but Israel “is” occupying Palestinian lands, right?
Click to expand...
You are wrong. Israel is on its own land, and land that it captured from Jordan, Syria and Egypt after these nations attacked it.
And aren’t we talking here about the political (not ideological) situation when Palestinians defend their occupied homeland against Israeli incursions?
Click to expand...
When were these “incursions” made? Jordan, Syria and Egypt attacked Israel, in defense, Israel captured land that belonged to these nations…all that is quite legal under international law.
I’m talking about how Jewish genocide of Palestinians and of how Jewish incursions of Palestinian lands is a major reason that Jews are hated today not only by Muslims, but by the world. They do evil, they are hated. It’s just that simple.
Click to expand...
There is no “genocide”. If “Palestinains” weren’t attacking Israel, Israel wouldn’t be using harsh methods against them. The fact is that the Palestinians live better in the “refuge camps” in the West Bank than they do in the refugee camps in Arab countries.
Here is a list of all the groups united “against” the Jewish occupation in Palestine:
Click to expand...
Jews!
Catholics
Palestinians
Protestants
Atheists
The Civilized World!
Click to expand...
All against the illegal occupation of Palestine by Israel.
Click to expand...
Because some VERY FEW JEWS CATHOLICS PROTESTANTS AND ATHEISTS are against Israel doesn’t make them right. I give you a plug nickle for what the “civilized world” thinks. These are the same “civilized people” that appeassed Hitler.
Now, unless you can tell me right now that God has revealed to you that Jews murdering innocent Palestinian women and children while illegally occupying non-Jewish lands is ok, spare me the judgement and name calling.
Click to expand...
Show me where Israel has TARGETED innocent Arabs and we can talk. Then show me your condemnation of Palestinains who TARGET innocent Israelis. Also, show me the occupation by Israel is illegal…the law of land warfare allows it.
 
abucs said:
Well i hope we can both agree it is certainly NOT ok to murder innocent unarmed children, no matter which homeland you are claiming to fight for.
Click to expand...
And that is my only gripe with Israel.

I don’t care what country does this…it’s always wrong.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top