Where do you go after confession?

[Sir_Knight]

Assuming you just confessed all of your sins (or at least all of the mortal ones that you are conscious of), receive absolution along with a penance to perform. Let’s further assume that the penance consists of a few common prayers which you say in the pew immediately after leaving the confessional. Upon completing your prayers, you go to stand up, suffer a major heart attack and stroke and die almost instantly right there on the spot.

Where does your soul go? Would you go straight to heaven or would you still be required to spend some time in purgatory? Does performing the penance given during confession removal all off the temporary punishment associated with those sins?

 

[Pug]

Only baptism is a free ticket. After a good confession and saying the penance, you can still end up in purgatory. The penance assigned does apply toward the temporal punishments; however, it does not appear to be enough to kill off the whole thing on most occasions.

Consider a plenary indulgence for a slightly better chance to avoid purgatory. (I say slightly because they are hard to get).

 

[Dr.Colossus]

Pug:

Consider a plenary indulgence for a slightly better chance to avoid purgatory. (I say slightly because they are hard to get).

Not all of them are that hard to get. There is now a plenary indulgence attached to saying a Rosary (5 decades) in a church or other holy place.

 

[Pug]

Dr. Colossus:

Not all of them are that hard to get. There is now a plenary indulgence attached to saying a Rosary (5 decades) in a church or other holy place.

Yep. I almost suggested that one, but instead went with the warning that they are hard to get. I meant that not because the work itself it hard (for example, you can also spend 30 or more minutes reading scripture reverently, and if you can read, that isn’t hard at all), rather, I meant the one particularly hard condition to satisfy…that you must be free from attachment to even venial sin. :bigyikes: Sounds hard to me.

 

[Dr.Colossus]

I hadn’t ever heard that you must be free from attachment to venial sin. The Catholic Encyclopedia says the following:

DISPOSITIONS NECESSARY TO GAIN AN INDULGENCE

The mere fact that the Church proclaims an indulgence does not imply that it can be gained without effort on the part of the faithful. From what has been said above, it is clear that the recipient must be free from the guilt of mortal sin. Furthermore, for plenary indulgences, confession and Communion are usually required, while for partial indulgences, though confession is not obligatory, the formula corde saltem contrito, i.e. "at least with a contrite heart ", is the customary prescription. Regarding the question discussed by theologians whether a person in mortal sin can gain an indulgence for the dead, see PURGATORY. It is also necessary to have the intention, at least habitual, of gaining the indulgence. Finally, from the nature of the case, it is obvious that one must perform the good works – prayers, alms deeds, visits to a church, etc. – which are prescribed in the granting of an indulgence.

 

[Pug]

There is a document on indulgences that came out (the enchiridion), oh, I think in the 1960’s (after the stuff in the online Catholic Encylopaedia). It is sort of an updating, so to speak. I don’t easily know where to find it online, though I have seen it somewhere. I only have excerpts of the enchiridion in my prayer book at home (New Saint Joseph People’s Prayer Book). I could find this spot online.

Also, I found it sort of talked about on the vatican site under divine mercy sunday here. Here is a clip, but it is only for divine mercy sunday, but my prayer book and the enchiridion make it clear that this is standard. I think if you look around, you could find that enchiridion.

a *plenary indulgence, *granted under the usual conditions (sacramental confession, Eucharistic communion and prayer for the intentions of Supreme Pontiff) to the faithful who, on the Second Sunday of Easter or Divine Mercy Sunday, in any church or chapel, in a spirit that is completely detached from the affection for a sin, even a venial sin, take part in the prayers and devotions held in honour of Divine Mercy, or who, in the presence of the Blessed Sacrament exposed or reserved in the tabernacle, recite the *Our Father *and the *Creed, *adding a devout prayer to the merciful Lord Jesus (e.g. Merciful Jesus, I trust in you!");

I am as positive as I can be about this, having seen the enchiridion myself in a bookstore (didn’t buy it, though), and my prayer book having extensive quotes (including the one covering this issue).

 

[Dr.Colossus]

I would argue that detachment from the *affection *for a sin, is different from complete detachment from all sin. One can still be attached to sin via habit or ignorance, yet have no affection (i.e. by detesting all sin). In addition, the 1983 Code of Canon Law, more updated even than the Enchiridion, states the following:

Can. 996 §1. To be capable of gaining indulgences, a person must be baptized, not excommunicated, and in the state of grace at least at the end of the prescribed works.
§2. To gain indulgences, however, a capable subject must have at least the general intention of acquiring them and must fulfill the enjoined works in the established time and the proper method, according to the tenor of the grant.

It mentions nothing requiring superhuman detachment from sin.

 

[Pug]

Dr. Colossus:

I would argue that detachment from the *affection *for a sin, is different from complete detachment from all sin. One can still be attached to sin via habit or ignorance, yet have no affection (i.e. by detesting all sin). In addition, the 1983 Code of Canon Law, more updated even than the Enchiridion, states the following:

It mentions nothing requiring superhuman detachment from sin.

I do see the point that affection is a difference, but most teachings I see involve the word attachment, not affection (see Catholic answers tract on this site here). I do not know if they really mean detachment from all sin as in all possible tendencies and such, I might guess not. I have never really worried about the exact meaning of the phrase. I just fulfill the conditions as best I can and figure a partial indulgence is just dandy anyway. I am too secular and silly of a person for me to figure that in general I can meet such a condition, whatever its precise specification.

Re the CIC, this canon is also relevant:

Can. 997 As regards the granting and use of indulgences, the other prescripts contained in the special laws of the Church must also be observed.

I doubt something superhuman (impossible?) is required, else there would be no plenary indulgences.

 

[Sir_Knight]

Pug, I agree with you. I have heard it said that almost everybody falls short of obtaining a plenary indulgence because of their attachment to even ONE venial sin.

Now, getting back to my original question so performing the penance given during confession is like obtaining a partial indulgence?

Could one then not perform the penance given during confession and just seek partial indulgences on their own?

 

[Pug]

Hangdog Pug repents of thread thievery.

Yes they are similar in their effects upon temporal punishments. Sure, go right ahead and work on partial indulgences upon stepping down from the confessional box and saying your penance. Some really easy options:

Pray the Remember O Most Gracious Virgin…
Make an act of faith (do the Creed).
Read scripture reverently.
Go to Adoration.
Make the sign of the cross with the right words.
Fast from chocolate. (Oops, I said easy)

A partial indulgence is your basic retirement matching plan. Whatever you put in is matched from the Treasury. Just be sure to plan on getting them. It is required that you have the general intention of gaining them to get them.

 

[Sir_Knight]

Pug:

Make the sign of the cross with the right words.

Besides … " In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit " … how else is it said?

Just watch, I’ve been a Catholic for over four decades and watch me have been saying it wrong all of this time

 

[porthos11]

Sir Knight:

Besides … " In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit " … how else is it said?

Well, it’s also said with “God come to my assistance” and “May the Lord bless us, protect us from all evil, and bring us to everlasting life” and “My the all-powerful Lord grant us a restful night and a peaceful death” all of them from the Divine Office.

 

[jeffreedy789]

ya, the idea is to be free from the consequences of sin - in our minds, in our bodies, etc. when we enter heaven (God willing), we will be perfect, sinless. we have to enter that state somehow. purgatory is that ‘how’.

i realize you know all of this. but applying it to your question sort of answers it, doesn’t it? when you come out of a good confession, or receive a plenary indulgence (which, by the way, is good for one sin or ‘group’ of sins, not for ALL of your sins, i found out to my chagrin), you are still not in a perfect state of sinless, beatific grace.

i’ve heard it said (someone correct me if i’m wrong) that everyone goes to purgatory, at leat for a bit. the pope, mother teresa, everyone. no one dies in a state of perfect sinlessness, except mary and Jesus and john the baptist. am i wrong on that?

in any case, i’d say that, after a good confession, when you have your ‘heart attack’ and drop dead, you would go to purgatory for a bit, and then on to heaven. God willing.

 

[porthos11]

jeffreedy789:

i’ve heard it said (someone correct me if i’m wrong) that everyone goes to purgatory, at leat for a bit. the pope, mother teresa, everyone. no one dies in a state of perfect sinlessness, except mary and Jesus and john the baptist. am i wrong on that?

in any case, i’d say that, after a good confession, when you have your ‘heart attack’ and drop dead, you would go to purgatory for a bit, and then on to heaven. God willing.

Well, martyrs get to heaven directly, hence the dispensation of the miracle requirement for beatification.

Just to clarify a bit. Indulgences are not for sins, they are for temporal punishment due to sins but already forgiven. And a plenary indulgence wipes out ALL temporal punishment. So if you obtained a plenary indulgence for yourself, then drop dead, you bypass purgetory altogether, because your temporal punishment has been totally remitted.

I would think the best place and time to receive a plenary indulgence for youself would be at your deathbed, having received your last Confession, Communion, Anointing, and the Apostolic Blessing (which carries with it the plenary indulgence). I, for one, pray that is the way I die when my time comes. Thanks to Christ working in his Church it is indeed possible to die in a state of perfect sinlessness.