Where do you turn when prayer fails you?

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The people here have posted truly excellent posts, IMO. There’s so much that’s important and true and has been said. I just have a very little addition.

Mijoy, have you ever heard (or felt you heard) God speaking to you before? I just wanted to suggest, before you pray again and feel like only air molecules moved, that it might help to take some time each day to listen, quietly.

I try to cut off extraneous thoughts during such times, so that they don’t bombard me and lead me down random thought patterns, and I just listen, quiet and doing nothing (except pacing- I can’t help but pace all the time). I set aside some time every week (I know it should be every day, but at the moment my discipline is not at its peak) to just listen, and sometimes I feel that I hear God telling me things during that time. It can become incredibly beautiful and precious. A lot of times, there is nothing, but other times are distinctly different.

It might help if, instead of praying to God for something, you just take time out to listen for him. It doesn’t have to be a long time. Just a few minutes of silence, not praying or thinking but just being quiet, may help. As you begin to hear him (more often?), I think that your experience will begin to change for the better. It would at least give God a chance to explain himself, if he wants to.

My experience is that trust, and everything else in relationship with God, tend to blossom out of interaction. That’s the way it works for me, anyway. When I take time out to listen to God, I come to hear him more and more over time (with dry periods, for sure). As I hear from him, I’ve come to love him more and trust him more, and my knowledge of his reality is confirmed.
 
I apologize for not responding to the thoughtful replies over the last few days. I thought the thread came to an end, I didn’t realize there were more replies.

My reaction when the event occured, was emotional. I’m still bewildered by the “no”, but I think I have it in better perspective. I will take the advice and reread the replies. I want to thank all who replied.

JoySong, the year 2000 was a time when I didn’t pray at all. I was victiim of the bubble burst loosing an awful lot of money (virtually all of it greater then 90%). If I had sold at that time I’d likely have enough to be able to retire today. But, I didn’t and I don’t. I figure I have cried enough tears over that spilled milk. I’m happy for you that things worked out the way they did for you! And thank you for your reply regarding my issue.
 
Mijoy,

I’m so sorry you lost that much money. You do have my empathy.

Not too many people were spared in those days, I’m afraid, except maybe the professionals. I lost money, too, for I had previously invested in some securities. Since the market was doing so well before the crash, I planned to invest even more capital using the proceeds from selling my real estate which I figured would have a higher return than my annual 20%. How foolish! This would have would caused a much greater disaster than the loss I endured owning those securities. God spared me from myself, and I can only praise Him in hindsight. I learned to trust Him a lot more when my prayers are not answered.

Wish I could make it all better for you! :console:
 
Mijoy2 said:
I don’t want to get into the details but there is something I prayed for, my entire family prayed for and the outcome was a failure.

The ramifications of this go beyond just the intentions of the prayer. I don’t mean to be secrective but I just don’t want to get to personal. It has nothing to do with health or healing or any sort of a miracle. It is more of a tangible thing that we had the power to do something about, did all we could do and the result was still a failure. The ramifications are, that along with this prayer request, I continuosly and unceasingly also pray for my family to grow closer to God. This turnout will turn my family further away.

At this point, my hands are shaken and my frustration is without bounds.

To be honest, right now, I feel like an idiot, like a fool and niave for believing there is a God at all.

Now, I have nowhere to turn because this “God” I tried so hard to believe, proves either His indifference, or His non-existance.

I’m an absolute idiot for believing such a fairytale.
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God cannot fail nor can He not hear you or any other persons prayer. Whether He answeres the way you desire is another point.
He may know that the general outcome you wish for might be worse than you think.
He could be saving you from desaster.

God bless
 
Mijoy2 said:
…
My reaction when the event occured, was emotional. I’m still bewildered by the “no”, but I think I have it in better perspective. I will take the advice and reread the replies. I want to thank all who replied.

… I was victiim of the bubble burst loosing an awful lot of money (virtually all of it greater then 90%). If I had sold at that time I’d likely have enough to be able to retire today. But, I didn’t and I don’t. I figure I have cried enough tears over that spilled milk. I’m happy for you that things worked out the way they did for you! And thank you for your reply regarding my issue.
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Mijoy -
I was once told that we shouldn’t pray for money. I don’t know what the “fine print” or “footnotes” are but Mom used to tell me that. However, I know the feeling of wondering whether next year will be better financially after years of being somewhat comfortable while out of work as a caregiver. I’m not retirement age but the years spent away from a regular paycheck are going to reflect big time in my future (anything from bills to social security being less - health insurance, etc.)

But we shouldn’t pray for money. I think for prosperity and the ability to meet our needs, etc. Remember that Bible quote about the sparrows? They do not worry about tomorrow, yet your Heavenly Father feeds them. Consider the lilies of the field. They neither toil nor do they reap. But I tell you, Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed as one of these.

I know that’s not an exact quote - and it’s hard not to worry if there’s enough in the checking account or a job offer - but we’ll all figure something out.

Amen -
Conservative
 
God’s ways are not our ways. And our ways are not God’s ways.

Sometimes we find out right away why we didn’t get what we asked for.

Sometimes we look back decades later and the reason hits us.

Maybe there is something better out there for us.

Maybe we need to learn something.

Maybe we need to meet someone.

So, in that context, it’s not that prayer has failed but that it is just one of life’s ups and downs.

Someone once complained to me about how he missed out on a great opportunity. He had been in the military and had undergone a lot of testing and interviewing and gotten into a snit over some minor thing and when orders came, he was not able to be found immediately and the orders got cancelled. DECADES later, he learned that the highly prized assignment that he missed out on, in which he would have played a very minor part, resulted in more than 50% of the participants being killed. So, he had been spared. It was “divine intervention” that he 1) had been spared and 2) found out about the outcome when a total stranger started a conversation with him. I “just happened” to be present when the stranger showed up; and I witnessed the discussion. ]

Most of the time we never find out what the reason is for something “going wrong”. But sometimes, we are privileged to find out.

Say a prayer of thanksgiving for this misfortune.
 
Conservative said:
Mijoy -
I was once told that we shouldn’t pray for money. I don’t know what the “fine print” or “footnotes” are but Mom used to tell me that. However, I know the feeling of wondering whether next year will be better financially after years of being somewhat comfortable while out of work as a caregiver. I’m not retirement age but the years spent away from a regular paycheck are going to reflect big time in my future (anything from bills to social security being less - health insurance, etc.)

But we shouldn’t pray for money. I think for prosperity and the ability to meet our needs, etc. Remember that Bible quote about the sparrows? They do not worry about tomorrow, yet your Heavenly Father feeds them. Consider the lilies of the field. They neither toil nor do they reap. But I tell you, Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed as one of these.

I know that’s not an exact quote - and it’s hard not to worry if there’s enough in the checking account or a job offer - but we’ll all figure something out.

Amen -
Conservative
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No no, I didn’t, nor wouldn’t pray for money or any other material thing. I think you may have misunderstood, the “money” discussion was a side thing, not the event I prayed for.
 
I resurrected this thread because the “event” prayed for was once again answered with a resounding “NO”. This is terribly distressing. For lent, I was to say a daily rosary. As part of this rosary I dedicated one decade a day to t his cause. When the prayer was once again against answered with a “No” (or never heard), I found I could not continue with my self imposed lentan commitment. I simply could not. Maybe, hopefully I can get a renewed faith to continue.

This got me to thinking, yet again, about prayer. I hope I can articulate this well. When a prayer is not answered in the affirmative as we hope, we conclude from this that the reason is that it is not Gods will to answer in the affirmative. We try to accept this answer. When all indications are that there are no obvious reasons why the answer would be NO, we struggle and it take a greater faith to accept this. I failed at this faith, admittedly.

This answer “God will make a greater good come from His answer of NO, to this prayer”, presents a problem to me. Although I can understand this if our prayer was for a new BMW, I struggle with it if it is for say, someone to have a safe journey, or someone to not suffer some terrible crime, or some other issue that seems to us to be something that lacks all logic that it owuld be denied.

This is my problem. Please allow me this impossible hypothetical. Let’s assume there was some way in which we could determine beyond a shadow of a doubt there was in fact no God (I know this cannot ever be proven in this manner, but for the sake of making my point I ask you to bare with me). The manner in which prayers are randomly answered, appear directly consistant with randomness, or statistics. I believe there have been studies to illustrate this (probably very flawed studies). Studies that illustrate that people who are prayed for have no better likelyhood of recovering from an illness then those who are not prayed for. If God either does not exist, or does not hear our prayer, or hear our prayer but has some other agenda, such as lettinng nature take it’s course with no supernatural intervention (the scenario I lean most toward), then we would be enlightened to the apparent shallowness of our answer. That our prayer played no part in what we prayed for.

Does anybody know of any good apologetics (books, CDs, articles), that discuss this from this perspective? I’d appreciate any (name removed by moderator)ut. I’m struggling, at this point in my faith, to pray at all.
I feel I am speaking to the wind.
 
Mijoy
.
I believe there have been studies to illustrate this (probably very flawed studies). Studies that illustrate that people who are prayed for have no better likelyhood of recovering from an illness then those who are not prayed for.
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The only study I know of on this case, was done recently. It was conducted where one group of people with physical ailments, had people praying for them. Another similar group of the same number, had no one praying for them. Both groups came out the same as far as the number of people who recovered verses those who did not.

The problem with this sort of experiment is that it puts God to the test, which in itself is sinful.

Also, the purpose of prayer in this case, was totally misunderstood. We don’t pray for miracles, but rather, for the will of God to be fulfilled and that we will receive His grace to not only get through it, but to come closer to God, and understand His purpose.

I don’t have any books off the top of my head that come to mind, but only my own experience in prayer, and how prayer has worked in my life. I’ve seen actual miracles, and I’ve seen people go to death, both in the grace of God, and in rejection of God. There is a marked difference.

The bottom line is that its a matter of faith. Those who have it, need no explanation. Those who don’t, no explanation will suffice.

Jim
 
JimR-OCDS said:
Mijoy
.

The only study I know of on this case, was done recently. It was conducted where one group of people with physical ailments, had people praying for them. Another similar group of the same number, had no one praying for them. Both groups came out the same as far as the number of people who recovered verses those who did not.

The problem with this sort of experiment is that it puts God to the test, which in itself is sinful.

Also, the purpose of prayer in this case, was totally misunderstood. We don’t pray for miracles, but rather, for the will of God to be fulfilled and that we will receive His grace to not only get through it, but to come closer to God, and understand His purpose.

I don’t have any books off the top of my head that come to mind, but only my own experience in prayer, and how prayer has worked in my life. I’ve seen actual miracles, and I’ve seen people go to death, both in the grace of God, and in rejection of God. There is a marked difference.

The bottom line is that its a matter of faith. Those who have it, need no explanation. Those who don’t, no explanation will suffice.

Jim
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Thank you, I appreciate the reply. I’m off to read what the Cathechism says about prayer. Hopefully I’ll be enlighteded.

Your quote: The bottom line is that its a matter of faith. Those who have it, need no explanation. Those who don’t, no explanation will suffice.

Is one I have heard often. With respect to the situation, though, it’s more of the same. Seemingly an answer in leu of answers.

Wherever I end up at the conclusion of this life, I look forward to someday understanding the reason why God remains ellusive to my desperate desires to obtain an intellectual belief of His presence. Of course, if it’s from God, it’s a darn good reason. But that is the question isn’t it…“if”.

I lay somewhere in between the two scenarios of:

The bottom line is that its a matter of faith. Those who have it, need no explanation. Here I sit. Those who don’t, no explanation will suffice.
 
Dr. Sun Yat-San, a baptized Christian, a Chinese revolutionary, and the “Father of modern China” failed 9 times in his effort of revolution, and eventually brought the collapse of the Qing Dynasty in 1911, established modern China.

Since he was a Christian, do you think he did not pray for his mission?
After so many lives were sacrificed, at the tenth time, his vision came through.
Did God not hear his prayers earlier? Was God’s will not to have a modern China?
If Dr. Sun threw his towel at the 9th time, would the modern China be born in 1911?

If the thing you are praying about is to do with some personal effort, and if you know that personal effort is worthwhile, then keep on making the effort, try again. Sometimes we don’t get the answer we want because there are more efforts need to be made. God may be saying “not yet”. You can choose to give up, or you can choose to be persistent, depending on the nature of the prayer request.

And keep in mind, when talking to our Heavenly Father, we cannot have an attitude of “if you don’t give it to me now, I am not going to talk to you anymore.” We don’t want our children to hold such an attitude to us, do we?

God bless!
 
InLight247 said:
And keep in mind, when talking to our Heavenly Father, we cannot have an attitude of “if you don’t give it to me now, I am not going to talk to you anymore.” We don’t want our children to hold such an attitude to us, do we?

God bless!
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Yes, my heart of hearts know this. I do have a childish side. Thank you for your reply.
 
I had a long response to you that was lost because someone walked by and knocked into me as I was typing.

I understand your doubt and despair. When you began this post several months ago, you said that you thought of Job. I believe God brought this story to your mind not so that it could be twisted into an accusation against those who perpetuate religion, but so that you could understand God’s understanding and compassion for you. God does understand. Have you read the book of Job lately? If you have not, I encourage you to read Job, and also the Psalms. Listen to Job tell the Lord that he wishes he had not been born. When you hear Job cry out to God, and the despair of his heart, then it will become impossible to not know and understand that God has felt your very pain and hears the pain of his servants. When we pray the Sorrowful Mysteries of the rosary, our despair and hopelessness is joined to the Lord’s own despair, who was “grieved to the point of death” in the garden.

He knows your pain. He knows your child’s pain. Not only does He know, He is experiencing it even as we speak. He is here with you, and He is feeling what you and your child feel.

The best answer I have found to the question you ask, “why does God deny our most sincere and fervent petitions?” was answered by Joni Erackson Tada. Most people know who she is; she is a quadriplegic who ministers to the most desperate people who have endured the most difficult tragedies.

According to Joni, the answer is not understood through the intellect or the understanding of the mind. It cannot always be explained by a trite country song, like,“I thank God for unanswered prayers”. Instead, the real and true answer to why is a Person. Our answer is Him, our Savior.

When we suffer, we overcome the world and every failure, tragedy, and instance of injustice through His Presence in our lives. When you are pushed somewhere beyond hope, then that is when He must be fully present in your life. He will suffer everything with you.

Paul prayed three times that a thorn in his side be removed. God did not remove the thorn. Finally, Paul accepted that though God shook the walls of a prison to free him, God allowed him to suffer so that His strength would be made perfect in Paul’s weakness.
 
Mijoy2
The bottom line is that its a matter of faith. Those who have it, need no explanation. Here I sit. Those who don’t, no explanation will suffice.
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Well, try to keep in mind Jesus’ prayer.

“My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from me; yet, not as I will, but as you will.” Matthew 26:39. He repeated his request again, “Withdrawing a second time, he prayed again, ‘My Father, if it is not possible that this cup pass without my drinking it, your will be done!’” Matthew 26:42

Our prayer should be no different that that of Jesus, who was going to the cross, “thy will be done.”

Jim
 
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