R
Rau
Guest
Would you be stressed if you came to concur with the teaching?
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B
Bookcat
Guest
Natural Law says more than that…unfortunately the sinfulness of the current surrounding culture as made peoples vision rather cloudy…even of those seeking to do good and reason about things. Tis the culture we swim in.The Natural Law says life is good and it’s natural to stay healthy, to protect life.
Compendium from Pope Benedict XVI
416. In what does the natural moral law consist?
1954-1960
1978-1979
The natural law which is inscribed by the Creator on the heart of every person consists in a participation in the wisdom and the goodness of God. It expresses that original moral sense which enables one to discern by reason the good and the bad. It is universal and immutable and determines the basis of the duties and fundamental rights of the person as well as those of the human community and civil law.
**
417. Is such a law perceived by everyone?**
1960
Because of sin the natural law is not always perceived nor is it recognized by everyone with equal clarity and immediacy.
vatican.va/archive/compendium_ccc/documents/archive_2005_compendium-ccc_en.html
Tis the nature of marriage and the marital act - as seen quite readily by the ordinary person prior to the advent of the popularization of the evil of contraception - and the current corruption of the surrounding culture - people knew what marriage and sex were for.
J
Jaaanosik
Guest
Yes, it’s OK to observe one’s fertility but I am not pretending the measurement is natural.Life is full of risks.
So you agree it is ok to observe one’s fertility (with a view to regulating sexual activity) if it can be done with zero risk to self? Your objection to NFP is about personal risks?
Do you have an opinion? Is it natural or not?
B
Bookcat
Guest
Humm…you must have read rather distractedly for if you had read so many documents you would not be asking:I read many documents…
I still don’t see the logic there, I guess nothing new.
For those documents get into all manner of aspects of why the Church Teaches what she does about this…How did the Church reason?
… or it’s just the Church says…?
J
Jaaanosik
Guest
I don’t think I am stressed. I accept the reality as I see it. It makes me happy.Would you be stressed if you came to concur with the teaching?
B
Bookcat
Guest
It is not about it being “natural”Yes, it’s OK to observe one’s fertility but I am not pretending the measurement is natural.
Do you have an opinion? Is it natural or not?
It is about being in conformity to the meaning of marriage and the marital act and the moral truths involved.
It is about moral means.
Natural is just a word the got used.
One simply call it as the Church does: periodic continence.
Take the natural right out of it.
This is not about natural vs artificial or something.
R
Rau
Guest
What is “natural” as applied to the daily activities of man?Yes, it’s OK to observe one’s fertility but I am not pretending the measurement is natural.
Do you have an opinion? Is it natural or not?
I asked you previously if tapping on an iPhone is unnatural, and whether there is a standing prohibition against such things. Or are we pretending something?
B
Bookcat
Guest
What is needed on an ongoing basis for us all?
Renewal of the mind
vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/homilies/2009/documents/hf_ben-xvi_hom_20090628_chius-anno-paolino_en.html
(it starts second paragraph - read it all)
From Pope Benedict XVI -please take time for reading this splendid text.
Renewal of the mind
vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/homilies/2009/documents/hf_ben-xvi_hom_20090628_chius-anno-paolino_en.html
(it starts second paragraph - read it all)
From Pope Benedict XVI -please take time for reading this splendid text.
J
Jaaanosik
Guest
Please, answer the question. Is measuring temperature natural or not?Humm…you must have read rather distractedly for if you had read so many documents you would not be asking:
For those documents get into all manner of aspects of why the Church Teaches what she does about this…
J
Jaaanosik
Guest
How do you compare the health risk of tapping the phone and measuring the temperature between the legs?What is “natural” as applied to the daily activities of man?
I asked you previously if tapping on an iPhone is unnatural, and whether there is a standing prohibition against such things. Or are we pretending something?
Any ratio?
… and you are not answering the simple question. Natural or not?
B
Bookcat
Guest
Who cares?Please, answer the question. Is measuring temperature natural or not?
Has nothing to do with the anything.
It is NOT about a means being natural or artificial.
Nothing to do with it.
One can engage in all sorts of “natural” forms of contraception. They too are gravely sinful. Immoral means.
J
Jaaanosik
Guest
Well, there you go.Who cares?
Has nothing to do with the anything.
It is NOT about a means being natural or artificial.
Nothing to do with it.
One can engage in all sorts of “natural” forms of contraception. They too are gravely sinful. Immoral means.
Afraid to answer? Why?
B
Bookcat
Guest
Lets see…where is that word “natural” there in terms of the method???
From the Compendium issued by Pope Benedict XVI
**
497. When is it moral to regulate births?**
2368-2369
2399
The regulation of births, which is an aspect of responsible fatherhood and motherhood, is objectively morally acceptable when it is pursued by the spouses without external pressure; when it is practiced not out of selfishness but for serious reasons; and with methods that conform to the objective criteria of morality, that is, periodic continence and use of the infertile periods.
498. What are immoral means of birth control?
2370-2372
Every action - for example, direct sterilization or contraception - is intrinsically immoral which (either in anticipation of the conjugal act, in its accomplishment or in the development of its natural consequences) proposes, as an end or as a means, to hinder procreation.
vatican.va/archive/compendium_ccc/documents/archive_2005_compendium-ccc_en.html
*
No where.*
NFP is just one name that was coined for one way of Period Continence.
*Immoral *means can be “natural” and moral means can use “science” of knowledge via a man-made device of measurement.
“Natural” or Not is not the focus or the point.
From the Compendium issued by Pope Benedict XVI
**
497. When is it moral to regulate births?**
2368-2369
2399
The regulation of births, which is an aspect of responsible fatherhood and motherhood, is objectively morally acceptable when it is pursued by the spouses without external pressure; when it is practiced not out of selfishness but for serious reasons; and with methods that conform to the objective criteria of morality, that is, periodic continence and use of the infertile periods.
498. What are immoral means of birth control?
2370-2372
Every action - for example, direct sterilization or contraception - is intrinsically immoral which (either in anticipation of the conjugal act, in its accomplishment or in the development of its natural consequences) proposes, as an end or as a means, to hinder procreation.
vatican.va/archive/compendium_ccc/documents/archive_2005_compendium-ccc_en.html
*
No where.*
NFP is just one name that was coined for one way of Period Continence.
*Immoral *means can be “natural” and moral means can use “science” of knowledge via a man-made device of measurement.
“Natural” or Not is not the focus or the point.
R
Rau
Guest
Agreed. Words like “natural” (and normal) often seem - taken in general - to be a bit relative, influenced by context both in the present and over time. What activities were natural in ancient times? Surely much of what is considered “natural” now (education in abstract things, tinned food…) was not then. Natural thus seems not highly useful as a guide to much of anything.It is not about it being “natural”
…This is not about natural vs artificial or something.
R
Rau
Guest
That response is not addressing my question.I don’t think I am stressed. I accept the reality as I see it. It makes me happy.
B
Bookcat
Guest
No.Well, there you go.
Afraid to answer? Why?
Why? because it has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion.
But the road to a strawman.
The morality is not about if it is natural or not.
Lets see…where is that word “natural” In terms of the method?
From the Compendium issued by Pope Benedict XVI
497. When is it moral to regulate births?
2368-2369
2399
The regulation of births, which is an aspect of responsible fatherhood and motherhood, is objectively morally acceptable when it is pursued by the spouses without external pressure; when it is practiced not out of selfishness but for serious reasons; and with methods that conform to the objective criteria of morality, that is, periodic continence and use of the infertile periods.
**
498. What are immoral means of birth control?**
2370-2372
Every action - for example, direct sterilization or contraception - is intrinsically immoral which (either in anticipation of the conjugal act, in its accomplishment or in the development of its natural consequences) proposes, as an end or as a means, to hinder procreation.
vatican.va/archive/compen…um-ccc_en.html
No where.
NFP is just one name that was coined for one way of Period Continence.
*Immoral *means can be “natural” and moral means can use “science” of knowledge via a man-made device of measurement.
Being “Natural” or not - is not the focus or the point.
R
Rau
Guest
I’ve no idea! BTW - I don’t think basel temperature needs to be measured between the legs!How do you compare the health risk of tapping the phone and measuring the temperature between the legs?
I’ve no idea how to apply the word “natural” in such a context. If you ask me, is it “natural” to fall asleep after a hard day of work and a nice dinner while watching TV lounging on the couch, I think I’d conclude yes, even if there is a glass of wine in my hand at the time.… and you are not answering the simple question. Natural or not?
If you ask me is it natural to tap on an iPhone communicating anonymously with strangers at a great distance all looking at luminescent screens - - I don’t know how to apply the word “natural” to that. And I’m sure I can’t see a reason to do so. It does not seem to bear on anything.
B
Bookcat
Guest
Got to go…but I offer again this:
What is needed on an ongoing basis for us all?
Renewal of the mind
vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/homilies/2009/documents/hf_ben-xvi_hom_20090628_chius-anno-paolino_en.html
(it starts second paragraph - read it all)
From Pope Benedict XVI -please take time for reading this splendid text.
What is needed on an ongoing basis for us all?
Renewal of the mind
vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/homilies/2009/documents/hf_ben-xvi_hom_20090628_chius-anno-paolino_en.html
(it starts second paragraph - read it all)
From Pope Benedict XVI -please take time for reading this splendid text.
J
Jaaanosik
Guest
It’s a simple question.Lets see…where is that word “natural” there in terms of the method???
From the Compendium issued by Pope Benedict XVI
**
497. When is it moral to regulate births?**
2368-2369
2399
The regulation of births, which is an aspect of responsible fatherhood and motherhood, is objectively morally acceptable when it is pursued by the spouses without external pressure; when it is practiced not out of selfishness but for serious reasons; and with methods that conform to the objective criteria of morality, that is, periodic continence and use of the infertile periods.
498. What are immoral means of birth control?
2370-2372
Every action - for example, direct sterilization or contraception - is intrinsically immoral which (either in anticipation of the conjugal act, in its accomplishment or in the development of its natural consequences) proposes, as an end or as a means, to hinder procreation.
vatican.va/archive/compendium_ccc/documents/archive_2005_compendium-ccc_en.html
*
No where.*
NFP is just one name that was coined for one way of Period Continence.
*Immoral *means can be “natural” and moral means can use “science” of knowledge via a man-made device of measurement.
“Natural” or Not is not the focus or the point.
Is the temperature measurement natural or not?
It appears you clearly see that it is not but you are afraid to admit it.
I wonder why…
J
Jaaanosik
Guest
I’ll repeat.I’ve no idea! BTW - I don’t think basel temperature needs to be measured between the legs!
I’ve no idea how to apply the word “natural” in such a context. If you ask me, is it “natural” to fall asleep after a hard day of work and a nice dinner while watching TV lounging on the couch, I think I’d conclude yes, even if there is a glass of wine in my hand at the time.
If you ask me is it natural to tap on an iPhone communicating anonymously with strangers at a great distance all looking at luminescent screens - - I don’t know how to apply the word “natural” to that. And I’m sure I can’t see a reason to do so. It does not seem to bear on anything.
The Natural Law says life is good and it’s good to protect it, to stay healthy to support and to sustain life.
Do you agree?
It follows that to increase risk of infection is against the health, the life.
Do you agree?
To put one’s health at risk is a moral act. What is the moral object of this act?
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