Where does Christ fit in the LDS teaching on Salvation?

[ParkerD]

Is any LDS going to respond to Misty? I am curious as to what the answer is going to be

WMScott,

The LDS know that Jesus Christ is God the Son, and is Immanuel. I wouldn’t say that we use the term “God incarnate” because that becomes a confusing term if a person understands that God the Father and God the Son are separate and distinct Persons, both Perfect and both One in will, purposes, and glory.

To enter the presence of the Father means a person has covenanted with Christ and the Father and has kept their covenants and has “overcome” all the wiles of the adversary and endured the “whom the Lord loveth He chasteneth” events in life, which allows the Savior to Advocate for that person to be a joint heir with Christ of “all things” as the book of Revelation says.

 

[GaryTaylor]

The sin of Adam and Eve brought death into the world. Not just physical death, but more importantly, spiritual death. God warned them before they ate of the fruit that this would be the case. The serpent lied to them and they lost trust in God. They believed the serpent instead. Even in their disobedience, God loved them so much that He promised them a Savior. To save them from what? Prior to the sin, which brought death, they were not in need of a Savior. This is the entire plot on which the story of salvation history is based. From that point forward man would be waiting for the Savior because without Him we were doomed to eternal death.

Clearly, we are saved from death, spiritual death, which is eternal. We call this spiritual death, hell, and Jesus spoke about it often. The Savior came to bring us eternal life. He came to restore that which had been lost through the disobedience of Adam and Eve and, subsequently, our own disobedience. The Mormon faith has watered down the reality of hell, IMO, and thus lost the true meaning of salvation. The notion that it really doesn’t matter what one does, you will still make it to some level of heaven, is incredibly dangerous. If I am drowning and someone comes to rescue me, I am being rescued from death, not rescued to a better life. I realize that I have oversimplified this, but that is my understanding of the Mormon position in a nutshell. I am happy to be corrected if I am wrong.

This is what I referred to in the other thread. Where the LDS arrives from scripture?

The Catholic postion in Genesis is justified through Romans 5:14 , 1-Corinthians15:22, Hosea 6:7. An as Paul correctly spoke on, and all the Hebrews of the time believed this.

Let alone the fact in Revelation the Tree of Life “which Adam and Eve” are seperated from re-appears as does its New Truth. The only way to everlasting life now is Gods Commandments. Which lead to the Tree of Life, gee …the Catholic way is so logical and makes so much sense

The punishment of Adam and Eve by God is eventual death. The consequence of listening to the snake instead of God, is to know right from wrong, good from bad. Which really means, deciding for ourselves what is right from wrong. Which we immediatly see when this couple realize’s they are naked and thus feel ashamed. They enter into the original sin of disobeying God. Which was to eat the fruit they were specifically told not to.

Eve says “We can’t even touch it”. So we can assume their is already a tad of resentment in play which the serpent plays off of. The serpent doesn’t lie, but it only acts in deceit. He states you will be “LIKE” God “Knowing Good and evil” Which they immediately do when the eat the fruit [know good from evil]. They just didn’t know they would be unhappy once the deal was sealed. And the “like” God part went right over their heads!

This is one of the fateful moments in Bible, and in world history. Man and woman have a perfect situation…BUT SOMETHING TEMPS THEM!!! They want MORE than what they what they have. They want to be Like GOD! Wiser more in control of their own destiny and with a noncaring attitude to the LAW.

God asks the Obvious question. “Why did you eat the Fruit”? As I mention at this point we hear all the wonderfull human quality gush out. BUT…what we don’t hear is “I’M SORRY” or how about “Please Forgive Us”? no regrets whatsoever. This may well explain why God also doesn’t offer them a second chance? Personally I would have been begging.

On top of all this folly, they allow themselve’s to be led astray by a snake? Remember now, God gave man dominion over the Beast. So who do they listen to? The snake? Instead of saying, “Oh no I will ask God about this fruit tommorrow” be gone serpent. They listen to the snake. Instead, Eve thinks like a child “Oooh that fruit is so pretty” remember the fruit “was pleasing to the eye” right?

Another Bible lesson, judging by appearence gets us in trouble, which is why we rely on the Gods Church the Catholic Church!!! So everything is “clearly defined”

So they run and hide from God and make up excuse’s. Adam blames Eve, Eve blames the snake, No repentance whatsoever, they don’t repent. They wanted to be like God! They were ultimately responsible for their disobediance. Just as all of us are. Remember “I take full responsibility for the position I find myself in” Are their injustice’s in life? Of course there are. This wasn’t one through.

Also man and woman are “created equal” How about that theory? Now when Original Sin enters the equation we have a problem, male domination enters the equation. And a few other issues pain in child birth, labor for woman, labor in the fields for man.

Call the story legend, call the story history, but definately call it TRUTH! When people do wrong they act exactly like Adam and Eve did, its human nature. We do what we know is wrong, and we aviod the inevitable punishment. We try to excuse what we did blaming others, all very human behavior.

The shame associated with nakedness means that sex instead of being beautiful. is going to cause some serious problem for manking. How we doing over ther on the Mormon side with this???

Marriage and.exuality become contentious instead of blissful. Paradise is lost! from this point on Gods “good” creation is constantly marred by sin…Original Sin. Adam in Hebrew mean “man”. 1st Man=Adam one of the same.

I could go on and relate this to Pauls sermons and letters in the NT which BTW coincide with original sin, But I’m interested in the LDS perspective?

 

[ParkerD]

…I’m interested in the LDS perspective?

Gary Taylor,

Sorry that I don’t have time to address your questions, but here is a thread from April 2010 that covers some of those questions:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=435463

Again, sorry–I don’t have time right now for more than looking that up.

 

[SteveVH]

This is what I referred to in the other thread. Where the LDS arrives from scripture?

The Catholic postion in Genesis is justified through Romans 5:14 , 1-Corinthians15:22, Hosea 6:7. An as Paul correctly spoke on, and all the Hebrews of the time believed this…

I could go on and relate this to Pauls sermons and letters in the NT which BTW coincide with original sin, But I’m interested in the LDS perspective?

You are correct. The serpent placed doubt into the hearts of Adam and Eve. They could eat of every other tree in the garden. Was God holding out on them? They lost their trust in God and that sin has permeated the human race to this day.

The LDS position is that the fall was a good and necessary thing and that Adam was forced to eat of the fruit because he was commanded by God to stick with Eve. Adam was placed in an impossible situation by an all-knowing, loving God. He was commanded not to eat of the Tree and at the same time commanded to stay with Eve so the poor guy had no choice but to disobey God one way or the other. The entire premise of this impossible notion is that God basically forced Adam to sin. He left him no other options. Unbelievable, to say the least.

It is nothing but absolute foolishness and I am truly amazed that anyone can buy into this.

 

[flyonthewall]

Is any LDS going to respond to Misty? I am curious as to what the answer is going to be

Misty is selectively listening to only things she thinks will discredit us. If you want to know what someone is saying, look to more than just one little snippet.
Here is what Gordon B. Hinckley stated in addition to Misty’s quote:

April 2002 General Conference Address “We Look to Christ”
As a Church we have critics, many of them. They say we do not believe in the traditional Christ of Christianity. There is some substance to what they say. Our faith, our knowledge is not based on ancient tradition, the creeds which came of a finite understanding and out of the almost infinite discussions of men trying to arrive at a definition of the risen Christ. **Our faith, our knowledge **comes of the witness of a prophet in this dispensation who saw before him the great God of the universe and His Beloved Son, the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ. They spoke to him. He spoke with Them. He testified openly, unequivocally, and unabashedly of that great vision. It was a vision of the Almighty and of the Redeemer of the world, glorious beyond our understanding but certain and unequivocating in the knowledge which it brought. It is out of that knowledge, rooted deep in the soil of modern revelation, that we, in the words of Nephi, “talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies, that [we and] our children may know to what source [we] may look for a remission of [our] sins” (2 Ne. 25:26).

As you can plainly see, we do not believe in a separate individual we label as “Christ”, but it is our faith and knowledge about Christ that differs from traditional Christianity.

 

[KathleenGee]

Flyonthewall,

Doing so, you miss out on too much about the truth of Christ…With the huge gap from the historical, societal, and anthropological, geographical sources of Christ’s origins, Christ taken away from His people to a huge time gap, to redefining Christ in a remote region and in a remote time with no concrete signs of any existence of any Jewish tribes here…yes, you are missing alot of supportive insights into the reality of Christ.

He came to us a long time ago. He never left, generation after generation to those who have been truly open to Him.

What you have is in essence an American Mormon Christ…with some reassurance from Bible usage. And that what makes Mormonism a separate religion. You can’t bridge the two between Christianity (your religion calls us Gentiles…a form of goya)…and Mormonism.

 

[ParkerD]

… (your religion calls us Gentiles).

KathleenGee,

The Bible says that there would be descendants of the house of Israel scattered among the Gentile nations, of which the United States would fall under that category. So did you know that you might be a descendant of the house of Israel, based on the Bible which you believe to be true?

Even if you were a “Gentile”, Paul was a valiant missionary to the Gentiles and raised the standard that no one should think being considered a “Gentile” was any different in the Lord’s eyes or in His plan of salvation than being a literal descendant member of the house of Israel.

 

[flyonthewall]

Hello all;

In another discussion thread, an issue was raised that I would like to carry over to a new discussion. The issue is:

DOES THE LDS CHURCH TEACH THAT A PERSON’S GOOD WORKS APART FROM CHRIST CAN MERIT SALVATION.

I would like to give LDS members the opportunity to explain what they believe about good works and salvation. Is there a requirement that works be done in and through Jesus Christ or does the LDS Church teach that we are to simply look to Jesus as the perfect example for living a life pleasing to God?

I would like to hear the LDS perspective on this issue. What part, if any, does Jesus play in an individual’s personal salvation.

Thanks,
-Rob

Good works are a part of faith. Faith without works is dead. Faith is required for Salvation. With living faith, the atonement of Christ can be partaken of in the fullest measure.
Jesus did set an example, and we look to Him as a pattern, but more than just an example, He is the author of our salvation, the Redeemer of the world.
There is nothing we can do to merit Salvation outside of the atonement, it is only through the atonement that our works mean anything.

 

[mormonfollower]

First you need to know that the Jesus of Mormonism isn’t the Jesus of Christianity, so he has no power to save anyone. Secondly salvation in Mormonism comes by being baptized into the Mormon Church, along with their temple ordinances, and then comes Jesus. In Mormonism you are saved by Jesus only after all you can do.

I would really appreciate if you could look up the actual beliefs of the church on lds.org and not the beliefs that someone else said.

 

[Peter_John]

Good works are a part of faith. Faith without works is dead. Faith is required for Salvation. With living faith, the atonement of Christ can be partaken of in the fullest measure.
Jesus did set an example, and we look to Him as a pattern, but more than just an example, He is the author of our salvation, the Redeemer of the world.
There is nothing we can do to merit Salvation outside of the atonement, it is only through the atonement that our works mean anything.

Works without Faith is secular humanism.