Where does extreme clothing modesty come from?

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BlestOne:
My rule of thumb:
If my dress (or that of my children) could reasonably cause another person to sin…it is immodest.
If I am uncomfortable because I have to keep checking to see if my slip is showing …it is immodest.
If others are distracted by my mode of dress …it is immodest.(or inappropriate)

As one of the other posters mentioned, I see some other faiths mandating that their female members wear ankle length skirts and the little doily things in their hair. I have no problem with how they are dressed, what I do have a problem with is that the more these things are dictated the more their congregants seem to rebel in some not so nice ways. For instance, a local church in my town requires women to dress as such, and in addition they have many rules, for example, they are not allowed to watch movies. On any given day, you can see more than one of these members in the video store pretending not to recognize each other. I think this is promoting deceit among their people. I pray that we would “cloak ourselves in our godly deeds” rather than in material adornments.
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You have made a very good point here…Rigidity can cause real harm to people…Make them into hypocrits, when they really just want to be who they really are. Some churches forbid drinking, and even use grape juice for communion…Yet, I know for a fact that many of these people have beer or wine in their homes. Why make people lie, or be decietful? Seems all wrong to me.

The modest dressing thing has been hashed out over and over. I still think that people should dress appropriately for their activities, and to wear clothes that are modest and clean. That’s it…No ridid rules about the proper length of sleeves or hems, no rules regarding the color of clothing, or the use of bathing suits…Just common sense…

I think some people have simply gone overboard…The RULES give them structure, and to follow them to the letter (and let everyone know they do so) is nothing more than being “holier than thou”…Something we should all avoid.

Common sense seems to be the way to go…And, everyone should follow their informed conscience in matters of modesty and dress…And…No one should judge another’s spriituality by the way they are dressed.

The women in the airport may indeed have simply been following their consciences in this matter…Not showing off. There was NO difference between the person who was watching them, and themselves…Both had the same ability to be spiritual, and to be called Christian.

I just made a trip to Wyoming (from Cincinnati). I had two layovers…one in Chicago, and one in Dever…I wore jeans, a shirt, a shirt over the t-shirt (for warmth), and my trusty Easy Spirit Walking Shoes…never go far without those babies…And, I carried my rosary, plus my prised Daily Roman MIssal. No one looking at me could tell (except for my medals, of course) that I was or was not a Catholic, or even a Christian. Ok…The medals gave me away…But, the point is that my clothing…while casual, was certainly modest and appropriate for what I was doing…Flying from here to there and back! Comfort and convenience were my motivations when choosing my attire…

The thing is…Take care of yourself, and let others make their own decisions regarding how they will dress…I know I have enough trouble keeping myself in line, and don’t have the energy or time to think much about what others are wearing. I do notice it, but don’t say much…It’s not my place to do so…Although I have to admit that there have been times when I would have LOVED to put in a word or two to some people!
 
I’m going to back up a post that I saw earlier, Kathelsie I believe, and say that Mass is the “highpoint” of our week where we go and offer up all praise and honor to God. Wearing your best is not about impressing other people, nor “impressing” God, but showing Him that you respect His house and all that He has done for you enough to put extra effort in your appearance and behavior. This is at least the one time of the week where we should look like “men” and “women” that He created us to be…think about how the Vatican has such strict dress codes, despite the nude beaches that exist not too far from there!

Why do you think that is?

Duh! The Church is promoting that we must have respect in appearance and behavior when entering “God’s House”!

Just a thought. I find it hard to wear skirts everyday, and moreover, I don’t think that it is morally crucial as long as I “cover up” but I don’t find it hard to take the effort to wear “feminine clothing” once a week for an hour!

Jess Hav
 
I saw on EWTN last year a woman speaking about a book she had written called Dress With Dignity. I meant to buy it, but have not as yet. She said that she used to dress much more like the popular culture. As I recall she had won beauty contests before her TV carreer. Then she came across studies that demonstrated that even a good man’s eyes tend to go to a woman’s crotch. The more she read, she became convinced that in charity to men she and others would meet, she needed to commit to wearing dresses and skirts instead of pants. Thus she wrote the book. Our daughters need training and good example regarding the fact that men are visually stimulated more than women are. We need to love our brothers in Christ enough to make an effort to be modest. Exactly what that is for a particular woman may differ because of age or body shape. If more closets had 3-way mirrors, I think more women would swear off pants!!! Easter blessings to all.
 
thehiddenlife said:
I saw on EWTN last year a woman speaking about a book she had written called Dress With Dignity. I meant to buy it, but have not as yet. She said that she used to dress much more like the popular culture. As I recall she had won beauty contests before her TV carreer. Then she came across studies that demonstrated that even a good man’s eyes tend to go to a woman’s crotch. The more she read, she became convinced that in charity to men she and others would meet, she needed to commit to wearing dresses and skirts instead of pants. Thus she wrote the book. Our daughters need training and good example regarding the fact that men are visually stimulated more than women are. We need to love our brothers in Christ enough to make an effort to be modest. Exactly what that is for a particular woman may differ because of age or body shape. If more closets had 3-way mirrors, I think more women would swear off pants!!! Easter blessings to all.
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Bless you, Hiddenlife. You do have the care of souls at the center of your life. God is blessing you for it and is blessing others through your gentle commitment. I believe immodesty is an expression of rebellion against God and of hubris. Immodesty is not of God. As a man, I affirm your observation about male instincts. I don’t know if that instinct is from the fall or from God but sinful thoughts can develop from a glance if the one glanced at dresses puposely with provocation.

Eastern Christians and Roman Catholics who attend more traditional Churches have the advantage of seeing how saints dress. We are inspired to follow their examples. Notice from this Church’s website how men and women are dressed. To be truely human is to be a saint. A saint is a true human being.

www.byzantinecatholic.com

CDL
 
thehiddenlife said:
I saw on EWTN last year a woman speaking about a book she had written called Dress With Dignity. I meant to buy it, but have not as yet. She said that she used to dress much more like the popular culture. As I recall she had won beauty contests before her TV carreer. Then she came across studies that demonstrated that even a good man’s eyes tend to go to a woman’s crotch. The more she read, she became convinced that in charity to men she and others would meet, she needed to commit to wearing dresses and skirts instead of pants. Thus she wrote the book. Our daughters need training and good example regarding the fact that men are visually stimulated more than women are. We need to love our brothers in Christ enough to make an effort to be modest. Exactly what that is for a particular woman may differ because of age or body shape. If more closets had 3-way mirrors, I think more women would swear off pants!!! Easter blessings to all.
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I just wanted to add that men are called to dress modestly also and they used to wear gowns. Research shows that women are actually more likely to cheat than men. When I was single I recall going out with new friends, as I had just moved, and it was easy for them to refer to a male’s " tight butt, sexy chest, and or his ‘package’ " So woe to all christians to guard ourselves and each other from tight clothing and revealing our chest with v line. I nor my husband want to stare at this dress at church. Just this past Sunday I had to change my line when going to receive as the Eucharistic Minister had his cross nestled on his hairy chest at nipple line. Not what I wanted to see while on my knees in front of him.My dear husband often complains about how women dress at church. He said sometimes he spends so much time praying that his thoughts remain pure that he doesn’t hear the readings or homily. Modesty and the 10 commandments need to come from the pulpit more often! Joyful in Jesus
 
I am in the process of making my wardrobe more “feminine” in the skirt and dress sense.
As I have been looking at pre-made clothes, I am noticing a lack of items that fit this criteria, so I have been looking into making my own clothes. It’s amazing, to me anyway, how easy it is to change these patterns a little bit, and things are far more modest!
And for some of them that are more lower cut, I have some shirts with the same problem, and I wear camisoles or tank-tops underneath them to take care of that problem!
Here are some examples:
simplicity.com/assets/3877/3877t.jpg
simplicity.com/assets/4074/4074t.jpg
mccallpattern.com/item/M5314.htm?tab=dresses&page=1
mccallpattern.com/item/M5042.htm?tab=dresses&page=2
(skirt)mccallpattern.com/item/M5053.htm?tab=skirts_pants&page=2
(skirt)mccallpattern.com/item/M4783.htm?tab=skirts_pants&page=3
store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/butterick/shop.cgi?s.item.B4849=x&TI=10002&page=2
store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/butterick/shop.cgi?s.item.B4443=x&TI=10002&page=6
store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/butterick/shop.cgi?s.item.B4993=x&TI=10005&page=1
store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/butterick/shop.cgi?s.item.B4686=x&TI=10005&page=2
store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/butterick/shop.cgi?s.item.B3134=x&TI=10005&page=6
mccallpattern.com/item/M5137.htm?tab=dresses&page=2
 
just for the record, Men can dress immodestly too.

Here is an interesting observation:

Has anyone EVER seen an image of the Virgin Mary where Her Blessed head has not been covered? Has anyone ever seen in anything that didn’t cover her Blessed Body up too?
 
Had to share this. I went into my workplace toady (it was my day off) to get the dogs toenails cut. One of the managers that saw I was in my usual skirt and 3/4 sleeves said “I THOUGHT YOU ONLY DRESSED LIKE THAT FOR WORK” LOL. I mostly wear long skirts and long sleeve blouses.
 
i don’t get the statement about pants being immodest because they draw the line to the crotch.
men wear pants, it doesn’t mean they are being immodest because their trousers draw a line to their crotch.
 
thehiddenlife said:
Then she came across studies that demonstrated that even a good man’s eyes tend to go to a woman’s crotch.
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Interesting. Are there institutions that actually performs scientific studies on this sort of thing and can even demonstrate the results?

In Christ - J.M.J.
Mapleoak
 
mapleoak said:
Interesting. Are there institutions that actually performs scientific studies on this sort of thing and can even demonstrate the results?

In Christ - J.M.J.
Mapleoak
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Some studies are a waste of time. Besides, most studies in Social Sciences are biased by the researchers. Since most researchers in this area would wish to emasculate they would come up with some conclusion to do so.

CDL
 
It was record breaking cold for Easter where I live and this is what I wore to church: Black slacks, pink long sleeved shirt, black sweater with embroidery. It was cold in the church (we still haven’t got our heating system up to speed) and I had to keep my coat on. I was neat, modest and comfortable. I am uncomfortable in dresses, and almost always wear modest slacks or jeans. In the summer it gets HOT and HUMID here, and I wear shorts. They not short or tight and I don’t wear them to church.

That’s how I dress and I’m sticking to it.
 
Both my daughter and I wore skirts (well, she wore a dress) to Mass for Easter. And I don’t recall seeing any other women in dresses. Wait, nope, there was one lady in the choir with a very long skirt on.

Anyway- I went to my FHs family’s house for Easter, and only his mom was in a dress. Everyone was complaining how cold it was, but strangely I wasn’t cold in my skirt. Pants make me colder. Probably because they hold the cold air in.
 
As long as you are comfortable. And neat and modest. I’m just happy I kept some of my long sleeved shirts and sweaters out when I put up most of my winter clothes. We had record breaking cold here in Kentucky.
 
fin said:
i don’t get the statement about pants being immodest because they draw the line to the crotch.
men wear pants, it doesn’t mean they are being immodest because their trousers draw a line to their crotch.
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I don’t get it, either. People who hold that view seem to have some sort of double standard that says modesty is important only for women, and not for men, and that women should dress exactly as they did 200 years ago, but men can wear anything. They somehow have themselves convinced that women are not visually stimulated and never notice any portion of mens’ anatomy. If only they knew how wrong they are. What it boils down to is, immodest pants (mens’ and womens’) are immodest, but modest ones are not.

Crazy Internet Junkies Society (Mudgie/Junkie Hybrid)
Carrier of the Angelic Sparkles Sprinkle Bag
 
Modesty is in the good of all. It allows the interaction of both sexes without embarrassment on anyones part.

I want those that I am interacting with is to dress with enough respect for themselves and others so as not to cause others to be embarrassed. Clothing not skin tight, not to short for walking up stairs and to allow others to see your private under-wear, not toooo low cut so that someone has to avert their eyes from the cleavage line. Pants so tight that under-wear lines show or in the case of men other things are outlined. Hips bare to the bottom of a short top and body piercings that are meant to attract the opposite sex.

We all need to remember that there are young girls and boys that have not learned to control their eyes and minds yet in the places we go also. It is our job to protect these children from temptation. Our society;s music, movies, books and other forms of entertainment tend to make sexuality desirable to even the youngest of children. It is our job to protect them from themselves.
 
Yes indeed - I’ve seen way too many men dress like…well they dress like thugs. I am SICK of seeing men with size 30 waists wearing pants with size 50 waists and walking around with their underwear showing. Ick!
 
CarolAnnSFO said:
I don’t get it, either. People who hold that view seem to have some sort of double standard that says modesty is important only for women, and not for men, and that women should dress exactly as they did 200 years ago, but men can wear anything. They somehow have themselves convinced that women are not visually stimulated and never notice any portion of mens’ anatomy. If only they knew how wrong they are. What it boils down to is, immodest pants (mens’ and womens’) are immodest, but modest ones are not.

Crazy Internet Junkies Society (Mudgie/Junkie Hybrid)
Carrier of the Angelic Sparkles Sprinkle Bag
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CarolAnn, thanks for your reply! i’m glad someone understood what I said. 🙂
i mean, if you think about it, the man’s crotch is even more obvious than a woman’s , so how can a woman wearing pants be immodest? i guess that’s what i’m really saying.
 
demolitionman65 said:
My wife and I were discussing this topic last night. Where does the movement for extreme clothing modesty (as in, wearing dresses only, covered from neck to ankles and wrists at all times) come from? Is this a Catholic innovation? If so, my wife and I are unclear on its Scriptural or doctrinal roots.

On the other hand, is this a Puritan innovation, and if so, is it not another manifestation of Manicheaist/Albigensian dualism, claiming that the body is essentially evil?

Finally, let’s say that this is based in dualism (and therefore flawed, as God does not make trash): How modest is too modest, then? How much of the body may be revealed before it also has gone too far.
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I think it comes from a true desire within the person to be holy, but a sin of desparation and lack of trust in God’s ability to heal and change.

Please, everyone, recognize that I speak on this topic with people in my life in mind and not in general. What I have noticed is a very convoluted situation that the person tries to cover up (pardon the pun) with modesty.

This multi-faceted problem has to do with many things.

First: some of the homeschoolers I befriended had a very unCatholic view of women. To them, women were the cause of sin, the thorn in a man’s side. This is the classic “eve is at fault” story.I was told countless times by homeschool mothers that we girls had to stay in a separate room, or wear certain clothes, to protect their sons from our inherently evil selves. The boys in this group were allowed to go on field trips, overnights, even go across the street to play in the gym while the girls had to be under supervision in the cafeteria. Even from women, there was a pervasive attitude that femninity was evil and tended towards sin, that a woman’s body was bad.

Second: along with a lower view of women, many of the people I knew had a pretty radical view of religion in general. They tended towards SSPX and had a disdain for anything that seemed modern. Criticism of the pope was frequent, and of course local bishops and priests would get plenty of attention. More than just having a holier than Catholicism attitude, this facet is important because it came with a huge insecurity.

This is what ties into the third part: desparation or sins against the Holy Spirit. To believe Christ cannot heal you completely, to think that only you can save yourself through your hard work…ironically similar to Lutheran’s undoing. Remember he mentioned that Christ is like snow covering your sinfulness.

Other thoughts on this…those who fall into the pattern of critical modesty usually have a deep, unresolved issue. Their control over the clothing they wear may give them a feeling of control over, say, lustful men, pointing perhaps to past sexual abuse. It can also go the other way, which I have seen as well, where the husband or boyfriend dominates the woman by forcing her to buy into extreme modesty. A dislike of oneself and especially a poor view of sexuality also seem to be a factor. Those who are disgusted by sexuality find themselves hating their bodies and act accordingly.

To those who are impure, all things are impure and to those who are pure, all things are pure.
 
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