Where does extreme clothing modesty come from?

[MysticalMan]

My wife and I were discussing this topic last night. Where does the movement for extreme clothing modesty (as in, wearing dresses only, covered from neck to ankles and wrists at all times) come from? Is this a Catholic innovation? If so, my wife and I are unclear on its Scriptural or doctrinal roots.

On the other hand, is this a Puritan innovation, and if so, is it not another manifestation of Manicheaist/Albigensian dualism, claiming that the body is essentially evil?

Finally, let’s say that this is based in dualism (and therefore flawed, as God does not make trash): How modest is too modest, then? How much of the body may be revealed before it also has gone too far.

Didn’t you hear about the little house on the prairie movement? Yes they are a very powerful subversive group! Im surprised you haven’t heard of them.

 

[Biblioassistant]

First: some of the homeschoolers I befriended had a very unCatholic view of women. To them, women were the cause of sin, the thorn in a man’s side. This is the classic “eve is at fault” story.I was told countless times by homeschool mothers that we girls had to stay in a separate room, or wear certain clothes, to protect their sons from our inherently evil selves. The boys in this group were allowed to go on field trips, overnights, even go across the street to play in the gym while the girls had to be under supervision in the cafeteria. Even from women, there was a pervasive attitude that femninity was evil and tended towards sin, that a woman’s body was bad.

You’re kidding!! I’d expect to see attitudes like that from fundmentalist Muslims. I’m about as orthodox a Catholic as can be, but I’d run far and fast from those kind of people.

 

[hasikelee]

You’re kidding!! I’d expect to see attitudes like that from fundmentalist Muslims. I’m about as orthodox a Catholic as can be, but I’d run far and fast from those kind of people.

I did.

It was all really quite surrealistic. Currently, the archbishop requested this group to complete verification processes so that they could continue using a name associating them with the Catholic church and also to continue holding classes/activities on diocesan property. They steadfastly refused and remain contrary to the archdioceses wishes. But they found a sympathetic/uninformed parish priest that allows them to continue with their organization.

A part of the group left, underwent the process and was approved by the archbishop and is doing quite well, but they are almost an hour away.

 

[mesquite_magic]

A couple of thoughts.

I have always been of the opinion that middle Eastern men of certain groups are perhaps over-sexed. Demanding that your women cover themselves completely from head to toe or someone will lust over them is more than just a bit over the top. Look out, here come the Taliban!

And besides, some of those women, if the law of averages works for them as it does for everyone else, are so ugly they’d have to sneak up on a glass of water to get a drink… lust?

Or maybe I misunderstood them. It wasn’t lust.

It was terror…

Now having offended who knows how many people…

The sin of immodesty is not particularly any more sinful than the sin of pride. An over-reaction to the modesty issue is only a banana peal greased step from pride. It is interesting how little people seem to focus on that sin of pride.

Actually, it’s in the Koran. Women are told to cover their heads out of respect for God (Allah). The Muslim women I’ve spoken to aren’t wearing their head coverings because their husbands/fathers demand it, but because they choose to.Yes, that was suprising to me, too.

On to modest dress. I prefer not to show my belly. After having four children my belly is more likely to be frightening than sexy, LOL. I’m also glad that my 17 y/o daughter chooses to dress pretty modestly and hope my 2 y/o will too.

Modest to me is not flashing cleavage. I live in the desert, so capri’s and shorts are the norm. As long as my behind isn’t hanging out, I feel pretty modest. I work with young children, so skirts are not the best option for me. I do like wearing them to church. That’s one of the few times I can dress up. However, I can’t see myself wearing a head covering. That would feel strange to me.

Kim

 

[Brigadoon]

I frequent another board where quite a few of the protestant variety of these women hang out. Along with the dress comes extreme views on wifely submission, child rearing and the general role of women. There is even debate on whether or not women should be allowed to vote. Much of it can be linked back to the concept that original sin lead to total depravity and child are basically born evil.

I haven’t personally run into this in Catholic circles. In my parish I could do without the halter tops in summer. I am practically the only one who wears a dress. Even our lectors and EMHC’s are wearing t-shirts.

 

[BLB_Oregon]

Actually, it’s in the Koran. Women are told to cover their heads out of respect for God (Allah). The Muslim women I’ve spoken to aren’t wearing their head coverings because their husbands/fathers demand it, but because they choose to.Yes, that was suprising to me, too.

On to modest dress. I prefer not to show my belly. After having four children my belly is more likely to be frightening than sexy, LOL. I’m also glad that my 17 y/o daughter chooses to dress pretty modestly and hope my 2 y/o will too.

Modest to me is not flashing cleavage. I live in the desert, so capri’s and shorts are the norm. As long as my behind isn’t hanging out, I feel pretty modest. I work with young children, so skirts are not the best option for me. I do like wearing them to church. That’s one of the few times I can dress up. However, I can’t see myself wearing a head covering. That would feel strange to me.

Kim

I find the Muslim women who willingly wear the burqa or head scarf quite inspiring, as I do the custom of devout Muslims to drop what they’re doing several times a day when it is time to pray, as Catholics used to do for the bells of the Angelus. For all who serve the God of Abraham with all their hearts, blessings on them for that.

Modest to me is this: If you wouldn’t want it showing if it were wrinkled or unappealing, then don’t show it off when it is young and smooth. Do not use your clothes to call attention to yourself or to enhance your own status, but do not worry if dressing modestly makes you notable simply because it is unusual. When in a solemn place or during a solemn time, dress accordingly. When working or exercising, dress accordingly. Just as you eat to live, rather than live to eat, you should not spend a lot of time and energy over what you are to wear, or worry too much about what others wear who are not under your authority.

When I am an old lady with varicose veins up to there (some of which are already there!), I’ll still wear shorts…but not to church, unless they are essentially as long and as full as a skirt. Male or female, I think it is not compatible with a solemn event to show that much of your leg or to wear attire that looks like you’re intending to participate in a sporting event. But that’s me.

 

[Mintaka]

Re: “Has anyone ever seen Mary in anything that didn’t cover her Blessed Body up too?”

Heh. You haven’t seen any of the countless pictures of Mary nursing Jesus from a bared breast, have you? Or the ones where she’s squirting breast milk into sinners’ mouths, either?

Maria Lactans, those images are called. Our Lady of La Leche is probably the best known example in the US.

fisheaters.com/marialactans.html
A whole page of links and info.

 

[KathleenElsie]

Re: “Has anyone ever seen Mary in anything that didn’t cover her Blessed Body up too?”

Heh. You haven’t seen any of the countless pictures of Mary nursing Jesus from a bared breast, have you? Or the ones where she’s squirting breast milk into sinners’ mouths, either?

Maria Lactans, those images are called. Our Lady of La Leche is probably the best known example in the US.

fisheaters.com/marialactans.html
A whole page of links and info.

Yes and the rest of her body was covered in the process.

What does this have to do with modesty now. Nothing is left to the immigination, husband or self.

 

[mesquite_magic]

Re: “Has anyone ever seen Mary in anything that didn’t cover her Blessed Body up too?”

Heh. You haven’t seen any of the countless pictures of Mary nursing Jesus from a bared breast, have you? Or the ones where she’s squirting breast milk into sinners’ mouths, either?

Maria Lactans, those images are called. Our Lady of La Leche is probably the best known example in the US.

fisheaters.com/marialactans.html
A whole page of links and info.

Thank you for the links. Those are beautiful. I’m not sure what you were trying to say with your statement. To me a breast bared to nurse an infant is totally different than baring cleavage to sell an outfit. Or, for that matter, a car. The next time someone gives me a dirty look for breastfeeding in public, I can refer them to those links

Kim

 

[PatienceAndLove]

I am doing a presentation for my Public Speaking class on Modesty (we have to present on something we see as needing to be changed within society)
I want to ask permission from people to use their comments on this thread.
I will be contacting people personally via PM, but I also wanted to give an overall- “Hey, do y’all mind?”

Thanks and God Bless!

 

[Sandi]

Insecurity.