Where does social justice begin

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elts1956

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The USCCB report regarding Social Justice is ambiguious at best. After reading this example of leadership by our Bishops, many are left with the abosolute belief there are no Intrinsic Evils, no hierarchy of evils, that all moral issues carry the same weight. This attitude had an immense impact on the outcome of this past Presidential election.

Since 2010 is slowly coming into view and being this is an election year for some members of the House, I am personally curious as to whether any attitudes have changed regarding the Truths of the Church as they should be taught.

So I am asking you to rate which issue will be uppermost in your minds as you go to the polls next November to either elect your representatives, or help them retain their governmental seats.
 
You didn’t include this option in the poll. Maybe you did that on purpose?
If justice were served within relationships between persons there would be no need for the state to form courts of law and appoint judges to preside over them. The place justice is supposed to manifest is within the relationship of the persons who have been the cause of and the victim of offense.
 
Sorry, you didn’t allow for multiple answers and I hate being restricted to only one correct answer when so many answers are correct.

Economy
War - (Possibly)
Abortion
Euthanasia or Assisted Suicide
Homosexual marriage
Climate
Embryonic Stem Cell Research
Cloning
Death Penalty <— (I’m almost at the point that I will be 100% opposed to this… almost)
 
I would like for all the Catholic Bishops to start picketing abortion mills. At LEAST once a week. In fact, they could say non-stop Rosaries to end abortion and have their staffs visit them to sign papers and such [normal office functions]. When they need to have staff meetings, they could have them on the picket lines.

And publicly excommunicate Catholic politicians who support abortion.

That would be a good beginning for social justice.

[None of this global warming stuff.]

AND … have you seen that really nice office building occupied by the Conference of Catholic Bishops?

SELL IT!!!

AND GIVE THE MONEY TO THE PRO-LIFE GROUPS.
 
Poverty, access to health care, and racial injustice are my three primary concerns when it comes to social justice. So I couldn’t vote in the poll.
 
Unfortunately many of the items in the poll are not cut and dry. such as the ecconomy. Social justice means more charity and a code of ethics between individual customers and service providers. Unfortunately some see this as purely weath redistribution. With war are you talking about wars of aggression or preparing for self defense or that ambiguous area of self defense on foriegn shores? I’d like us to redirect resources to defense of the nation instead of interfeering with foriegners. Climate is another area where there is a vast array of different perspectives.

I think we need to look at the underlying common denominators based on the commandments we were given.
 
I want it to be law that all elected officials must use the healthcare plan they come up with for the people.
 
I’d certainly put abortion and euthanasia at or near the top of the list, but there is another issue that I think arguably is equal in importance, that isn’t even on the list – basic honesty and trustworthiness (as opposed to corruption).

It does no good to elect candidates who claim to be pro-life, or pro-family, or pro-health care or pro- or anti-anything if they cannot be trusted, or if they base every decision they make and every word they say on which way the political winds are blowing or who is giving them the most campaign donations.

No, I am not saying we have to expect absolute perfection, but we should not be voting for people who tell us what we want to hear (or what they think we want to hear) when their actions repeatedly or consistently do not back them up. It is better IMHO to vote for no one at all or for a third party candidate than to vote for someone who claims to be pro-life but is obviously corrupt or incompetent.
 
Dale_M said:
Poverty, access to health care, and racial injustice are my three primary concerns when it comes to social justice. So I couldn’t vote in the poll.
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I think poverty would come under economy wouldn’t it? Also health care? Sorry I didn’t include Racial Injustice, but that would be one I would also like to see taken care of, but it wouldn’t be my first choice. Thanks for the (name removed by moderator)ut. 🙂
 
Dale_M said:
Poverty, access to health care, and racial injustice are my three primary concerns when it comes to social justice. So I couldn’t vote in the poll.
Click to expand...
Secret_Square said:
I’d certainly put abortion and euthanasia at or near the top of the list, but there is another issue that I think arguably is equal in importance, that isn’t even on the list – basic honesty and trustworthiness (as opposed to corruption).

It does no good to elect candidates who claim to be pro-life, or pro-family, or pro-health care or pro- or anti-anything if they cannot be trusted, or if they base every decision they make and every word they say on which way the political winds are blowing or who is giving them the most campaign donations.

No, I am not saying we have to expect absolute perfection, but we should not be voting for people who tell us what we want to hear (or what they think we want to hear) when their actions repeatedly or consistently do not back them up. It is better IMHO to vote for no one at all or for a third party candidate than to vote for someone who claims to be pro-life but is obviously corrupt or incompetent.
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Yes, that would leave us with some hard choices. I would say throw out both the Dems and Repubs, but we have also been told to vote for the candidate whose values come closest to Church teaching and I am not talking about the economy, but Intrinsic evil and life issues depending on those who are alive to vote.

Thanks for the (name removed by moderator)ut. 🙂
 
fultonfish said:
I would like for all the Catholic Bishops to start picketing abortion mills. At LEAST once a week. In fact, they could say non-stop Rosaries to end abortion and have their staffs visit them to sign papers and such [normal office functions]. When they need to have staff meetings, they could have them on the picket lines.

And publicly excommunicate Catholic politicians who support abortion.

That would be a good beginning for social justice.

[None of this global warming stuff.]

AND … have you seen that really nice office building occupied by the Conference of Catholic Bishops?

SELL IT!!!

AND GIVE THE MONEY TO THE PRO-LIFE GROUPS.
Click to expand...
I think many of our clergy have forgotten the priesthood isn’t a CAREER but a VOCATION.:mad:
 
elts1956 said:
I think poverty would come under economy wouldn’t it? Also health care? Sorry I didn’t include Racial Injustice, but that would be one I would also like to see taken care of, but it wouldn’t be my first choice. Thanks for the (name removed by moderator)ut. 🙂
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Oh, you’re welcome. But, no, I think the selection of “Economy” would be very broad indeed if it encompassed such things as access to health care and the perennial problem of poverty, as opposed to the recent condition of the national economy (which is how I think most people would interpret it.) Then again, it may just be me. :o

If you, or anyone else, were to decide to do a similar poll in the future, perhaps a brief discussion of each of the choices would be helpful.
 
Alleviation of poverty and abortion are my top issues. I’m non-Catholic (though hopefully not much longer!) and Canadian, so I don’t know how much weight my opinion holds. but there it is 🙂
 
Jordan9 said:
Alleviation of poverty and abortion are my top issues. I’m non-Catholic (though hopefully not much longer!) and Canadian, so I don’t know how much weight my opinion holds. but there it is 🙂
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The wording of the issue of poverty is interesting.

In fact, the choice of words is everything.

[There was guy named Sam Shulsky, probably long ago deceased. He had a newspaper column and a radio program about money management. He said the thing that constantly amazed him was that he would get frantic calls from people with an annual income of $250,000 and they were desperate for more income. And then he would get calls from people with an annual income of $2500 and they would ask him for some investment ideas about where to invest their surplus.]

At a time when everyone has a color television, how much poverty is there, really? People live in apartments with holes in the wall, but they lift not one finger to patch the holes [materials cost almost nothing] but they spend money on soda and cigarettes.

Seems to me the real issue is one of personal priorities. We disagree with THEIR priorities and then call them poor.

If I value education and they do not, are they truly poor?
 
royal_archer said:
Unfortunately many of the items in the poll are not cut and dry. such as the ecconomy. Social justice means more charity and a code of ethics between individual customers and service providers. Unfortunately some see this as purely weath redistribution. With war are you talking about wars of aggression or preparing for self defense or that ambiguous area of self defense on foriegn shores? I’d like us to redirect resources to defense of the nation instead of interfeering with foriegners. Climate is another area where there is a vast array of different perspectives.

I think we need to look at the underlying common denominators based on the commandments we were given.
Click to expand...
What are these denominators? Thanks.
 
elts1956 said:
The USCCB report regarding Social Justice is ambiguious at best. After reading this example of leadership by our Bishops, many are left with the abosolute belief there are no Intrinsic Evils, no hierarchy of evils, that all moral issues carry the same weight. This attitude had an immense impact on the outcome of this past Presidential election.
Click to expand...
This has come about due to the “Consistent Life Ethics” and Seamless Garment argument that came from Bernardin, has it not? I, like our departed bishop Martino, will say, “the USCCB doesn’t speak for me!” The term social justice has been distorted to the point where it is unrecognizable. They seem to have completely forgotten solidarity and any common good. Common good now only relates to the “poor” and the political clout they are being given by the radical, left-leaning Alinskyian style community organizing of all the groups the USCCB supports. :mad:
Since 2010 is slowly coming into view and being this is an election year for some members of the House, I am personally curious as to whether any attitudes have changed regarding the Truths of the Church as they should be taught.
Click to expand...
Well, let’s see now. The USCCB supports Obamacare! They support a blanket amnesty regardless of the fact that many blue collar jobs and the poor in America are losing their employment to illegals (especially hard to take with a tanked economy!) They support government control of right wing media outlets. They are against Constitutional civil liberties like the right to bear arms. They support government collectivism BUT have they forgotten that the State in its Almighty Power will also be the arbiter of moral issues. I think they have! Their CCHD openly funds and supports those groups advocating for abortion rights for the poor, same-sex marriage, and the legalization of prostitution! I, for one, will not listen to the USCCB regarding any political statement that bureaucracy makes.

One really wonders these days with all the declarations (NOT Catechesis) coming from them how it relates to the doctrine of indefectibility. Although the statements they make are not binding, those Catholics who lack good prudential judgment will surely be led astray! The truth of the Church will stand, but woe to our bishops!
 
Dale_M said:
Poverty, access to health care, and racial injustice are my three primary concerns when it comes to social justice. So I couldn’t vote in the poll.
Click to expand...
I think I got this from Mother Theresa:

Who is poorer or more homeless than a child scheduled for abortion? He has no voice to speak for himself, but if he could, he would say “I want to LIVE!”

We know for a fact that, if a baby in the womb needs surgery, s/he will fight to live.

Abortion is NOT health care. One cannot be Catholic and also be “pro-choice”.
The only choice offered is death for the unborn child.

Too many of our bishops have sold out to politics. They will be responsible for leading many astray. They need our prayers.

“The greatest destroyer of Peace is abortion.” Mother Theresa
catholic.org/international/international_story.php?id=34602

Mimi
 
Teachings of the Magisterium on Abortion

priestsforlife.org/magisteriumteachings.html

And here is what Bernardin wrote re Seamless Garment approach:

priestsforlife.org/magisterium/bernardinwade.html

I was told by a woman religious (in her 70’s), who does pro-life work, that he said he was wrong about this on his deathbed.

In 2004, “the then Cardinal Ratzinger sent a memo to Cardinal Keeler entitled “Worthiness to receive Holy Communion General principles.” This very important document directly refutes the idiocy of the Seamless Garment principle.”

freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1392184/posts

So it seems to me our Pope has set the record straight. If one dissents/disagrees on this, then one is against the Pope, yes?

Mimi
 
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