Where does the Bible say that Jesus is God? (Split)

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robert_chacon said:
Welcome Seeking,

Its pretty simple I think. We believe what Christ told us the answer to this question through His conversation with the rich young ruler, when the ruler asked the same question you ask. Jesus said, obey the Commandments and follow me. He specifically told the ruler to sell everything first and follow Christ in His mission. We interpret that to define what it really means to make Christ ones Lord and savior. We must be willing to give up our lives in love for Christ our Lord and follow His will. And His will does include following His moral Code, the 10 commandments, as well to hearing His direction for our lives through the discernment of the Holy Spirit’s urgings. This all presupposes a faith in Christ as God and savior. But faith does NOT just mean belief in Christ as God, but rather faithfulness. The Sacraments, devotions and disciplines are all intended to give us the grace to be obedient to Gods will. We may not necessarily be sinless, but with Gods grace, we will continue to seek holiness. And lastly , we believe the Bible when it says . nothing holy will enter heaven. And “holy” does not just mean an “imputed” holiness through Christs death and resurrection, but our own actual holiness merited through Christs grace flowing through us from the sacraments, our prayers and reading of scripture. While we may not be perfectly holy while on earth, we do believe in the ancient belief in a period after death where we are cleansed of all our sins to make us truly holy for heaven. Purgatory is the place where that cleaning happens to people who will go to heaven but are not quite cleansed of all their unholy ways, so that we may become holy as the Christ commands us to be holy to enter heaven. We object to the notion that those who live a sinful life un repentant manner, even if they profess their faith and discipleship of Christ, will have eternal life.
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But where does it say Christ was God? I’m a little confused.
 
You have to understand the Scriptures as a Jew would have understood it.
*And he said to them, “Why are you afraid, O men of little faith?” Then he rose and rebuked the winds and the sea; and there was a great calm. And the men marveled, saying, "What sort of man is this, that even winds and sea obey him?" (Matthew 8:26-27)*The wind and the sea obey only God. This passage would have brought to mind the Psalms.
*For he commanded, and raised the stormy wind,
which lifted up the waves of the sea.
(Psalm 107:27)

Whatever the LORD pleases he does,
in heaven and on earth,
in the seas and all deeps.
He it is who makes the clouds rise at the end of the earth,
who makes lightnings for the rain
and brings forth the wind from his storehouses.
(Psalm 135:6-7)*This is how the Jewish writers wrote, bringing to mind the Old Testament and showing their audience that Jesus is the fulfillment of what was written about. This is how a Jew who read the written Gospel would have heard the Scriptures.

-Tim-

Again, think like a Jew…
*I tell you, something greater than the temple is here. (Matthew 12:6)
*The only thing greater than the temple was God who dwelt in the temple.
*For the Son of man is lord of the sabbath. (Matthew 12:8)*The only one who is lord of the sabbath is God who created the sabbath.

-Tim-

John says it outright.
*In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. … And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth; we have beheld his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father. (John 1:1,14)*God became flesh, lived among the disciples, and they saw him with their eyes.

-Tim-
 
John 20:28:
Then He said to Thomas, “Reach here with your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hand and put it into My side; and do not be unbelieving, but believing.” Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!” Jesus said to him, “Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed.”
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Thomas may have doubted, but he was the first to call Jesus God. Jesus doesn’t rebuke him any way. It’s pretty clear right there.
 
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. 30** I and the Father are one**.”

31 The Jews picked up stones again to stone him. 32 Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you going to stone me?” 33 The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.” 34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’? 35 If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be broken— 36 do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’? 37 If I am not doing the works of my Father, then do not believe me; 38 but if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me and I am in the Father.”
 
John 8:57 So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old and you have seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, before Abraham came to be, I AM.” 59 So they picked up stones to throw at him; but Jesus hid and went out of the temple area.

John 17:5Now glorify me, Father, with you, with the glory that I had with you before the world began.

Peace
 
Mark 14:60 The high priest rose before the assembly and questioned Jesus, saying, “Have you no answer? What are these men testifying against you?” 61 But he was silent and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him and said to him, “Are you the Messiah, the son of the Blessed One?” 62 Then Jesus answered, “I am; and ‘you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of the Power and coming with the clouds of heaven.’” 63 At that the high priest tore his garments and said, “What further need have we of witnesses?

Peace
 
We are told He is God. Mat 1:23 “The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel”–which means, “God with us.”

Titus 2:13 while we wait for the blessed hope–the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,

Jesus claimed to be the “King of the Jews”. Only God is the King of the Jews.
John 19:19,21 Pilate had a notice prepared and fastened to the cross. It read: JESUS OF NAZARETH, THE KING OF THE JEWS. The chief priests of the Jews protested to Pilate, “Do not write ‘The King of the Jews,’ but that this man claimed to be king of the Jews.”

John the Baptist proclaimed in Mat 3:3This is he (Jesus) who was spoken of through the prophet Isaiah:
“A voice of one calling in the desert, ‘Prepare the way for the YHWH, make straight paths for him.’”
He was saying Jehovah Himself was coming!

This is the direct Quote. Is 40:3-5A voice of one calling:
“In the desert prepare the way for the YHWH
make straight in the wilderness a highway for our God. 4Every valley shall be raised up, every mountain and hill made low; the rough ground shall become level, the rugged places a plain. 5And the glory of the YHWH will be revealed, and all mankind together will see it. For the mouth of the YHWH has spoken.”
 
John 8:58: "Before Abraham was, I AM (Gk. ego eimi). Not “I have been” as the JW’s would render in their translation.

I AM is the name God used to identify himself. Why else would the Jews want to stone him right after he said this?
 
From John Chapter 1
**1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. **2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life,1 and the life was the light of men. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness, to bear witness about the light, that all might believe through him. 8 He was not the light, but came to bear witness about the light.
9 The true light, which gives light to everyone, was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him. 11 He came to his own,2 and his own people 3 did not receive him. 12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, the gave the right to become children of God, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us,
 
Also Titus 2:13:
while we wait for the blessed hope - the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ
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Oops - I noticed too late that Jericho beat me to it! I’ve GOT to read more slowly. :o
 
porthos11 said:
John 8:58: "Before Abraham was, I AM (Gk. ego eimi). Not “I have been” as the JW’s would render in their translation.

I AM is the name God used to identify himself. Why else would the Jews want to stone him right after he said this?
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Great point.
Just to elaborate a little:

Exodus 3:13-14
“But,” said Moses to God, “when I go to the Israelites and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ if they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ what am I to tell them?”
God replied, “I am who am.” Then he added, “This is what you shall tell the Israelites: I AM sent me to you.”

To misuse the holy Name of God, I AM, was deserving of death.

Leviticus 24:16
“He who blasphemes the name of the Lord shall be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him”

Jesus revealed that He too is God from all eternity, the Second Person of the Trinity, God the Son, with the proclamation that He too is “I Am.”

**John **8:58 “**Jesus said to them, ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.’ So they took up stones to throw at him … ” **RSV

Jesus is claiming to be God before the creation of Abraham, by His use of God’s Name **“I Am.” **While modern American’s might miss this, it was obvious to the first century Jew that Jesus was claiming to be God. And no good man or prophet would claim that to be if it wasn’t so. Once we accept that Jesus is good it is obvious that He is telling the truth and misleading no one.
 
JohnR77 said:
Great point.
Just to elaborate a little:

Exodus 3:13-14
“But,” said Moses to God, “when I go to the Israelites and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ if they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ what am I to tell them?”
God replied, “I am who am.” Then he added, “This is what you shall tell the Israelites: I AM sent me to you.”

To misuse the holy Name of God, I AM, was deserving of death.

Leviticus 24:16
“He who blasphemes the name of the Lord shall be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him”

Jesus revealed that He too is God from all eternity, the Second Person of the Trinity, God the Son, with the proclamation that He too is “I Am.”

**John **8:58 “Jesus said to them, ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.’ So they took up stones to throw at him … ” RSV

Jesus is claiming to be God before the creation of Abraham, by His use of God’s Name **“I Am.” **While modern American’s might miss this, it was obvious to the first century Jew that Jesus was claiming to be God. And no good man or prophet would claim that to be if it wasn’t so. Once we accept that Jesus is good it is obvious that He is telling the truth and misleading no one.
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Different Bibles translate that differently. For example, the simple English bible translates this as:
“I was alive before Abraham was born.”
 
ChurchSoldier said:
From John Chapter 1
**1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. **2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life,1 and the life was the light of men. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness, to bear witness about the light, that all might believe through him. 8 He was not the light, but came to bear witness about the light.
9 The true light, which gives light to everyone, was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him. 11 He came to his own,2 and his own people 3 did not receive him. 12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, the gave the right to become children of God, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us,
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If the Word was with God, does that imply that the word was God? If you are with someone, you are not the same as the person you are with.
 
Also, there are some texts which are quoted by those who say Jesus was a great prophet, but not equal to God. For example:
  1. 1 Corinthians 8:6
    Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (RSVCE)
    6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.
  2. Mark 15:34: My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
  3. Luke 22:42 - Saying: Father, if thou wilt, remove this chalice from me: but yet not my will, but thine be done.
  4. John 14:28
    You have heard that I said to you: I go away, and I come unto you. If you loved me you would indeed be glad, because I go to the Father: for the Father is greater than I.
 
Tomdstone said:
Different Bibles translate that differently. For example, the simple English bible translates this as:
“I was alive before Abraham was born.”
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That is an inaccurate translation. Simple English for the … If you think like a Jew you would know that Jesus is intentionally using the present tense and intentionally referencing a name of God. They took up stones against him because what he said was to them blasphemy. Blasphemy is a sacrilege of God or His Name or His Character. It is not just merely saying “well I lived before Abraham”, all the Jews would do would be to laugh and leave, not stone him. But did Jesus say no no no you misunderstand I will put this into simple English for you “I was alive before Abraham was born”.
 
Tomdstone said:
If the Word was with God, does that imply that the word was God? If you are with someone, you are not the same as the person you are with.
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No if the Word was with God you are correct in saying that it does not imply that the Word was God. I would suggest you read the next part ot the verse where it explicitly states and the Word was God.
 
Tomdstone said:
If the Word was with God, does that imply that the word was God? If you are with someone, you are not the same as the person you are with.
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Just research Trinitarian Theology. It’s one of the mysteries of 3 unified yet distinctly separate people.
 
ChurchSoldier said:
Just research Trinitarian Theology. It’s one of the mysteries of 3 unified yet distinctly separate people.
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Persons, not people. Big difference.

It is also a FUNDAMENTAL TRUTH of Christianity that Jesus is GOD. If you don’t believe that Jesus is the Incarnate Son of the One God then you are something other than Christian. Perhaps Jewish? Muslim? Jehovah Witness? Mormon? Unitarian? Some of which claim to be Christian, but are not.
 
Darryl_B said:
No if the Word was with God you are correct in saying that it does not imply that the Word was God. I would suggest you read the next part ot the verse where it explicitly states and the Word was God.
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Daryl is exactly correct. It says that the Word was with God and that the Word was God.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (John 1:1)

Verse 14 says that the Word became flesh, took on human form and that they saw him.

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth; we have beheld his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father. (John 1:14)

In his first letter John says that they saw with their eyes and physically touched with their hands the Word that was with God and was God from the beginning of time.

That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon and touched with our hands, concerning the word of life (1 John 1:1)

The Word was God and became flesh, took on human form. He walked upon the earth and the disciples saw him, touched him, heard him and ate with him. What more do we need?

-Tim-
 
hazcompat said:
Mark 14:60 The high priest rose before the assembly and questioned Jesus, saying, “Have you no answer? What are these men testifying against you?” 61 But he was silent and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him and said to him, “Are you the Messiah, the son of the Blessed One?” 62 Then Jesus answered, “I am; and ‘you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of the Power and coming with the clouds of heaven.’” 63 At that the high priest tore his garments and said, “What further need have we of witnesses?

Peace
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Hello you quoted a passage that Jesus clearly says He is the son and will be seated at the right hand of Power(God), do how can He be God?
 
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