Where does the bible say the the Ark of Covenant is?

[petrel]

I personally heard Ron Wyatt describe his adventure going into the cave and he saw the ark of the covenant being guarded by angels. He claims that the blood of Christ flowed down a crack and spilled upon the mercy seat in fulfillment of Dan 9:24 “to anoint the most Holy”. Who would think something like this up?

Either he is an utterly brilliant liar, completely deluded, or telling the truth. I for one believed him, however his story places the crucifixion of Christ in a different place to the traditional site which I also feel quite compelled to believe.

So as you can see I am conflicted on this point.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

Some authorities believe that both sets were encased within the Ark, mind you.

9 There was nothing in the ark except the two tables of stone which Moses put there at Horeb, where the LORD made a covenant with the people of Israel, when they came out of the land of Egypt.

1 Kings 8:9
Sounds like one set to me.

 

[Sonseeahray]

I personally heard Ron Wyatt describe his adventure going into the cave and he saw the ark of the covenant being guarded by angels. He claims that the blood of Christ flowed down a crack and spilled upon the mercy seat in fulfillment of Dan 9:24 “to anoint the most Holy”. Who would think something like this up?

Either he is an utterly brilliant liar, completely deluded, or telling the truth. I for one believed him, however his story places the crucifixion of Christ in a different place to the traditional site which I also feel quite compelled to believe.

So as you can see I am conflicted on this point.

Wyatt’s story makes good reading, but fictional for sure. I’m not sure about his work on the real Sinai, which has been confirmed by others. The problem is that Jesus was crucified on top of the Mount of Olives - just like Zechariah prophesied. He was crucified without the camp - like it says in the book of Hebrews. The camp was defined as a 3,000 foot radius from the front of the Holy of Holies. This covered most of the western side of the Mount of Olives. So Wyatt’s location is all wrong.

Larry

 

[petrel]

Wyatt’s story makes good reading, but fictional for sure. I’m not sure about his work on the real Sinai, which has been confirmed by others. The problem is that Jesus was crucified on top of the Mount of Olives - just like Zechariah prophesied. He was crucified without the camp - like it says in the book of Hebrews. The camp was defined as a 3,000 foot radius from the front of the Holy of Holies. This covered most of the western side of the Mount of Olives. So Wyatt’s location is all wrong.

Larry

Zechariah does not predict the crucifixion of Christ. He prophecies the return of Christ who will land on the Mt. of Olives. This is also alluded to in the book of Acts which describes the Ascension of Christ from the Mt. of Olives with the claim that he would return in like manner.

Also Jesus was crucified close to the city and outside the gate Heb 13 and John 19.
It does not say that he was crucified outside a 3000 foot radius of the Holy of Holies. Where did you get that idea?

 

[patrick457]

Wyatt’s story makes good reading, but fictional for sure. I’m not sure about his work on the real Sinai, which has been confirmed by others. The problem is that Jesus was crucified on top of the Mount of Olives - just like Zechariah prophesied. He was crucified without the camp - like it says in the book of Hebrews. The camp was defined as a 3,000 foot radius from the front of the Holy of Holies. This covered most of the western side of the Mount of Olives. So Wyatt’s location is all wrong.

Larry

Yes, time and again there have been some authors who have proposed the idea that the ‘Golgotha’ of the Gospels could be a location somewhere on the Mount of Olives. James Tabor, author of The Jesus Dynasty, is a recent popular example.

The passage in Hebrews 13 is often used as a main ‘proof’ by supporters of this theory:

We have an altar from which those who serve the tent have no right to eat. For the bodies of those animals whose blood is brought into the holy places by the high priest as a sacrifice for sin are burned outside the camp. So Jesus also suffered outside the gate in order to sanctify the people through his own blood. Therefore let us go to him outside the camp and bear the reproach he endured. For here we have no lasting city, but we seek the city that is to come.

The main problem IMHO with the idea, however, is that it carries with it the assumption that the OT types and regulations should have been literalistically fulfilled in the details of Jesus’ execution. There is nothing to suggest that the fulfilment of prophecy is only valid if the crucifixion occurred in the exact spot of sacrifices in the Mount of Olives (if, indeed, there was an altar there). For one, the author of Hebrews was convinced - and was, in the context of the passage, trying to convince his audience - that Jesus’ death was the fulfillment of the Temple sacrifices as a whole: it also fulfills the cultic sacrifices within the Temple precincts, and His exaltation encapsulates when the High Priest entered the Holy of Holies in the Day of Atonement (Hebrews 9:12, 24; 10:12, etc.), but it is absurd to say that Jesus was crucified or was taken up to heaven within the Temple grounds. (I think this argument also holds for Ron’s idea that Jesus’ blood had to have literally trickled into the lid of the Ark! )

As for Wyatt’s location aka Gordon’s Calvary, it was first proposed in the mid-19th century as an alternative for the traditional location where the Church of the Holy Sepulchre now stands and has since caught on with some Christians (General Charles George Gordon popularized it in 1882-83, hence the name), but its main problem is its lack of concrete historical documentation.

 

[Sonseeahray]

Zechariah does not predict the crucifixion of Christ. He prophecies the return of Christ who will land on the Mt. of Olives. This is also alluded to in the book of Acts which describes the Ascension of Christ from the Mt. of Olives with the claim that he would return in like manner.

He most certainly does. It is found here…

Zech. 14:4 (NASB)
And in that day (What day? -The day of the crucifixion) His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which is in front of Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount of Olives will be split in its middle from east to west by a very large valley, so that half of the mountain will move toward the north and the other half toward the south.

There is nothing about him “landing” or “descending to earth,” but rather his feet stood on top of the Mount of Olives when he was crucified. It’s a highly apocalyptic book. Zechariah prophesied 500 years before the cross. Why would he ignore the first coming in favor of a second (or third coming - as per the Futurists)

Also Jesus was crucified close to the city and outside the gate Heb 13 and John 19. It does not say that he was crucified outside a 3,000 foot radius of the Holy of Holies. Where did you get that idea?

Hebrews 13:11-14 (NASB)
For the bodies of those animals whose blood is brought into the holy place by the high priest as an offering for sin, are burned outside the camp. [12] Therefore Jesus also, that He might sanctify the people through His own blood, suffered outside the gate. [13] Hence, let us go out to Him outside the camp, bearing His reproach. [14] For here we do not have a lasting city, but we are seeking the city which is to come.

The red heifer was sacrificed at the Miphkad alter, which was also outside the camp just as the place of execution was. Should we just ignore the phrase "outside the camp and pretend that it isn’t there? What does it mean then?

Joshua 3:3-4 (NASB)
…and they commanded the people, saying, "When you see the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God with the Levitical priests carrying it, then you shall set out from your place and go after it. [4] “However, there shall be between you and it a distance of about 2,000 cubits by measure. Do not come near it, that you may know the way by which you shall go, for you have not passed this way before.”

The Jews used this dimension taken from the book of Joshua. Any unclean person had to stay 2,000 cubits (3,000 feet) from the Ark of the Covenant. So there were many things just outside of this radius (toward the top of the Mount of Olives.) The Priestly town called Bethpage, the leper colony, the Miphkad alter - used to reburn all of the ashes from the alter of sacrifice in the Temple, The place of execution (Jewish) where they carried out the four punishments for capital offences. Also the place where they took the census called the place of the head or skull. All pilgrams who had come for the feasts were detained there outside of the camp to undergo a week of purification.

 

[patrick457]

He most certainly does. It is found here…

Zech. 14:4 (NASB)
And in that day (What day? -The day of the crucifixion) His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which is in front of Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount of Olives will be split in its middle from east to west by a very large valley, so that half of the mountain will move toward the north and the other half toward the south.

There is nothing about him “landing” or “descending to earth,” but rather his feet stood on top of the Mount of Olives when he was crucified. It’s a highly apocalyptic book. Zechariah prophesied 500 years before the cross. Why would he ignore the first coming in favor of a second (or third coming - as per the Futurists)

Context, man, context.

Lo, a day hath come to Jehovah,
And divided hath been thy spoil in thy midst.

And I have gathered all the nations unto Jerusalem to battle,
And captured hath been the city,
And spoiled have been the houses,
And the women are lain with,
Gone forth hath half the city in a removal,
And the remnant of the people are not cut off from the city.

And gone forth hath Jehovah,
And He hath fought against those nations,
As in the day of His fighting in a day of conflict.

And stood have His feet, in that day,
On the mount of Olives,
That [is] before Jerusalem eastward,
And cleft hath been the mount of Olives at its midst,
To the east, and to the west, a very great valley,
And removed hath the half of the mount towards the north.
And its half towards the south.

And ye have fled [to] the valley of My mountains,
For join doth the valley of the mountains to Azal,
And ye have fled as ye fled before the shaking,
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah,
And come in hath Jehovah my God,
All holy ones [are] with Thee.

And it hath come to pass, in that day,
The precious light is not, it is dense darkness,
And there hath been one day,
It is known to Jehovah, not day nor night,
And it hath been at evening-time – there is light.

And it hath come to pass, in that day,
Go forth do living waters from Jerusalem,
Half of them unto the eastern sea,
And half of them unto the western sea,
In summer and in winter it is.

And Jehovah hath become king over all the land,
In that day there is one Jehovah, and His name one.

Changed is all the land as a plain,
From Gebo to Rimmon, south of Jerusalem,
And she hath been high, and hath dwelt in her place,
Even from the gate of Benjamin
To the place of the first gate, unto the front gate,
And from the tower of Hananeel,
Unto the wine-vats of the king.

And they have dwelt in her,
And destruction is no more,
And Jerusalem hath dwelt confidently.

 

[Sonseeahray]

Context, man, context.

Lo, a day hath come to Jehovah,
And divided hath been thy spoil in thy midst.

And I have gathered all the nations unto Jerusalem to battle,
And captured hath been the city,
And spoiled have been the houses,
And the women are lain with,
Gone forth hath half the city in a removal,
And the remnant of the people are not cut off from the city.

And gone forth hath Jehovah,
And He hath fought against those nations,
As in the day of His fighting in a day of conflict.

And stood have His feet, in that day,
On the mount of Olives,
That [is] before Jerusalem eastward,
And cleft hath been the mount of Olives at its midst,
To the east, and to the west, a very great valley,
And removed hath the half of the mount towards the north.
And its half towards the south.

And ye have fled [to] the valley of My mountains,
For join doth the valley of the mountains to Azal,
And ye have fled as ye fled before the shaking,
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah,
And come in hath Jehovah my God,
All holy ones [are] with Thee.

And it hath come to pass, in that day,
The precious light is not, it is dense darkness,
And there hath been one day,
It is known to Jehovah, not day nor night,
And it hath been at evening-time – there is light.

And it hath come to pass, in that day,
Go forth do living waters from Jerusalem,
Half of them unto the eastern sea,
And half of them unto the western sea,
In summer and in winter it is.

And Jehovah hath become king over all the land,
In that day there is one Jehovah, and His name one.

Changed is all the land as a plain,
From Gebo to Rimmon, south of Jerusalem,
And she hath been high, and hath dwelt in her place,
Even from the gate of Benjamin
To the place of the first gate, unto the front gate,
And from the tower of Hananeel,
Unto the wine-vats of the king.

And they have dwelt in her,
And destruction is no more,
And Jerusalem hath dwelt confidently.

What I wrote is in context.

 

[petrel]

He most certainly does. It is found here…

Zech. 14:4 (NASB)
And in that day (What day? -The day of the crucifixion) His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which is in front of Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount of Olives will be split in its middle from east to west by a very large valley, so that half of the mountain will move toward the north and the other half toward the south.

There is nothing about him “landing” or “descending to earth,” but rather his feet stood on top of the Mount of Olives when he was crucified. It’s a highly apocalyptic book. Zechariah prophesied 500 years before the cross. Why would he ignore the first coming in favor of a second (or third coming - as per the Futurists)

Was the mount of Olives split in two at the time of the Crucifixion? Of course not. Your notion is prepostorous. Is there a great valley going through the middle of the Mt. of Olives? No there is not, therefore this prophecy was not fulfilled at the time of Christ’s crucifixion.
You correctly perceive that the book is apocalyptic which means that it pertains to the last days, the Day of the Lord, the Day of the Judgement of the nations. This is clearly stated in Zech 14:3Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
At the time of the crucifixion the Lord did not fight, in fact he rebuked Peter for drawing the sword and cutting of the guards ear. Therefore these passages must relate to a future time.

You seem to be deriding the idea of Jesus descending to earth and “landing”. Well he “took off did he not?” From the Mt. of Olives. “Ascending into the clouds”. And the angels said that in like manner as he had ascended, so he would return.
Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Therefore if he ascended from the Mt. of Olives then it follows that he must descend onto the Mt. of Olives to fulfill the message of the angel.
here is the passage in Acts 1
“Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.”

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Hebrews 13:11-14 (NASB)
For the bodies of those animals whose blood is brought into the holy place by the high priest as an offering for sin, are burned outside the camp. [12] Therefore Jesus also, that He might sanctify the people through His own blood, suffered outside the gate. [13] Hence, let us go out to Him outside the camp, bearing His reproach. [14] For here we do not have a lasting city, but we are seeking the city which is to come.

The red heifer was sacrificed at the Miphkad alter, which was also outside the camp just as the place of execution was. Should we just ignore the phrase "outside the camp and pretend that it isn’t there? What does it mean then?

Joshua 3:3-4 (NASB)
…and they commanded the people, saying, "When you see the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God with the Levitical priests carrying it, then you shall set out from your place and go after it. [4] “However, there shall be between you and it a distance of about 2,000 cubits by measure. Do not come near it, that you may know the way by which you shall go, for you have not passed this way before.”

The Jews used this dimension taken from the book of Joshua. Any unclean person had to stay 2,000 cubits (3,000 feet) from the Ark of the Covenant. So there were many things just outside of this radius (toward the top of the Mount of Olives.) The Priestly town called Bethpage, the leper colony, the Miphkad alter - used to reburn all of the ashes from the alter of sacrifice in the Temple, The place of execution (Jewish) where they carried out the four punishments for capital offences. Also the place where they took the census called the place of the head or skull. All pilgrams who had come for the feasts were detained there outside of the camp to undergo a week of purification.

I think you are confused and have it all backwards. The camp was supposed to be outside a 3000 foot radius of the ark of the covenant. This passage has nothing to do with a measurement of 3000 feet. Besides the passages which relate to the crucifixion of the Lord do not say “outside the camp”. They say “outside the gate” and “close to the city”. Even if you want to bring in the red heifer analogy then “outside the camp” also applies. But again there is nothing which says that the red heifer must be killed 3000 feet outside the camp.

Besides, the Mt. of Olives is far more than 3000 feet from the Old City. It’s at least two kilometres away and can hardly be said to be “close to the city”