Where does the Church believe non-christians will go in the after life?

[PJM]

=wcknight;9349006]"
And according to Catholic doctrine one is bound to follow an erroneous conscience. "

It makes you wonder what happens to these suicide bombers ?? You have to be pretty well convinced that you are doing the right thing, when you strap a bunch of exposives to yourself and take out a bunch of folks with you.

Can their defense be, “I was just following my erroneous conscience” ???

okay here’s your 55 virgins…

PERHAPS? BUT!

The Obligation to HAVE a properly informed conscience is a GRAVE one

Catechism #846;#847

God Bless,
pat/PJM

 

[gentle_atheist]

"
And according to Catholic doctrine one is bound to follow an erroneous conscience. "

It makes you wonder what happens to these suicide bombers ?? You have to be pretty well convinced that you are doing the right thing, when you strap a bunch of exposives to yourself and take out a bunch of folks with you.

Can their defense be, “I was just following my erroneous conscience” ???

okay here’s your 55 virgins…

Excellent point! But I always thought that it was 72 virgins. Then I looked it up.

 

[JaKael02]

Excellent point! But I always thought that it was 72 virgins. Then I looked it up.

Gentle -

Is their 1 thing that irks you most about Christians, Christianity, or Catholicism? Or do you have respect for, but just do not believe?

Thank you for any consideration to my question.

James

 

[gentle_atheist]

Gentle -

Is their 1 thing that irks you most about Christians, Christianity, or Catholicism? Or do you have respect for, but just do not believe?

Thank you for any consideration to my question.

James

I am a cradle Catholic turned atheist. I still have a soft spot in my heart for the Catholic Church. But this “I’m OK, you’re OK” ecumenism that started with Vatican 2 – and is exemplified by Vouthon’s posts – destroyed my faith.

The Catholic Church needs a pope who will strengthen Catholics in the Catholic faith instead of strengthening Protestants, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, etc. in their respective faiths.

 

[JaKael02]

I am a cradle Catholic turned atheist. I still have a soft spot in my heart for the Catholic Church. But this “I’m OK, you’re OK” ecumenism that started with Vatican 2 – and is exemplified by Vouthon’s posts – destroyed my faith.

The Catholic Church needs a pope who will strengthen Catholics in the Catholic faith instead of strengthening Protestants, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, etc. in their respective faiths.

We have something in common - frustration. I don’t think there is a Catholic on the plant happy with the way things have been going.

Your response sounded more Non-Catholic rather than Non-God believing. I’m sure I’m mistaken though.

On the flip-side, the Pope sends out frequent messages in his attempt to strengthen the Church. No body reads or listens. Media sure ignores it. Shame on us, in my opinion, rather than shame on him.

Glad you join us in this forum. You keep things interesting.

James

 

[PumpkinSeed]

We have something in common - frustration. I don’t think there is a Catholic on the plant happy with the way things have been going.

Your response sounded more Non-Catholic rather than Non-God believing. I’m sure I’m mistaken though.

On the flip-side, the Pope sends out frequent messages in his attempt to strengthen the Church. No body reads or listens. Media sure ignores it. Shame on us, in my opinion, rather than shame on him.

Glad you join us in this forum. You keep things interesting.

James

Well, that’s true. When I turn on the TV I see more ‘breaking news’ on Kim Kardashian’s new implants than I have ever seen the Pope making an announcement.

Really, it is quite sad though.

 

[Vouthon]

I am a cradle Catholic turned atheist. I still have a soft spot in my heart for the Catholic Church. But this “I’m OK, you’re OK” ecumenism that started with Vatican 2 – and is exemplified by Vouthon’s posts – destroyed my faith.

The Catholic Church needs a pope who will strengthen Catholics in the Catholic faith instead of strengthening Protestants, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, etc. in their respective faiths.

My dear brother gentle

Peace to you.

I am sorry that the kind of “ecumenism” exemplified by my posts destroyed your faith, however I must explain to you that Vatican II neither began anything nor changed anything about Catholicism. Most of my quotes, on various threads, are derived from documents prior to Vatican II, many even centuries before.

I cannot change the teachings of the Church. They are what they are.

I am sorry that you seem to have reached the belief that Vatican II changed the teachings of the Catholic faith. It didn’t.

I am rather saddened by the fact that there are still Catholics who think that all non-Catholics are damned or near close to damned and that all other religions and belief systems are not worthy of recognition or respect. Especially given that such views are not endorsed by Holy Mother Church.

I am also curious as to why (apparently) you would prefer that the Church not be respectful towards people of other faiths and not teach that it is possible for people bodily outside the Church to be spirtually members? What is so wrong with this so as to destroy your faith?

 

[gentle_atheist]

We have something in common - frustration. I don’t think there is a Catholic on the plant happy with the way things have been going.

Your response sounded more Non-Catholic rather than Non-God believing. I’m sure I’m mistaken though.

I don’t like being an atheist but, yeah, I am. Once I lost my faith in the Catholic Church I lost my faith, period.

On the flip-side, the Pope sends out frequent messages in his attempt to strengthen the Church. No body reads or listens. Media sure ignores it. Shame on us, in my opinion, rather than shame on him.

Thank God (can an atheist use that expression?) B16 has not been so enamored with attention-grabbing novelties as JP2 was.

Glad you join us in this forum. You keep things interesting.

James

That’s very kind of you! Thanks!

 

[gentle_atheist]

My dear brother gentle

Peace to you.

I am sorry that the kind of “ecumenism” exemplified by my posts destroyed your faith, however I must explain to you that Vatican II neither began anything nor changed anything about Catholicism. Most of my quotes, on various threads, are derived from documents prior to Vatican II, many even centuries before.

I cannot change the teachings of the Church. They are what they are.

I am sorry that you seem to have reached the belief that Vatican II changed the teachings of the Catholic faith. It didn’t.

I am rather saddened by the fact that there are still Catholics who think that all non-Catholics are damned or near close to damned and that all other religions and belief systems are not worthy of recognition or respect. Especially given that such views are not endorsed by Holy Mother Church.

I am also curious as to why (apparently) you would prefer that the Church not be respectful towards people of other faiths and not teach that it is possible for people bodily outside the Church to be spirtually members? What is so wrong with this so as to destroy your faith?

I’m too upset with you right now to give you a coherent respoonse.

 

[wcknight]

Excellent point! But I always thought that it was 72 virgins. Then I looked it up.

I just picked a number out of the air… I had no idea whether it was right or wrong… it must have been divine inspiration…

Interesting, that there is sexual discrimination even among suicide bombers… it almost makes you want to pull up stakes and join some other terrorist group. .

 

[Vouthon]

I’m too upset with you right now to give you a coherent respoonse.

Well I will remember you in my prayers tonight. I ask God to grant you the grace to be realeased from this grief I have (for some reason) caused in your heart, and I ask from you forgiveness for whatever I have said or done (unwittingly) that has resulted in your sadness.

Much love in Christ to you my dear brother and please don’t be sad.

 

[ebonykawai]

I am a cradle Catholic turned atheist. I still have a soft spot in my heart for the Catholic Church. But this “I’m OK, you’re OK” ecumenism that started with Vatican 2 – and is exemplified by Vouthon’s posts – destroyed my faith.

The Catholic Church needs a pope who will strengthen Catholics in the Catholic faith instead of strengthening Protestants, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, etc. in their respective faiths.

So you don’t believe in freedom of religion? Interesting coming from an atheist.

 

[ebonykawai]

I’m too upset with you right now to give you a coherent respoonse.

This makes no sense. I cannot see unbridled anger as a legitimate response to anything said in this thread. I too hope you find peace in your life. You seems to be more of an angry ex-Catholic than an atheist, if I do say so myself.

 

[PumpkinSeed]

This makes no sense. I cannot see unbridled anger as a legitimate response to anything said in this thread. I too hope you find peace in your life. You seems to be more of an angry ex-Catholic than an atheist, if I do say so myself.

I’m not sure gentle atheist was even being ‘for real’.

I don’t know what he has to be mad at. I guess some people are sensitive

 

[Rabbity]

gentle atheist, speaking as a lifelong atheist who is firm and happy with my worldview, seems to me that you still hold some manner of catholic beliefs. You’re angry and upset about things that should be generally irrelevant to us; aside from curiosity or academic interest, why would we atheists truly care whether the mass is said in Latin or if JP2 engaged in allegedly attention-seeking antics?

Are you hoping things would “go back to the way they were” and then you’d regain your faith and become a catholic again? If so I think you’re in for a long wait and in the meantime it’s going to eat you alive.

For you own sanity I suggest making some kind of peace with Vatican II and either go back to the church or make a clean break. I know it’s a complicated process and won’t happen overnight but it sounds to me like you’re spinning your mental wheels and if you don’t make a little progress in one direction or another you’re just going to make yourself sick.

Best wishes.

 

[JaKael02]

Well, that’s true. When I turn on the TV I see more ‘breaking news’ on Kim Kardashian’s new implants than I have ever seen the Pope making an announcement.

Really, it is quite sad though.

Agree 100%. Pretty much only dedicated Catholic News services follow the Pope’s comments and actions.

Great source to hear what our Pope’s up to:
catholicculture.org/news/

So most believe he is doing nothing because they never hear of it. So he gets blamed for ‘inaction’. But if he acts loud enough, typically mainstream distorts.

Take care,

james

 

[JaKael02]

Well I will remember you in my prayers tonight. I ask God to grant you the grace to be realeased from this grief I have (for some reason) caused in your heart, and I ask from you forgiveness for whatever I have said or done (unwittingly) that has resulted in your sadness.

Much love in Christ to you my dear brother and please don’t be sad.

To be blunt, don’t atheist hate to be told they will be “prayed for”?

 

[Vouthon]

To be blunt, don’t atheist hate to be told they will be “prayed for”?

I wouldn’t know to be honest. I should think that no one would be outraged or irritated by another thinking about them in a positive way. I merely said that I hope the he is released from his grief, and will pray accordingly

 

[JaKael02]

gentle atheist, speaking as a lifelong atheist who is firm and happy with my worldview, seems to me that you still hold some manner of catholic beliefs. You’re angry and upset about things that should be generally irrelevant to us; aside from curiosity or academic interest, why would we atheists truly care whether the mass is said in Latin or if JP2 engaged in allegedly attention-seeking antics?

Are you hoping things would “go back to the way they were” and then you’d regain your faith and become a catholic again? If so I think you’re in for a long wait and in the meantime it’s going to eat you alive.

For you own sanity I suggest making some kind of peace with Vatican II and either go back to the church or make a clean break. I know it’s a complicated process and won’t happen overnight but it sounds to me like you’re spinning your mental wheels and if you don’t make a little progress in one direction or another you’re just going to make yourself sick.

Best wishes.

From atheist to atheist…that sounds like good advice.

Rabbity - glad you joined this forum too. Atheist make this discussion deeper and force us Christians to provide a reasonable and faithful response to the hope that lives inside us.

I hope we both obtain fruit from one another.

Keep posting!

Kind Regards,

James

 

[JaKael02]

I wouldn’t know to be honest. I should think that no one would be outraged or irritated by another thinking about them in a positive way. I merely said that I hope the he is released from his grief, and will pray accordingly

You did no wrong. Just my impression is they don’t want to know if Christians are “praying for them”.

My impression could be wrong.

Regards,

James